[Werewolf: Archives] Werewolf: In Soviet Russia - Herbalist wins

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Eternal said:
AWdeV makes a 'ridicule' post of Whoopin that doesn't help the village at all, and then makes another post saying he had a great idea and then lost it. Bravo. Could become scumhunter of the year at this rate, bro. I also find the meta idea very implausible, though it's not bad to have it in the back of our minds.

a) so your 'ridicule' post is more helpful than my supposed one?
b) It wasn't a ridicule post, it was a defense against some really metagamey accusations. I admit to it being laced with some sneers though.
c) The meta idea wasn't serious so I don't see why you should bring it up, other than trying to influence people's opinons of me without giving actual arguments.

Eternal said:
I'd like to get the first serious accusation going and say that Magorian is really starting to look more and more suspicious in my eyes. His exchange about 'going after the enemy we know' seems to be a strong village appeal. His argument with Facemelter Day 1 was very, very pointless and his argument with Moss now is barely more useful than that one. What we've been getting from Mag are periods of inactivity with an occasional burst of a stupid argument with a random player. I could even string together the thought that Day 1 the argument with Face was an attempt to stall the then-dominant wagon on Whoopin, but that would imply Whoopin is villain, and that's difficult for me to believe.

The first serious accusation? You were in the same post referring to my defense to whoopin ACCUSING ME. But clearly that wasn't serious enough. Allow me to roll my eyes at you: :roll:

Worse yet; this is your second incarnation. Your first one was an innocent who got lynched by whoopin. You've now radically changed your opinion of him and are arguing that those who've disagreed with him have to be insane? Did you just reincarnate as his packy or are you trying to suck up to him so he won't go after you this time? Neither option looks too innocent to me.
 
Eternal said:
This does reveal something to us. We had 3 players targeted. Going into meta, we have 15 players. It feels unlikely that the villains would have three abilities, especially considering one is a killing. If they do, it's more than likely a dice roll, and all three landed. It is possible that even the kill was a vigilante role and not the villains. Why the vigilante would choose Whoopin, however, of all people, I don't know.

Seeing as vigilantes usually are good guys who kill at night and you yourself said here that the kill might be a vigilante kill, it is definite that the vigilante didn't choose Whoopin. Probably a brainfart on your part.

Eternal said:
Whoopin was found just outside his house. He was trapped under a net with no way of getting out. His attempt to free himself had only made things worse, and the trap was a completely mess. Some villagers even managed a smile at the sight. "What are you ****ers smiling at? Someone help me out of here already."
Whoopin gets trapped under a net. Feels like a villain thing. Hunters use nets - wolves, not so much. This lessens my suspicions of him by a large deal, but this narration nonsense is still confusing to me. Three? Three targets, and they all appear by villains? This seems so very unusual. This makes it very difficult for me to rely on the narration for hunting. Although my suspicions are weakened, I still feel very, very uneasy about Whoopin.

Don't rely on the narration for anything. You can just as easily assume that the net and, to a far lesser extent, the wolfsbane were used by the village against the hunters. The wolves are weak and pretty much human so they would use nets. The hunters want to kill so a net is a waste of time if you don't follow it up with a kill. The kill on the other hand is pretty probably made by the hunters.

Eternal said:
Frisian's house was next. As someone opened the door, a strong smell of wolfsbane assaulted their noses. Frisian stumbled out of the bathroom, barely able to stand. "Sorry for not meeting everyone outside, I spent the entire night sick in there. Must be something I ate."
Wolfsbane - similarly a hunter weapon. Or, seeing as Hojo was a head sicentist, it could be a scientist weapon. But I'm not sure why a townie role would have wolfsbane or why they'd care to use it. It honestly looks like a kill attempt that wasn't successful and not a role block.

It could be but that's as big an assumption as believing it was a role block. It could even be both; a slow working poison. Only Xardob knows. The net on the other hand seems like a perfect roleblock; who ever gets stuck can't do **** for the next turn. It's pretty straightforward but not a tool villains traditionally use; they kill.

Eternal said:
Everyone expected the worse, approaching Hojo's place. The door was smashed open and there were several broken glasses on the floor. Hojo's body was found near the backdoor, pierced by two crossbow bolts and a broken syringe on his hand. The rest of the house seemed to be a laboratory, which reminded everyone of Stalingrad. Facemelter voiced everyone's opinion "It's a pity we lost such a valuable ally, but I can't feel sad about his death. He was the responsible for this, after all."[/i]

Hojo was Ivan, the head scientist.
I'm not sure if Facemelter means anything in there, it feels like flavor text, but I will keep this in mind when I go on the hunt. Crossbow bolt = hunter weapon, no questions asked. However, at this point, the hunters seems to be very physical. Crossbow bolts. Nets. Why the sudden switch to wolfsbane with Frisian? It is an item that they have? I'm pretty convinced the Hojo hit and the Whoopin blocks were done by villains - but the wolfsbane throws me off. Either way, if Frisian wasn't a wolf, then he wouldn't care **** all about the wolfsbane in his house. That clears him for me.

Why do you adamantly believe the net was a villainous attack? There is no reason to assume that and it even seems counter-intuitive. But it obviously was used by villains because look! It trapped poor little whoopin. I'm really becoming suspicious of you being his packie.
As an innocent you opposed him but now you oppose his opposers:

a) You pretend the attack on him could only be done by villains. Could be either.
b) You try to brush off my rebuttal to whoopin's apparently "non-serious" accusation as simply being to ridicule him. That's not accurate.

The only problem is that I have no thoughts about the scarce posts by your predecessor; I can't use them to try and find a coherent line in your posts. Regardless, if I didn't think Whoopie was the bigger villain, you'd have my vote. And not for village president either.

Eternal said:
I'm not going to attempt to defend his posts, just like I never tried to accuse him of anything when I played Eternal. He is unreadable, both to myself as him and to myself as Eternal.

What does this mean?
 
Nice idea, but is a bit far-fetched if you look at the narration; there was wolfbane stench in FrisianDude's house but not in Hojo's. If FD attacked Hojo then it would've been in Hojo's house so that one should stink more instead of FD's.
 
Well how about the idea that Hojo used it?


Well coming to think of it, he probably would have used it on Whoopin instead of FD.
 
If Hojo used it, the stench would be in his house. I dunno.

And how so? Assuming Whoopin is a villain; he was stuck in a trap so  it's still unlikely he's responsible for Hojo's death.
 
I hadn't thought Hojo might have used it, tbh. But I don't think he'd have used it on me, would he?
Nipplemelter said:
Eternal said:
Frisian was negatively affected by wolfsbane. Therefore, he is an innocent.

But how do we know that he was negatively affected by the wolfsbane, rather than something else?
We don't, but I'm not sure what makes you think there was something else. What do you think there might have been? I know of nothing that could have had the same effect, so to me Wolfsbane with a percentage chance to kill sounds most logical.

Anyway, I am not fond of the idea that the wolfsbane was used to protect as I recall having been suggested; something which makes a character ill and possibly even kills it does not seem a particularly benevolent form of protection. If anything, it looks much more like an attack.

AWdeV said:
You're either with the town or against it.
While possibly true, that does not preclude a third faction. You can be against the town AND against the main (group of) villain(s).

AWdeV said:
Nevertheless, I don't think anyone is cleared or confirmed anything by this narration; There was an overpowering smell of wolfsbane and it could either be that a human got overwhelmed by the fumes or Xardob is, again, going with the mind****ery; that he uses the word not to mean "killer (bane) of wolves" but rather as "bane/killer USED BY wolves".
I very much doubt it; Wolfsbane has been the standard term for the stuff in a number of games now. I don't think Xardob is ****ing minds at all.


Irt the other night-attack; a net is not common m.o. for either wolves nor wolf hunters. Unless the user wanted to be sure to get their catch alive. This means we can't know for sure who it is, but I do have the feeling that the wolf hunters don't want to catch a werewolf alive; killing would be better. However, this is only reasoning.  I think a pro-village vigilante-like role netted Whoopin, believing Whoopin to be a villain. But then again, wouldn't a vigilante kill?

 
What I meant was that Hojo going to Whoopins' house and using it there. Sorry wasn't clear.

Hojo was voting for Whoopin.

I was thinking that Hojo could of used it, but looking back on the thread I found that if Hojo used it, he would have used it on Whoopin.
 
FrisianDude said:
AWdeV said:
You're either with the town or against it.
While possibly true, that does not preclude a third faction. You can be against the town AND against the main (group of) villain(s).

That's what I said. You can be against the other villains and against the town, but that still puts you in the "against the town" category.

FrisianDude said:
AWdeV said:
Nevertheless, I don't think anyone is cleared or confirmed anything by this narration; There was an overpowering smell of wolfsbane and it could either be that a human got overwhelmed by the fumes or Xardob is, again, going with the mind****ery; that he uses the word not to mean "killer (bane) of wolves" but rather as "bane/killer USED BY wolves".
I very much doubt it; Wolfsbane has been the standard term for the stuff in a number of games now. I don't think Xardob is ****ing minds at all.

It has been, yes. But "wolves" has been the standard term for villains in taleworlds games for ever as well. It's not an argument as such but it may be worth remembering that this isn't a standard wolf=bad game though.

FrisianDude said:
Irt the other night-attack; a net is not common m.o. for either wolves nor wolf hunters. Unless the user wanted to be sure to get their catch alive. This means we can't know for sure who it is, but I do have the feeling that the wolf hunters don't want to catch a werewolf alive; killing would be better. However, this is only reasoning.  I think a pro-village vigilante-like role netted Whoopin, believing Whoopin to be a villain. But then again, wouldn't a vigilante kill?

Vigilantes have been killers yes. Could be this has been changed but I doubt that. Hell, I doubt there even is a vigilante.



QuailLover said:
What I meant was that Hojo going to Whoopins' house and using it there. Sorry wasn't clear.

Hojo was voting for Whoopin.

I was thinking that Hojo could of used it, but looking back on the thread I found that if Hojo used it, he would have used it on Whoopin.

Oh, I get what you're saying now. There's no reason to believe that the stinking up of FD's place was Hojo's doing though. And I realise you weren't claiming that, but still.
 
AWdeV:

You are going into the mind****ery bit a little too much. I really don't think Xardob wants to make this game even more confusing than it already is. I mean, what would be his motivation? Everyone at the end of the game would be going "WTF?!" at him and he'd be be like, "Sorry guys. This game was confusing, I know." Honestly, I think he means what he means with his narration. Twisting the word 'wolfsbane' is a little silly and perhaps a little anti village.

I do like your idea, though, AWdeV, about Whoopin being snared. It was "just outside his house" which implies he left his house to do something. Would that imply he was a special? I get this is role fishing at this point and that's entirely anti-village, but that's what Whoopin's noose hangs from at this point. Either he's a special or a wolf. What I DON'T like about that is that we had a kill last night AND a block/whatever Frisian's was + whatever Whoopin's was. So wolves must've had at least one action - and if Whoopin is a villain and was blocked, the chances of that going through is... iffy. Granted, another unblocked villain could've done it, but that block on him does cut into the chances he's a villain.

I did forget about Whoopin's accusation of you, I'm sorry, I feel quite stupid now. I haven't called anyone insane, actually. I find him as suspicious and villainy as I did before. His poor post on you (I didn't even remember it. That's how bad it was) doesn't help matters. Read my first post on Day 2, though. Prior to this theory you just proposed, I did not see a way Whoopin could be a villain, and even now it's.. iffy. It goes against my being to acknowledge the fact he's most likely an innocent.


Yes, when I mentioned vigilante, that was a dun goof. I was going to fix it, then I went "screw it." Also, a block isn't a weapon the villains usually use? Now that's a little ridiculous. In many games I've played the villains had some sort of roleblocker. What 'special' do they have otherwise? I mean, Whoopin's game had quite a few fancy thing, but a staple secondary role for villains has always been a block. Even in traditional Mafia, a Consort was one of the most common roles.

Another point about Whoopin: Yeah, your post was pretty silly. It was pretty much a ridicule post and that's it, with some metagaming thrown in. I don't pretend the net could've only been done by villains. I know the kill was. Crossbow bolt. Villain weapon. The net and the wolfsbane confused me from my first post til now. Even in the very post you quoted, I was hesitant. I don't like Whoopin. He is suspicious. But I'm not going to go on the hunter hunt for a person I believe is innocent from the narration, no matter how much of a grudge I carry.

Regarding Bgfan: I do not understand him. In a game I got him lynched because he did something that only a villain would do, and he turned up innocent. He baffles me. He was suspicious to me in my previous incarnation, but I didn't go on the hunt for him because I do not understand him. He's baffling, and honestly, I was a bit scared to get an innocent Bgfan lynched again. It's the same way here. I don't understand him as him. If you want a case against me based on Bgfan's activity, go ahead. I'd have no defense, because Bgfan is Bgfan and not a creature that I can understand.

Regarding the net: Look at it this way.
Kill: Definitely a villain kill. A crossbow. Why would a wolf have this?
From Crossbow -> net. Understandable, very physical. Weapon, bow, net, something associated with hunters.
From Crossbow -> wolfsbane. Wolfsbane honestly seems to be a more sciencey weapon. I wouldn't be surprised if Hojo used it, actually. It just seems unusual that hunters would swap from a crossbow to suddenly using plants.

If this is redundant, sorry, I didn't proofread. I'm in a bit of a hurry, but I hope this satisfies AWdeV. I am very much liking the theory about Whoopin stepping into it..
 
Eternal said:
Best of luck with life, Moss! I know it can get rough.

As for the Frisian matter, he's a confirmed innocent.
No, he is certainly not a confirmed innocent even though it is the most probable. Since we do not actually know 100% what things actually do, we can only speculate. It could possibly be so that the only reason to why he even is alive is because he is human, I mean, how do we now if wolfsbane does or doesn't make humans a bit iffy in the stomach?

Awdev: When it comes to net, it is a classical hunting tool for wolves. At least in Sweden. Besides that, maybe we are classical werewolves that only turn in the moonlight or full moon?
 
Really think we should drop the meta discussion about the narration now. It's leading nowhere useful and the most likely scenario I can think of implicate specials, and that's never good.

Anyway, Eternal's catching my eye. Again. Why oh why, if you find him so villainous still, have you completely given up on your crazy tunnel vision?
 
Calodine said:
Anyway, Eternal's catching my eye. Again. Why oh why, if you find him so villainous still, have you completely given up on your crazy tunnel vision?
My other persona was lynched for exactly that. I'd like to lynch a villain.
 
Eternal said:
I did forget about Whoopin's accusation of you, I'm sorry, I feel quite stupid now. I haven't called anyone insane, actually. I find him as suspicious and villainy as I did before. His poor post on you (I didn't even remember it. That's how bad it was) doesn't help matters. Read my first post on Day 2, though. Prior to this theory you just proposed, I did not see a way Whoopin could be a villain, and even now it's.. iffy. It goes against my being to acknowledge the fact he's most likely an innocent.

Another point about Whoopin: Yeah, your post was pretty silly. It was pretty much a ridicule post and that's it, with some metagaming thrown in. I don't pretend the net could've only been done by villains. I know the kill was. Crossbow bolt. Villain weapon. The net and the wolfsbane confused me from my first post til now. Even in the very post you quoted, I was hesitant. I don't like Whoopin. He is suspicious. But I'm not going to go on the hunter hunt for a person I believe is innocent from the narration, no matter how much of a grudge I carry.
Hope that answers your q. I'm a bit confused as to what you're asking.

 
I'm asking why you're completely ignoring your top suspect base on an easily made judgement on a topic we know very, very little about.

It stinks of a cop out.
 
Because there is something to be gained from narration. We can gain who is targeted. Xardob isn't going to randomly throw names into the narration for ****s and gigs. There's information to be gleaned and ideas to consider. Whoopin was targeted last night by either a special or a baddie. There is a much greater chance that he was targeted by a bad due to the weapon used. This has been the topic for the last four pages. It's not a topic we know little about. If Whoopin was targeted by a villain, that's all we need. As I've explained multiple times, Whoopin is more likely than Frisian to be the one nailed by a villain. In my mind, let's assume that's a 60% chance he was hit by a villain. I'm not going to be as suspicious of him when he has a much greater chance of being villain roleblocked. Makes sense?

I am also not completely ignoring my top suspect. That's a silly assertion. I am keeping an eye on him, and have been awaiting posts from him.
 
Except we can't know that a net is a Villain's weapon. And frankly I think it's a bit suspect you pretend you do know that the net is the weapon of a bad guy.
 
It does not make much sense for a villain to target Whoopin since he does steal away some thunder. Although there could always be more reasons than that, like to confuse the village, thinking he is a special etc. I think it's more likely that Frisian was targeted by a villain, at least if you just look at the items used.
 
Eternal said:
Regarding the net: Look at it this way.
Kill: Definitely a villain kill. A crossbow. Why would a wolf have this?
From Crossbow -> net. Understandable, very physical. Weapon, bow, net, something associated with hunters.
From Crossbow -> wolfsbane. Wolfsbane honestly seems to be a more sciencey weapon. I wouldn't be surprised if Hojo used it, actually. It just seems unusual that hunters would swap from a crossbow to suddenly using plants.
I almost feel ignored sometimes. We do not know anything in Werewolf, but probabilities do matter.

Bulle said:
It does not make much sense for a villain to target Whoopin since he does steal away some thunder. Although there could always be more reasons than that, like to confuse the village, thinking he is a special etc. I think it's more likely that Frisian was targeted by a villain, at least if you just look at the items used.
That is a good point. Whoopin would be the person of choice to lynch today. Anticipating narration, there would be absolutely no reason for villains to roleblock Whoopin. An innocent special, seeing his role in my lynch (and his overall suspiciousness) would mostly likely roleblock him. Both this idea and AWdeV's are bright.

I really want a Whoopin post atm.
 
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