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woj81

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Can we stop banning people just because they want to play on NeoGK siege sometimes with catapults and katanas? The cases of GrafBlade and Anubis are hilarious. My member gets a ban for seeing the enemy classes on the scoreboard in river village when everybody knows that in River Village you can see the enemy team in like 10 seconds. The community is small enough without banning people for little reason.
 
woj81 said:
Can we stop banning people just because they want to play on NeoGK siege sometimes with catapults and katanas? The cases of GrafBlade and Anubis are hilarious. My member gets a ban for seeing the enemy classes on the scoreboard in river village when everybody knows that in River Village you can see the enemy team in like 10 seconds. The community is small enough without banning people for little reason.

Same with Cr3a not er3a or whatever that name was. Most ridiculous ban. Even WoL the enemy team agreed and didn't want us to forfeit rounds to them.
 
Totally agree with Woj. I have spoken with Scar, he told me that he didnt want to ban Anu, because he is smart guy and he agree that is a really stupid reason. On video is clearly shown that Anu doesn't use any mod features. What's the point in banning a guy just because he forgot to disable mod for one time? I've talked with Anubis and he won"t do this again.
 
I'll try to explain how the decisions were made, you can judge for yourselves whether it was right or wrong. Let me start by saying though that nobody in the administration believes that either player installed the modification with the intention of cheating. We are aware it is a modification used by quite a lot of players because of the corresponding siege server. That being said, our rules lay out a clear definition of what is considered cheating:

§ 2 I said:
It is strictly prohibited to gain an advantage by modifying texture files or using game modifications such as aimbots or autoblock. Every player that is found to have modified texture files or using game modifications will be banned from the tournament. Exceptions from this rule are listed in Appendix A.

The part that applies in both cases is "gain an advantage by modifying texture files". By adding the option to show the class setup of the enemy team, the modification obviously does modify game files in a way that it gives players using the module an advantage that players who are not using the module do not have.

The rules does not take into account whether the available information was actually used or not, neither does it take into account the intentions of the player. Why you may ask, because this is what your complaint are mainly based on. The main reason, as we have already lined out in the case of GrafBlade, is an issue of trust. The main source of information to judge these kind of potential offenses are screenshots. But when you are looking at those screenshots, you cannot tell whether the information was actually used or not, and you also cannot tell what the players intentions were when using these modifications. Obviously we could speak to the players, but they could be lying to us. Any cheater who uses modifications with the intention of cheating will tell you it was an accident when you ask him. No cheater would be truthful and say he did use those modifications in order to cheat, because he has no incentive to do so.

So, there is no way for the administration to decide whether information was used or not, and also whether the intention behind using said modifications was cheating or something else. Therefore it seems unreasonable for us to put these aspects into the rule, as it leaves the door wide open for abuse from the side of the administration.

Example: Let's say player A was found out to be using modified game files, but it was actually an accident and he didn't want to use them, he just forgot to change the module. The administration looks into the case and after speaking to the player and his teammates, comes to the conclusion that he actually didn't want to cheat and let's him get away. Then player B is caught using modifications as well, and he actually wanted to cheat. Again the administration speak to him and his teammates, and this time they come to the conclusion that he wanted to cheat. Player B is angry about it, obviously, and calls the administration biased, afterall they let player A get away after he had told them that is was an accident, why didn't they do the same for player B?

How are we supposed to react to such accusations of bias? I don't think we can at all, I can only argue that I think I know what the players intentions were, I don't know though. In an even worse scenario, player B could be so charming when talking to the administration that they fall for him and actually believe he didn't want to cheat (even though it was his intention) and let him get away as well. In either case we end up with a bad situation for both the tournament and the administration, which is why we did not include these two aspects that your complaints are based on in the rule.

We are only checking whether the modification does provide the player with an advantage that players without the modification do not have. In the case of the NeoGK mod, the ability to see the class setup of your opponent at the press of Tab is such an advantage that others without the module don't have, that's not debatable.

We know this may cause frustration when we also have to suspend players who actually did not want to cheat, but it is the only way for us to ensure we can ban players when they did want to cheat at this point with the evidence we have to judge these cases. Nobody in the administration has any joy banning players from the tournament, if it was up to we would have a clean tournament without any incidents of this sort, it means more enjoyment for the teams and less work for us. All we can do is try to be as transparent as possible.

I hope you can at least understand why we feel like we had to proceed as we did. Again, it's for the better of the community and its tournaments in general, not because we enjoy banning players.
 
I understand the reasoning behind it all. However, why do the rules state a full suspension from the rest of the tournament. Instead of a more fair and just, warning or 1 match suspension with scores being altered and full ban if any offence occurs again.

With strong evidence pointing to the contrary of not cheating for both anubis and crea and the decisions made in both cases not to alter the scores of the matches it seems rather over the top to ban players permanently from playing in the tournament.

In addition to the fact the offence itself is a rather minor offence, (I don't care if you want to cry about it being a massive advantage teams like WoL did not want the score to be altered because even though they lost they believe it not to be worth changing the scores for.)

I will conclude on that banning players outright for such offences is outright strange and unfair just because some people in this game cheat does not mean those that don't should also be banned because they "might be" this is a terrible mentality which only bodes arguments like this one. Each case should be judged and fairly acted upon with complete discretion to the organisers, blanket bans are simply stupid.

My condolences for upsetting anyone. Thank you to the organisers for WNL and their time.

 
I mean it's simple, if they've done it once, they can do it again. Next time it will be harder as they wont publish screenshots, if they end up with a one match ban, that'll encourage other people to use it to their team's advantage due to it being only a 'minor offence'. I mean if I knew AE's setups, I'm sure that'll give my team the advantage when it comes to picking classes for next time.
 
Fietta said:
I mean it's simple, if they've done it once, they can do it again. Next time it will be harder as they wont publish screenshots.

Anyone can cheat Fietta lol it matters who actually cheats and who left tg arena mod on before a match. Not everyone takes it so seriously as you, some people are here just to have fun and are very new players to the game have some consideration to newer players please.

Edit: also just lol at that comment about AE setup when you have spec cam which can see whole spawn on river village. Besides if someone used it just alter the scores of the match? It doesn't encourage anything.

How many people have been perma banned when not cheating so far this WNL, 2. How many have been proven cheating and banned 0.
 
The rules on cheating were clear from the start and you could have decided to not sign up if you do not agree with them (assuming you read them :shifty:). You only find it stupid now that you are affected by this rule; I personally do not find it stupid.

I get that you want your player unbanned but it is not going to happen. Unbanning your player means we can pretty much dump the cheating rule in the garbage, in which case there's no reason for me to not join the aimbot legion.
 
Watly said:
The rules on cheating were clear from the start and you could have decided to not sign up if you do not agree with them (assuming you read them :shifty:). You only find it stupid now that you are affected by this rule; I personally do not find it stupid.

I get that you want your player unbanned but it is not going to happen. Unbanning your player means we can pretty much dump the cheating rule in the garbage, in which case there's no reason for me to not join the aimbot legion.
You clearly didn't bother to read anything I said. *sigh*


Surkan said:
lol ur actually arguing for cheaters to be unbanned
who didnt know anubis was cheating anyway? its nothing new

How am I arguing cheaters to be unbanned when they did not cheat. It was proven by Anubis, deacon said himself


The recordings send by Anubis support his claim that he did not use the additional information available to him. Even though he could have scouted his opponents class setup by the press of a button, Anubis played what is considered normally by our standards and actively looked to scout his opponents class setup by moving closer to them putting himself at risk of being shot.


Are you serious or what?

He is still perma banned tho lol.




this tournament is a epic jock, i have never see cela. So many bull**** ruls on one tourny "use mod ban" plz if me and others players want play for this tourny or others tourny he must could... i want win this tourny or just play with this tourny it's my law. For Connacht watly i know you hate me but you say i cant play because i will comeback in tourny after and ? This Rule is not in official rules so i can i was in connacht since 7 days i'm in rule. You say at deacon you have log when i say i will come back in tourny after but you never wanted give the logs it's maybe just because you dont have log and you dont want just new players to come play game ?  with good dreal players in, it's just crazy me and my friends was in rul and your "ban all cuz we dont know who cheating lol everyone is cheating lol" is outside of rul and outside of your ruls i was in rule but not you it's just rejection perssonel.

 
If you want to get him unbanned, I think arguing about rules is clearly not the way. Its already 7th edition of WNL, with 31 teams gathered, do this proves everything is working fine. Im sure none would want to ban players, but its about
keeping the rules, without it rules wouldnt make sense. However being rageous wont help the case. If mods would agree you could make statement that if that happens again or will be proved that he used it purposely you just resign or something like this. It would prove that all your team is sure he wouldnt cheat.
That's one of thing I think might help getting him back. You must understand its hard for judges to deal with cases like this.

I believe that he didnt used it purposely, because he wouldnt post screenshots them (cheaters would be aware what they are doing and would try to hide it)

Just remeber to not argue, but think about the solutions to keep rules and get your friend back
 
Ok - there was literally the same issue with GrafBlade (?) a few Tournaments ago where he forgot to change the mod and played with the same thing in a match. It is a known issue, if you forget to run a proper module for the match you're stupid.
Normally you're not able to tell who used it for the teams advantage and who didn't. If you have a recording you can sonewhat prove that you didn't use it to actively cheat, but it's still against the ruleset to be using it. If you forgot to switch or thought you'd get away with it is never certain.
Especially in anubis case i don't get how you can forget that you're running a mod like that after all the cheating **** in the past. For a new Player from NW it's a different story but you can't really punish one guy for using it and let another one off.

It's entirely their own fault for breaking the rules. I mean i can be running warband with aimbot too, record my match and have evidence of me never actually using it and I'll still get banned.
 
There was a very similiar situation with Odin. The guy would be using wallhack outside the tournament, but never actually cheated in the match, as he only played inf and had it recorded. Permbanned, no scores adjusted, nobody complained.

It may seem unfair in the first place, but what you are asking for is "hey, can we just not apply the rules this time?". If we don't apply them this time, any other case of players not following them is going to be harder to solve. Law is law, we gotta stick to it in order to have a good quality competition. I would be dissapointed if no punishment was given, that would mean we all can spy on the other team's classes as long as we can be charming enough to convince admins we didn't mean to gain an advantage.

You should be happy that no scores were adjusted, coz the decision that's been made is already very lenient.
 
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