When to Choose What Weapon [Melee]

[Úlfheðinn]

Vodka bottles count as rocks in battle.

 

[Farmind]

With the various weapon archetypes, what situation would make you prefer one over the other?

Previously I used to prefer to use winged spear in mixed-weapon fencing, but now I prefer a partisan. Partisan proved to be even more versatile weapon than winged spear.

Proper partisan is ox-tongue spear with parrying lugs at the base of the blade. The blade has similar size and shape as a short sword. The rear of the blade is rounded so that it will not get tangled when blade is pulled back.

Note that the parrying lugs must be short and straight. This allows you to catch opponent's weapon with lugs, push it aside, and continue with attack. If you used a weapon with hooked lugs (as in ranseur or spetum) you would need to disengage by pulling back.

After firearms become common, sergeants and officers were still carrying Partisans as symbol of authority. In this use the partisan gained additional elements in the form of curls and hooks on the lugs and decorative piercings and etchings on the blade. The blade shape was also changed to give more room for decorations. This turned these arms into a display of craftsmanship rather than a fighting instrument.

The left partisan is fighting weapon, while the right one is a display item used in parades.

 

[SpruceTrap]

What about a machete? I'd take a machete over a gladius anytime. "I can stab with that." I can cut down small trees, attack others, defend myself, skin animals, and countless other actions that will help me survive long after your body has decayed.

A spear would be useful for roasting items. For example, see how the Crusaders cooked dead bodies and ate them after the siege of Ma'arra.

 

[SpruceTrap]

Open field in formation? Spears and pikes.
Dark alleys? Daggers and small swords

I agree, but usually castle/palace guards used halberds, and even the guys in The Night Watch have spears, pikes and polearms. Just posing for the painting?

I tried looking it up but there's not a lot I could find. The night watch (if you mean the painting) refers to a shooting company. They were a kind of militia and mainly relied on ranged weapons but the Dutch wikipedia vaguely insinuates that, as a militia, they were also responsible for artillery in town defence. And if a cannon was in an open field, they had to defend it. And, atleast in earlier times, it helped to have polearms along to defend against cavalry. So I guess they were mixed arms.

I think he's referring to this guy.

 

[e27]

Personally, I'd sit back with a crossbow and run whenever someone got close. But seeing as this is about melee, I'd try and go with a long knife or heavy shortsword, along with a big shield so I could get close, then stab him.

 

[Farmind]

Pollaxe/Bec De Faucon

Damn. There was a glaring hole in my education. I had never seen a "Bec De Faucon", and the only similar-sounding weapon name I know was "Bec De Corbin". It took me a while to find what is the difference.

The word "bec de corbin" means the beak (or bill) of a crow. The crowbill is shaped so that it can penetrate into a target with little effort. This shape has been copied into various weapons, and is known as "crowbill pick". Crowbill pick is often seen as the peen of an axe or hammer, so the name "bec de corbin" can mean several different weapon types.

Here is a picture of a horseman's axe with crowbill pick peen.

Spoiler

Here is a picture of long-hafted hammer with thrusting spike, voided hammer poll and crowbill pick peen.

Spoiler

The hammer head (poll) has been lightened (voided) by grinding away a cross-shaped area from the center, leaving only 4 prongs.

"Bec De Faucon" means the beak of a hawk. Hawkbill pick resembles crowbill pick, but the upper edge of the pick has been drawn into a crest with concave sides. This forms a blade running along the upper edge.

Here is a picture of a long-hammer with thrusting blade, voided hammer poll and hawkbill pick peen. The right image shows the front-view of the pick.

Spoiler

I have seen a picture of a another type of pick with deeper hook where the lower edge had been drawn into a blade, but I do not know its name.

The English word "poll" means the face of a hammer, so "poll-axe" can mean "hammer-axe" or "long-axe with hammer peen".

Here is a picture of long-axe with thrusting spike, axe blade and hammer peen:

Spoiler

 

[Devercia]

peen

Peen...
Bipenal axe...
Penis 

This is the first time I realized there is an iteration of penis that is actually spelled "peen" 

 

[FrisianDude]

Sweet pics, nice explanation Farmind.

 

[Hundesohn]

I would take a halberd!
A good and versatile weapon! I can keep enemys at distance and have a long range radius to hit targets.
I can simply kill horses and riders with the spike and I am able to kill  unarmored as well as armored targets with the axe blade

Spoiler

 

[theelder]

well well,nice discussion,when to choose what melee weapon aye? 
from the begining i read this topic,i only heard about medieval europe weapon that is being discussed,so,i will give an asian prespective 
for melee,actually,it's more depend on your skill than of the situation,more to taste i think
at a beginner level,i would choose hammer than sword since it's easier to use,you don't need any special skill to swing hammers right? while you need a right angle to deal a big pain with swords,and both sword and hammer has a short attack range. So,for an urgent situation,you may use either hammer or sword
spears,is a very versatile type of weapon,and it can be very very (very) dangerous if you have the skill. you can use the pole to turn the enemy's attack (many attack as well) and then kill them with a quick stab
for the type of sword,i think people in medieval europe prefer to use a medium length sword (longer than short sword but shorther than two handed sword,i think it's called bastard sword?)
it's light enough to use by one hand and it's long enough to use it two handed (and will be very light if you use it two handed)
for myself,i would prefer scimitars (arabian sword) since they could do a long slice in one swing,and are lighter than europe swords. their form make it easier to swing and a perfect weapon for a brutal fight,even though it's harder to parry with them 
swing,swing,swing 

 

[Farmind]

... scimitars ... even though it's harder to parry with them

I am not sure if parrying is much more difficult with curved blade than with a straight blade. Some of the parrying methods just appear to be slightly different. However, a curved blade has some interesting attack features.

I got a nasty surprise when I was first time sparring with a skilled opponent who used a sabre. When I parried a cut off-the-center, he rotated his wrist so that the curvature of his blade brought the blade tip back within my defence and trusted.

Some sabre models have sharpened false-edge so that the blade tip and first third of the blade is double-edged. This allows rotating the blade and draw-cutting while recovering from block or parry.

Here is a picture of a curved sword with sharpened false-edge.

Spoiler

 

[theelder]

... scimitars ... even though it's harder to parry with them

I am not sure if parrying is much more difficult with curved blade than with a straight blade. Some of the parrying methods just appear to be slightly different. However, a curved blade has some interesting attack features.

I got a nasty surprise when I was first time sparring with a skilled opponent who used a sabre. When I parried a cut off-the-center, he rotated his wrist so that the curvature of his blade brought the blade tip back within my defence and trusted.

Some sabre models have sharpened false-edge so that the blade tip and first third of the blade is double-edged. This allows rotating the blade and draw-cutting while recovering from block or parry.

Here is a picture of a curved sword with sharpened false-edge.

Spoiler

yes,maybe you're right sir,parrying with scimitar isn't much more difficult,but like i said,it depends on your skill and "taste". the play with sabre is more focused on rotating the curve and how to swing it,which needs a certain skill to play it
Skilled scimitar users often get clumsy when they're using straight swords as well as straight swords users
I think because they're not used to use a different sword play 

 

[Tork789]

Only longsword. XVa or XVIIIb of Oakeshott's typology to be more specific, I will tell why a bit later. So why the longsword? Because it's the most versatile and probably the most severe melee weapon you can find, besides it is the only weapon that was made entirely for war purposes, every other weapon's prototypes come from common tools.
See for yourself: it is long, about 120+ cm in average, light, about 1.5 kg, it can be used in one or two hands, thus with shield, and from a horseback.
And while being so fast and flexible, it can be used efficiently against armoured opponents, using the half-sword technique:

Here's also a good video about it: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xh5lw2_ngc-medieval-fight-book-part-3-3_shortfilms

So why the XVa or XVIIIb? There is an image of perfect surviving example of XVIIIb type sword of 15th century:

So what makes it so special and sets it apart from other swords of earlier periods? The answer is not obvious, and partly lies within the Oakeshott's typology. That type belongs to the second group of the typology and as described by Oakeshott, second group swords were designed for piercing plate armour, in this group, we find the acute points and reinforced cross-sections (diamond and hexagonal) needed to stiffen the blades for thrusting. This particular sword has a diamond-shaped hollow-ground-like cross-section with strong central ridges, which doesn't allow the sword to bend when the thrust is performed, while the sword is still a great cutting performer.

 

[theelder]

...it is long, about 120+ cm in average, light, about 1.5 kg, it can be used in one or two hands, thus with shield, and from a horseback....

aaaahhh,yes,this is what i meant about favorite europan sword which can be used both one handed or two handed,i though it was called bastard sword,haha,so longsword it is 

 

[Baguette Eater]

Both names work, longsword used the be the name for an arming sword (seems that now people are calling it broadsword, ugh)

 

[theelder]

Both names work, longsword used the be the name for an arming sword (seems that now people are calling it broadsword, ugh)

i think bradsword is a different type of sword 
Hey,is that rainbow dash in your signature??? 

 

[Baguette Eater]

Anti rainbow dash.

That's a broadsword

That's an arming sword, in most games, its either called a broadsword or a longsword.

 

[theelder]

that sword in the top looks like schianova with a broad body

 

[Baguette Eater]

Its a basket hilt sword, scotish stuff from the 16-17th century.

 

[Tork789]

What I really don't like about warband, is that weapons like scimitar do great damage to armoured and unarmoured targets, while in real life it will be completely useless even against chainmail.