[S] Pike and Blade 3.5: Riders on the Storm!

[Aeon221]

I have to say, this mod impressed me. Not just another "Heres more units for the sake of them" which adds variety and absolutely butchers balance, you seem to have actually put some coherent thought into the units and what role they play.  So i for one am going to start using this 
Will this work with save games?

I'm going to go with a maybe.

While the mod itself definitely does not break saves, and actually populates through very well, it's extremely unlikely that you'll be able to load your save through a new module. If you absolutely MUST have your save from native, the only way to do it is to cut and paste the troops.txt and party-templates.txt files that are in native somewhere else (KEEP THEM SAFE OR YOU'LL HAVE TO REINSTALL), and put the two files in my zip into the native folder.

This WILL break multi-player (and possibly patching), so you'd have to switch back to the Native files anytime you wanted to play online or update the game.

Again, I wouldn't recommend this as it could end up being a total pain in the ass, and you'd almost certainly have your save break if you ever loaded with Native again, what with a bunch of units no longer existing. I'd suggest instead that you export your character (which you can do by clicking on the statistics button at the bottom left of the character page, and then hitting the export button on the statistics page) and importing him to start a new game in a new module using the standard installation process.

edit:

what about Flesh-Rippers for the cleaver-men...a bit horror-esque yes,  but when i think cleaver I think brain splitting, bone ripping, muscle tearing; hence the gory name.

Hilarious idea, but not in the least thematically appropriate. I'm coming around to the tradesmen idea for the lower tiers, but I'm not sure it'd really work -- having a Rhodok Farmer upgrade to a Rhodok Merchant, and then to a Rhodok Butcher makes less sense than just calling them all zombies. 

editx2: Meatman might work though! Gives you a solid feeling, and the impression that they are intended to stand between the enemy and lighter stuff. On the other hand, it's not really relevant to anything, and also sounds a little gay-er than I expected!

 

[Cassial]

I sincerely hope you don't use Meatmen. Perhaps "Berserker"?

As for the 2H Swadian Skirmishers, you could call them something simple like "Claymore" or "Zweihander", or even "Highlander".

Just something that sort of says, "Big sword".

Also, do you think you could do anything with the Mercenary units? They seems rather simple and incomplete to me.

 

[Aeon221]

Yeah, the Meatmen thing was a total joke. The name suggestions for the Swadian unit are a no-go, because they violate one of my fundamental rules -- names must be in the primary language, and the function of the unit must be immediately evident.


I agree that the Mercenaries need work, but I'm leaving them alone until I've got the other factions locked down completely. They're complicated, because you don't want them to be too good at providing "hole coverage," but you also don't want them to be totally irrelevant. I've got some fun ideas, but it's totally half baked at the moment.


For those who are interested, I'm furiously alternating between dotmapping all the faction unit trees and chugging pills to kill the flu.

Oh, and I came up with a name I don't hate for the Rhodok main infantry that actually describes the one thing they've all got in common: Boardmen!

 

[Khannus]

You could always keep the cleaver in the name and just use something like Cleaver-Wielders...conveys their purpose immediately and spruces up the rather drab men part of the name

 

[Aeon221]

Ok, so the problem should be pretty obvious. Three entire factions are little more than carbon copies of one another with stat/texture changes. Few of the upgrades have interesting choices (mostly it's a +1 system), although at least I've gotten a better outcome than Vanilla -- where Vanilla had either 2 or 3 end units for every faction, I've got four out of six factions having 4 or 5 end units, with only two still stuck in the 2 or 3 end unit boredom.

HOWEVER, I'm feeling pretty certain that five end units is just about the most I can justify (light inf, heavy inf, horse/horse replacer, anti-cav, ranged), and I've made certain that many of the +1s are also receiving new equipment, so it's not JUST +oneage all the way through.

Based on all that, I'm declaring myself done with the Rhodoks. I also want them to still feel like underdogs, and to stay closer to the Revolution of the Common Man sort of vibe they always had. So, long story short, they're not getting a t6, but they also don't have any upgrade lines that halt at t3, as all the other factions will. They should also technically have the most end units, but since not all of the t5-t6 connections will be made due to insufficient xp, the other factions will also functionally have 5.

I'm giving the Swadians a t5 2h sword skirmisher in the melee line, and moving the Knight to pop out of him as a t6 unit for reasons mentioned in a post above. That immediately changes them to a five outcome faction, with a vulnerable transition point for their t6.

I'm scrapping the bow skirmisher idea for the Vaegirs -- instead, they're going to get a heavily armored Great Bardiche monster who will act as their rough, tough t6 infantry badass. I'm also replacing their traditional knight with a reasonably armored dude on a speedy horse who will also wield a bardiche, mostly because the bardiche is a completely awesome weapon that gets a lot of play in MP, and the lance is duller than dishwater. This is probably the most extreme change from Vanilla, but almost certainly the most necessary. I want the Vaegirs to feel more like a cultural melding of the Swadians and the Nords than just a Swad re-texture with better archers and worse cavalry. So they'll have pikes and cavalry like the Swadians, but bows and a monster t6 infantry like the Nords. As this is not a horse t6, it'll come out of the main battle infantry line.

The Nords will gain a t3 2h axeman forking out of the t2 infantry line. I'm also going ahead with stripping all the Nord main battle infantry of their throwing weapons (sorry Nord traditionalists). I'm going to compensate the Huscarl by upgrading his crummy great axe to a great long axe, which is better in every way -- I want the huscarl to feel like a blend between the light speedy 2h axeman, and the mighty nord infantry, and this is how we're gonna do it.

The Sarranids will be getting their Javelin Cavalry beefed up, as well as a lightly armored 2h sabreman with the Mameluke to t6 out of them on a Sarranid horse (for balance reasons). The Mamelukes in motion will now be faster, but easier to dismount and thus hopefully slightly less retarded than before -- he'll also have slightly more health personally to compensate for the loss of his beloved warhorse, because I still want you to **** yourself when you see them. I love how those little metal bastards are such Terminators, even though I loathe fighting them! They're keeping the same dotmap as the Swadians because I like them being "Swadians of the Sand" with a twist!

The Khergits are going to get something very strange indeed. I've got the germ of an idea of what I want to do with them, and if it still seems cool in the morning (when I'm not quite so hopped up on pills) I'm definitely going to do it. I'll put it this way -- if you know about Ghengiz Khan, and particularly the history of his campaigns and what made them possible, you'll have an inkling what I'm going to do. And because I'm feeling gracious, all Khergits (even the recruit) will start mounted. 

Here's the new dotmap! And as always, feel free to tell me that any and all of my ideas are utter ****! Oh, and if you made it through this drug induced rambling alive, props to you. I promise coherent summaries in the morning! And the final upshot of all this writing is no update tonight =(

As of this post, v1.2 stands at 87 downloads. Thanks!

 

[Cassial]

When thinking of the Swadians earlier I thought of "Heavy Infantry" but then realized that wouldn't apply, as they're lightly armored. So I thought of something along the lines of "Strike Infantry" or "Forward Infantry" to show how they're designed to move in fast and hit hard.

Also, will this large update you're thinking of up above warrant a new save? Because I just re-started and I'd rather not do it again. 

 

[Shimmmy]

I'm also going ahead with stripping all the Nord main battle infantry of their throwing weapons (sorry Nord traditionalists). I'm going to compensate the Huscarl by upgrading his crummy great axe to a great long axe, which is better in every way -- I want the huscarl to feel like a blend between the light speedy 2h axeman, and the mighty nord infantry, and this is how we're gonna do it.

That hurt's dude. And I'm not really seeing the point. Throwing axes are Nord's bread and butter, but not in a game-breaking way. I admit that your work looks impressive, it's well thought in general, but I just don't get it.  Our only throwing unit is gonna be anti-cavarly skirmisher?

How about giving a high-end choice between huscarl and heavy axe-thrower?

Also, will this large update you're thinking of up above warrant a new save? Because I just re-started and I'd rather not do it again

I wanted to ask for that also. I guess it won't be save compatibile which sucks.

 

[androsh]

A'ight, I've been doing some testing with the following settings, playing as the Rhodoks.

- Wages: default
- Leadership: 15 units per skill level
- Food consumption - Less food consumption
- Troop recruitment at villages: minimum friendship level to get large recruitment is 0 (to speed up getting a big infantry army)

Everything else is pretty much as default.

So far I've only played for an hour or two, and this is what I've noticed:

- The infantry travels very tightly in the battlefield, even without the "Stay closer" order. This is good
- They all have appropriate weapon/armor/skill combos, or at least that's what I've seen so far.
- Not sure if this is intentional or what, but I'm getting really close to getting a high level infantry troop, a Veteran Sargeant, if I remember correctly. In only two hours, that's kinda fast. I have 5 Cleavermen, 5 Pikemen, a dozen or so Infantry, and a Veteran Pikeman.
- Having a big army means a lot of money to pay in wages, even for infantry. I'm considering tweaking the mod to reduce army wages.
- Having a big infantry based army means, well, waiting a long time to clash against the enemy. I'd suggest bumping up the Athletics skill of all Infantry units by at least 1 point (I'd personally do it by 2) to make battles more exciting, so that the enemy and your troops meet sooner.
- In battles against looters, mountain bandits, and deserters, my army did alright. And this was with slightly favorable odds. I'd basically have them charge or form a tight line, and I always end up losing a handful of Cleavermen or Pikemen, which is odd, since they should be tougher than the regular recruits.

That's all I can think of. I haven't fought cavalry yet, so I'll let you know when I do. If you have any questions, do let me know

 

[Shimmmy]

- The infantry travels very tightly in the battlefield, even without the "Stay closer" order. This is good

Inf staying closer? No AI changes so it's just your imagination.

- Not sure if this is intentional or what, but I'm getting really close to getting a high level infantry troop, a Veteran Sargeant, if I remember correctly. In only two hours, that's kinda fast. I have 5 Cleavermen, 5 Pikemen, a dozen or so Infantry, and a Veteran Pikeman.

If I'm not mistaken troop lvls stay the same, so it's just like in native. It's for sure faster than getting high-end troops in "81 new units" and similar mods

- Having a big army means a lot of money to pay in wages, even for infantry. I'm considering tweaking the mod to reduce army wages.
- Having a big infantry based army means, well, waiting a long time to clash against the enemy. I'd suggest bumping up the Athletics skill of all Infantry units by at least 1 point (I'd personally do it by 2) to make battles more exciting, so that the enemy and your troops meet sooner.

That's not mod related. Of course bigger army means bigger wages, but dealing with that it's a part of the game. According to "long time waiting" - I'm nearly always (even in cavarly heavy builds) letting my enemy come near, setting up archers somewher on the high ground, and keeping my inf in formation. But that's just a matte of taste.

- In battles against looters, mountain bandits, and deserters, my army did alright. And this was with slightly favorable odds. I'd basically have them charge or form a tight line, and I always end up losing a handful of Cleavermen or Pikemen, which is odd, since they should be tougher than the regular recruits.

Reason is simple: higher tiers inf usually have higher athletics, so they are leaping before the rest of the army, which means they can get swarmed. It's also not related to that mod btw

Honestly, that's rather poor imput, not really related to this mod.

I'm playing with Nords. Luckily I'm at war with swadia so i can test new ati-cav line. I've made another battle group with them, and just before enemy cavarly hits  I'm sending them forward. They are pretty good at slowing or even stoping cavarly, while rest of my forces throw axes/javelins and fight with those who managed to get through. Works pretty nice.


Also i'm seeing more infantry/less cavarly in lords armies in general.

 

[androsh]

Honestly, that's rather poor imput, not really related to this mod.

I'll let the mod maker to be the judge of that, I wrote it for his benefit

It's hard to tell what's part of the mod and what isn't, so I just wrote my observations.

---

Further testing revealed the following:

- Macemen destroy infantry. This is good. Nothing better than watching one of 'em one-shot an enemy 
- Waiting for the enemy to come at you is better than going after him with your infantry. Enemy units tend to come one at a time, and that's when they die to my wall of pikemen 

 

[Aeon221]

Just to answer the big questions:

Update _is_ save compatible!  As usual there aren't any script changes, and I'm not removing any units -- although I will be shifting some of their gear or tree positions, they'll still exist, which means it won't break anything. At worst, some of your troopers will magically change name, and it'll take a few days for the changes to percolate through to the lords.

But I can say with 100% assurance, having done all my updates to the same save, that the changes will not break your save so long as you keep it in the same module!

A'ight, I've been doing some testing with the following settings, playing as the Rhodoks.

- Wages: default
- Leadership: 15 units per skill level
- Food consumption - Less food consumption
- Troop recruitment at villages: minimum friendship level to get large recruitment is 0 (to speed up getting a big infantry army)

Everything else is pretty much as default.

So far I've only played for an hour or two, and this is what I've noticed:

- The infantry travels very tightly in the battlefield, even without the "Stay closer" order. This is good
- They all have appropriate weapon/armor/skill combos, or at least that's what I've seen so far.
- Not sure if this is intentional or what, but I'm getting really close to getting a high level infantry troop, a Veteran Sargeant, if I remember correctly. In only two hours, that's kinda fast. I have 5 Cleavermen, 5 Pikemen, a dozen or so Infantry, and a Veteran Pikeman.
- Having a big army means a lot of money to pay in wages, even for infantry. I'm considering tweaking the mod to reduce army wages.
- Having a big infantry based army means, well, waiting a long time to clash against the enemy. I'd suggest bumping up the Athletics skill of all Infantry units by at least 1 point (I'd personally do it by 2) to make battles more exciting, so that the enemy and your troops meet sooner.
- In battles against looters, mountain bandits, and deserters, my army did alright. And this was with slightly favorable odds. I'd basically have them charge or form a tight line, and I always end up losing a handful of Cleavermen or Pikemen, which is odd, since they should be tougher than the regular recruits.

That's all I can think of. I haven't fought cavalry yet, so I'll let you know when I do. If you have any questions, do let me know

Thanks for the feedback!

I'd definitely recommend checking the suggested TweakMB settings I have on the first page, as they might help you with some ideas on how to balance lower cost troopers!

So, key question since I don't see you mentioning them: are you using crossbowmen? While the mod is "infantry" focused, I generally consider the ranged guys to be a healthy part of a good breakfast, and keep them at 1/3rd of my troop composition.

I'm also curious to find out whether you're using the skirmishers, and how handy you find them -- I particularly like them when fighting the various wandering bandit groups, as their large shields, high speed and ready supply of javs makes them a particularly good force for screening the main line.

It's interesting to me that you seem to not be forming them up too heavily. If you read the Battle Command Quickie in the OP, I'm something of a micromanager when it comes to how my soldiers fight, so it's definitely helpful to find out what other people are doing! One thing that might surprise you (especially if you're used to the rapid pace of cavalry!) is that, other than the pikemen, the infantry do in fact have rather good scores on Athletics. High level Cleavermen, off the top of my head, have a score of five -- second only to the skirmisher lines and the Nord infantry lines, which top out at nine (for nord skirmishers, the other skirmisher lines top out at eight) and six respectively. But keeping in mind that you're fighting with loose organization, I think your casualty numbers are perfectly normal. I'd actually be extremely worried if you had said you were fighting and not losing anything!

/edit
Oh and I see you found the macemen! I feel like they're probably my best idea ever, and I can almost certainly die happy having thought of them! Just be careful, as they are fragile as hell.
/closeedit
Shimmy is right about the lack of AI changes and the troop levels being close to native -- I think you'll find that knights tend to have higher levels than infantry, so the development time between the two is different.

Thanks for the report, and feel free to keep me posted on how things go. Be careful fighting those Mamelukes!

I'm playing with Nords. Luckily I'm at war with swadia so i can test new ati-cav line. I've made another battle group with them, and just before enemy cavarly hits  I'm sending them forward. They are pretty good at slowing or even stoping cavarly, while rest of my forces throw axes/javelins and fight with those who managed to get through. Works pretty nice.


Also i'm seeing more infantry/less cavarly in lords armies in general.

Do you tend to keep the skirmishers in a close line, in a multi-rank formation or spread? I'm glad the skirmishers are actually useful, as I was worried that they'd be too light to be really viable against enemy cav.

That hurt's dude. And I'm not really seeing the point. Throwing axes are Nord's bread and butter, but not in a game-breaking way. I admit that your work looks impressive, it's well thought in general, but I just don't get it.  Our only throwing unit is gonna be anti-cavarly skirmisher?

How about giving a high-end choice between huscarl and heavy axe-thrower?

I think I'm going to wait on dropping the Nord throwing axes until I've really had a chance to poke at them. I still feel like giving them lighter throwing equipment is a good idea, because having heavily armed and armored infantry with limited range capability just feels wrong to me from a balance perspective.

On the other hand, I've also kept native's severely limited Nord development, so it might be fine. I think it's a plan I'll shelve pending my spending some more time thinking about it and any time testing them.







I'm gonna get cleaned up and take care of a few things, but the update should be all done by  noon (and for those waiting on the sekrit Khergit plan, I've got them dotmapped and planned out, and they'll be in this update in their new unique form). Due to all of you kind people, v1.2 stands at exactly 99 downloads as of this post. Thanks!

 

[Shimmmy]

Do you tend to keep the skirmishers in a close line, in a multi-rank formation or spread? I'm glad the skirmishers are actually useful, as I was worried that they'd be too light to be really viable against enemy cav.

Usually I'm squeezing them tight, so enemy cavarly  bumps into several spears not just one, but at the same time line have to be long enough to protect archers staying behind. They're usefull but they need proper support, they're better (than main Nords inf) at holding cavarly at spot but they're dying quite fast, so they serve maybe not as a hard counter, but rather as a nice meat wall

I think I'm going to wait on dropping the Nord throwing axes until I've really had a chance to poke at them. I still feel like giving them lighter throwing equipment is a good idea, because having heavily armed and armored infantry with limited range capability just feels wrong to me from a balance perspective.

On the other hand, I've also kept native's severely limited Nord development, so it might be fine. I think it's a plan I'll shelve pending my spending some more time thinking about it and any time testing them.

Good to hear that.

 

[androsh]

So, key question since I don't see you mentioning them: are you using crossbowmen? While the mod is "infantry" focused, I generally consider the ranged guys to be a healthy part of a good breakfast, and keep them at 1/3rd of my troop composition.

I did get a ratio of crossbowmen like you suggest, but I can't comment on 'em as of now; I'm new to having xbow + infantry combo, so I'll have to test it out some more to say aye or nay

I'm also curious to find out whether you're using the skirmishers, and how handy you find them -- I particularly like them when fighting the various wandering bandit groups, as their large shields, high speed and ready supply of javs makes them a particularly good force for screening the main line.

I'm curious as well  I have like 5, but I need to find a way to keep track of 'em in battle, to see how they work. They look nifty.

Should I consider them infantry or archers? 

But keeping in mind that you're fighting with loose organization, I think your casualty numbers are perfectly normal. I'd actually be extremely worried if you had said you were fighting and not losing anything!

Oh, good, I was getting worried.

/edit
Oh and I see you found the macemen! I feel like they're probably my best idea ever, and I can almost certainly die happy having thought of them! Just be careful, as they are fragile as hell.
/closeedit

They don't have shields, so agreed, very fragile. They remind me of berserker warriors.

Thanks for the report, and feel free to keep me posted on how things go. Be careful fighting those Mamelukes!

No problem. And Mamelukes? *shudder* Good God, not even with an army of 300 Sergeant Pikemen 

 

[Aeon221]

Ok, I've finally got final faction setups for the Rhodoks, Vaegirs, Swads and Sarranids.

Rhodoks:

Cleavermen never really clicked for me as the Rho main line unit -- name was incorrect since they used pick, cleaver, glaive, 2h cleaver, and thematically it was wrong that they weren't using spears or something. So I've switched things around and the Pike line (starting with Militia Pike instead of Footman) is now the primary tree of the Rho inf line, with most units branching out of it. Cleavers are now Boards, and there is no longer a t5 Boardman -- although there is now a t4 cleaverman who uses a war cleaver.

Their tree now branches out to 7 units in total, each of which has their own weapon specialization:

t5: Sgt. Pike, Sgt. Xbow, Sgt. Glaive (t4 pike branch)
t4: Mace (t3 pike branch), Cleaver (t3 board branch), Vet. Board, Vet. Skirmisher

This is the final Rho tree, and helps deal with a lot of the problems I had with their original design and subsequent redesigns.

Vaegirs:

They're not changing much from the v2 redesign. I've added a t3.5 polemace (like the nord 2h axeman, he's overpowered for his tier) to give the Vaegirs some blunt damage, and the skirmisher line I've long considered (bow/shield/spear), but that's about it. I've also renamed the t5 units to all include the word guard as part of my t5 name standardization across faction lines. I figure by t5 they're all pretty much sharing the same look, and they seem like actual organized soldiers rather than just random peasants, so they damn well better have a shared name.

t6: Champion
t5: Guard, Guard Archer, Guard Skirmisher (t4-t5 branch from t3 archer)
t4: Horseman (t3 inf branch)
t3: Pike, Mace (t2 pike branch)

Swadians:

The Swadians are getting a t3-t4 Poleaxe branch to give them some moderately quick infantry beyond the t5 Squire -- however, he'll be nowhere near as quick as the Skirmishers of other factions, just faster than the average Swadian. They lack blunt damage, as is traditional, but their t4 Man at Arms is still a potent horse unit. And there is, of course, the t6 Swadian Knight, the only horse unit still equipped with a warhorse (DUN DUN DUUUUUN). Even with the Knight t6'd and rarer, they should still be potent -- but I might have to beef up the infantry a tad if they turn out to be a wet rag, so definitely give me some feedback on this! They share the t5 naming convention with the Rhodoks for thematic reasons. Squires ignore this convention, as they are "noble" units.

t6: Knight
t5: Sergeant at Arms, Sgt. Xbow, Squire
t4: Man at Arms, Vet. Axe (t4-t3 branch from t2 Pike)
t3: Pike

Sarranids:

They're getting a t3-t4 skirmisher line (1h axe/shield/jarids) that splits from their archers. They're also dropping their pikes for axemen -- I thought about how they'd fight, and realized that, since their main infantry line is spearmen, they utterly lacked any assault infantry force. Hence, a t2-t3 2h Axe line using their faction specific gear.  I'm also changing the main infantry line to use (spear/shield/sword) from (spear/shield/random stuff), so that should make them better suited to the role of protecting the assault, skirmish and archer lines from enemy inf/horse attacks. Same caveat as the Swads with regard to the t6'ing of the Mameluke and the possible need for a beefier infantry force, but since they can now fill the faces of their foes with jarids from a t5 skirmisher and a t4 light cav, I'm a lot less worried than with the Swadians. They follow the naming conventions of the Vaegirs, mostly because they do it in Vanilla too -- and their squire ignores the convention for the same reason as the Swadian one.

t6: Mameluke
t5: Guard, Guard Archer, Guard Skirmisher (t4-t5 branch from t3 archer), Squire
t4: Horseman (t3 infantry branch)
t3: Axe


The other two factions are still fluid, but these four are feature complete save for any necessary balancing. I'm going to get a new build ready to go for tomorrow to allow for comments on the current build, and on these ideas. As always, it'll be save compatible. As usual, feel free to tell me it's ****!


edit: Changed the Sarranid idea! Always happens that you change your mind RIGHT after you say something is finished!

editx2: Ok, I've got 2.5 completed, but I'm going to wait on input before I release it. In the mean time, be envious, be very very envious.

 

[Aeon221]

I posted v2.5, partly because I'm impatient! Check the OP for the changelog details.

As always, it's compatible with saves made in previous versions of the module.

 

[Shimmmy]

Oh, lol new version

Anyway, i was playing some Khergits in 2.0. I like the idea of all horses army. 3 things I've noticed:

- Pikemen are a real pain
- Khergit armoured horseman?? Basically a Swadian Man-at-arms thrown into the Khergits, why?
- Damn fast armies. It's an issue when you're fighting against them. You just can't escape from powerfull lords.

EDIT: One thing after reading 2.5 changelog: Mamelukes had squires? ORLY?

 

[Aeon221]

Oh, lol new version

Anyway, i was playing some Khergits in 2.0. I like the idea of all horses army. 3 things I've noticed:

- Pikemen are a real pain
- Khergit armoured horseman?? Basically a Swadian Man-at-arms thrown into the Khergits, why?
- Damn fast armies. It's an issue when you're fighting against them. You just can't escape from powerfull lords.

EDIT: One thing after reading 2.5 changelog: Mamelukes had squires? ORLY?

If you look at the readme, all the non-t5 Khergit tree ends are actually the horsemen of other factions, just toned down slightly. I wanted the Khergs to feel more like the invading horde the lore makes them out to be, and thus they're assimilating the fighting styles -- and even soldiers -- of the other factions. It also gives them some heavier foot troops for assaults on castles, which is an area I've always felt they needed help in.

As to the Mameluke Squire thing, if you know a better name go nuts. I went with Squire because it's an easily understood term, and because I'm fairly certain the Mamelukes in game are supposed to be Knights rather than the slave warriors of history.

And yeah, pikes can be a son of a *****! Be careful though, as the factions that don't have pikes make heavy use of throwing weapons, and that can be way worse for the invading cavalry horde.

How do you think the Khergs feel balance wise? Are you running over the AI lords with ease, or are they putting up a stiff fight?

 

[chunzhu]

Playing as Rhodok and so far, it's been tons of fun. Good job on a great little mod!

 

[Aeon221]

Thanks! Any details you feel up to providing on how the Rhodoks are playing and how you're doing against the other factions would be great!



****
Kay, so I'm done with the planning phase for the mercenaries.

Here's a link to their original tree:

http://strategywiki.org/wiki/Mount%26Blade/Neutral

Note how screwy it is, with foot upgrading to cav upgrading to foot. I'll need some housekeeping units to provide some space to maneuver! My overall goal is still to make these guys the crossbow faction. Crossbows are terrible weapons for foot skirmishers -- slow reload, inability to move while reloading, no suppression capability -- but they make great secondary weapons for units that only intend to fire them once or twice in the course of a battle -- long shot hold time, great damage, ability to punch through shields at short range. And while you can't skirmish effectively with them on foot, all the major disadvantages disappear when you're on horse and can dash off while reloading, or change weapons and charge in!

Anyway, here are the currently planned troopers. As always, be sure to tell me if they're ****!

a t2 xbow -- housekeeping

a t3 vet watchman -- housekeeping

t2 melee no longer upgrades to xbow

t3 horse no longer upgrades back to melee

a t4 xbow/2hsword assault trooper (branch off t3 melee line) -- you'd put it up front, have it fire once into the charging enemy, and then hit "hold fire" and "charge"

a t4 xbow/pike (branch off t3 xbow line) -- you'd have them mixed in with your main archers, then hit "hold fire" when the enemy cav comes near and they'd pop pikes and fight

a t4 xbow/shield/sword -- standard xbow intended to +1 existing cruddy xbow

a t4-t5 mounted xbow/sword/shield (branch off t3 cav line -- a mounted archer unit for the non-khergits, not nearly as good as the real deal but provides similar capability
 

Should make for some interesting multi-function units that provide some additional (fun!) capabilities without obsoleting any of the faction troops (or breaking caravans). Well, except maybe the t2-t3 pike lines that the Swads/Vaegs have, but since those are vestigial units anyway, it's not a big deal.

I might add a t5 that branches off the t4 melee line, but I can't think of any role for it that hasn't already been filled by one of the other lines.

I'm going to do my best to resist the urge to immediately implement all this, as I would love some feedback on how the rest of the changes are working out. Plus I think everyone would like to play with a stable version for a little bit (lol).

edit:

At the time of this post, version 2.5 has been downloaded 203 times in 28 hours.
Including all the versions, this mod has been downloaded 419 times in three days.
Thanks!

 

[Leowulf]

Great job dude, love how you've put so much thought into the tactical aspects of the troop and their balance.

Just a coupla suggestions;

1.Maybe you should keep the khergits as a purely mounted faction, since generally as a counter, light missile cavalry never has an issue fighting any form of infantry in the open. The armoured horsemen work fine, since the Golden Horde did have heavy cav, similar both in form and function to the Byzantine cataphracts.

2.You could rename the Cleavermen as Guildsmen, since the Rhodoks are based upon an urbanized culture(Lombards, Venetian etc..), that would make sense given their generally tool-based weapons. Urban mob/rabble given weapons and some drill.

3. Mounted crossbowmen for mercs are awesome. I've been working on a personalized mod that specifically gives the mercs a unique culture quite foreign to the other Calradian factions, much like the better condottiere, well-armed and armoured with more modernized weapons but cheap horses, think early dragoons,
mounted for quick deployment and for light skirmishing against infantry, but best dismounted on tactical high ground against true cavalry.