Spears/polearms in the Late Middle Ages

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dstemmer

dstemmer

Knight at Arms
I'm working on a mod set in a time period similar to the Late Middle Ages in Europe, and I'd like some advice in regards to polearm weapons - specifically, how long they should be. The lengths in Native seem way off, so I'm trying to get some more accurate measurements. I need the length of:

- a spear (for your average peasant infantryman)
- a pike (for more professional troops)
- a lance (for knights/heavy cavalry)
- a halberd

I know that all of this depends exactly on which part of Europe you're talking about, but I'd just like some rough estimates. The pike is especially hard for me to decide on, since I've read that pike weapons can range anywhere from 10 to 22 ft. Thanks in advance for the help.
 
A good seven foot spear is all the spear you'll ever need.  In fact, if you want to fight with a spear -as opposed to just poking with it (at food or in battle)- seven feet is actually a bit too long.  Six is good, and five is just wicked but it starts not being a spear anymore at that length.  So for a spear like any huntsman -irrespecive of coarse or gentle brith- seven feet is good.

A twelve foot spear is a weapon for mass infantry, OR for the highly trained.  It's long enough that you can't just pick it up and have any hope of hitting anything with it, but it's still stiff and stout enough that hose who can are friggiing deadly.  The lowland scots used 12 foot spears in their schiltrons.

A fifteen foot pike or any longer weapon is only useful in mass formations.  It has no other purpose, and can't be used for anything else.  You could kill someone with a 20 foot pike -if you got them to stand still, and if you tied their arms back, and if you were able to aim the sucker while it wasn't wobbling.  :???:


As for lances, between eight and twelve feet total.  Eight footers were used for war, but I don't know that twelves ever were. 

Oh, right, and halberds.  Between five and eight.  I think six is a right fine length, I think I get more power out of it at that lenght. But, if you plan of fighting along side spears or pike and using the thing for thrusting, you might well want a seven or eight.  You'll notice that the spear is shorter than the halberd.  That's because you hold a spear with your back hand on or close to the butt of the spear, and the front hand about three feet up -giving you three or four feet in front of you on a long lever.  A halbard though is more like a quarterstaff, using the longer queue along with the heavy bladed head.
 
Destichado said:
A good seven foot spear is all the spear you'll ever need.  In fact, if you want to fight with a spear -as opposed to just poking with it (at food or in battle)- seven feet is actually a bit too long.  Six is good, and five is just wicked but it starts not being a spear anymore at that length.  So for a spear like any huntsman -irrespecive of coarse or gentle brith- seven feet is good.

A twelve foot spear is a weapon for mass infantry, OR for the highly trained.  It's long enough that you can't just pick it up and have any hope of hitting anything with it, but it's still stiff and stout enough that hose who can are friggiing deadly.  The lowland scots used 12 foot spears in their schiltrons.

A fifteen foot pike or any longer weapon is only useful in mass formations.  It has no other purpose, and can't be used for anything else.  You could kill someone with a 20 foot pike -if you got them to stand still, and if you tied their arms back, and if you were able to aim the sucker while it wasn't wobbling.   :???:





As for lances, between eight and twelve feet total.  Eight footers were used for war, but I don't know that twelves ever were. 

Oh, right, and halberds.  Between five and eight.  I think six is a right fine length, I think I get more power out of it at that lenght. But, if you plan of fighting along side spears or pike and using the thing for thrusting, you might well want a seven or eight.  You'll notice that the spear is shorter than the halberd.  That's because you hold a spear with your back hand on or close to the butt of the spear, and the front hand about three feet up -giving you three or four feet in front of you on a long lever.  A halbard though is more like a quarterstaff, using the longer queue along with the heavy bladed head.
Click to expand...

Dont forget Partyzana.
A wapon wich was used by military officers in 16-18 century.Here is a picture of it its not full picture but its only its upper part the lower part is only wooden handle like on halberd.
Here is a picture:
partyzana.jpg

 
And that is not a functional weapon. 

I have NEVER seen an axe-head partizan that wasn't ceremonial.  Not that one doesn't exist, but I've never seen one.  And I've seen a pretty respectable number of original pole-weapons.
 
Destichado said:
And that is not a functional weapon. 

I have NEVER seen an axe-head partizan that wasn't ceremonial.  Not that one doesn't exist, but I've never seen one.  And I've seen a pretty respectable number of original pole-weapons.
Click to expand...
I said it was used by 16-18 century officers. I actually didnt seen it in battle too maybe it was only a demonstration of officers power or it could be really used in battle.
 
Officer's spontoons, partisans and halbards in better part of that period were more for dressing ranks and jabbing courage into the cowardly than they were for combat.  And being officer's weapons -or, more usually, *sergent's* weapons- they were highly decorated.  Thus, the use of partisans and halbards, because they had lots of "face" to engrave, inlay or scuplt in relief.  Early 16th century polearms were still very much practical weapons, but that's not an early 16th century polearm.

Like I say, I'm not saying axe-head partizans were never battlefield weapons, but I've never seen one.  I prefer the classic, three-tongued version myself.
 
There was another weapon used I would guess around 1400s-1500s, probably even earlier as well. It was only like 4 feet long and was basically a mini polearm. Had a hammer for bashing people and armor on one side of the head and a point on the back and bottom I think.... I just can't remember the name :S  Saw it on Conquest where the had a makeshift tournament.

Oh, and sorry for kinds switching the topic.

Oh, and if you were trying to put in weapons from that period you could try putting in the hand cannon or arqeubus (sp?). Granted it wouldn't be too worthwhile, hehe.
 
I think you're right.  Another thing one could go for is basically a sledgehammer. If i remember correctly there was a large group of hungarian peasents that thoroughly beat an army of knights by essentially bashing them back and forth until the armor was broken and falling off. Their weapons might've had some spikes on the head as well for some more pain causation....  All I can say is 'ouchies'
 
Ezias said:
There was another weapon used I would guess around 1400s-1500s, probably even earlier as well. It was only like 4 feet long and was basically a mini polearm. Had a hammer for bashing people and armor on one side of the head and a point on the back and bottom I think.... I just can't remember the name :S  Saw it on Conquest where the had a makeshift tournament.
Click to expand...

Do any of these look familiar?
Google image search
 
No, it's not one of those. Wasn't a warhammer. Kinda similar to, but has a thicker shaft and was 2-handed even though it was just barely longer than most 1-handed weapons.  I found it really odd looking and the only place I've seen it was on the show. So I guess it could've been wrong, *shrug* I just really dont know.
 
Ezias said:
No, it's not one of those. Wasn't a warhammer. Kinda similar to, but has a thicker shaft and was 2-handed even though it was just barely longer than most 1-handed weapons.  I found it really odd looking and the only place I've seen it was on the show. So I guess it could've been wrong, *shrug* I just really dont know.
Click to expand...

Well, it might just have been somebody's personalized alternative to a traditional warhammer.  Or it might have been a lucerne hammer, or bec d' corbin, where the shaft got cracked so was shortened instead of replaced.
 
Possible. If only I had access to the tape that episode was on... then I'd be able to find out it's name :razz:
 
I think the glaive was a bit pointless because by the time u swing the weapon ull have 5 stab holes in u.
 
srry my mistake i judged this weapon by the way it moves in M&B.  But probably it is underrated in M&B and is probably made different what it actually is.
 
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