Ridiculously low damage?

[DasKinkyWalrus]

So, 80 damage from a musket shot is what you'd call low damage?
I mean, let's subtract effective armour from that, since this is pierce damage. Pierce damage tend to ignore about half of armour, so with the standard 23 armour clothing we can estimate that damage is about 67 to the body on an average hit.

But there are other factors, such as whether the target is moving towards you or you towards him which has some effect, then there's distance traveled to target which does in fact have an effect on warband projectile damage.

So assuming that both the firer and the target are standing still, and that the hit is point blank with an 80 damage musket, and the target has 20-25 armour, there will be a damage result of about 65-70 to the body.

Base health is 35 HP with 0 STR and 0 Ironflesh, so the minimum of 65 HP requires either 30 STR alone, or 10 IF and 10 STR, or as the player who intends to get shot may build his character, 18STR and 6 Ironflesh.

With this you can survive a single musket shot, assuming it doesn't hit you in the head in which case you have no chance at all without cheating or using decreased damage.

So the only guys I expect might not die to a standard musket shot are Curassiers of French or Austrian variety, or a very lucky elite Grenadier.

Muskets kill in one hit with 80 damage every target who would be expected to go down in a hit.
The average STR for most AI units is around 10.
That's 45 HP assuming no Ironflesh. This target will likely die to a single pistol shot according to the rules above, and that's often what I see play out in fact when I shoot a highwayman.

All this seems pretty fair to me. The fact that I have to lower the difficulty to not die every single time I get shot is reason enough for me to suspect that ranged damage is more than high enough.

Finally, large caliber ball ammunition is not quite the deathray you seem to think it is.
Shot placement is everything and always has been. You shoot a man in the arm with a lead ball and... now he has a hole in his arm the size of that lead ball. It doesn't necessarily kill him.
The same can be said of bodyshots which do not strike vital organs.

Now the man has two options. He can seek medical attention or he can keep fighting with his wounds, as men often did.

People do not seem to understand that a standard ball round of any type, modern or otherwise is nothing more than a small piece of metal going very fast. It will often go straight through a man if it doesn't slow down fast enough, and even if it does stop, lead balls do not deform or fragment usually unless they strike bone.

It's no different from a smoothbore shotgun slug. One simply has more modern manufacturing techniques and more consistent powder charges for more accurate shot groupings.

Hit the brain stem or brain and you have instant death.
Hit the heart, lungs, or liver and you've got a definite fast kill.
Hit the spinal column and you have incapacitation.
Hit a large blood vessel and you have a fast and probably mortal wound, but not necessarily incapacitation.

Now, I don't usually play this card, but on this situation, I will. As a reenactor of the American Civil War these balls do not just go right through you leaving a hole the size of the initial ball itself. These are soft lead, the entry hole every time will be roughly the size of the ball, but as it is inside you (dragging in whatever it hit into your body) the ball begins to flatten and to roll, making the exit wound absolutely massive. Roughly the size of a softball. Also, because it is low velocity, if it hits a bone, it wont break it. Instead it will shatter it. Leaving it unrepairable.


So you're telling me if it misses vital organs it's very likely it wont kill you?


That's not the way this ammunition is designed, sorry. Should be a one hit kill unless said target is around 170m away.

Or at least one shot incapacitate

If you're lucky

hello is this Giza,,,  tnx :^)

 

[Gremlin7775]

Nope. It isnt

 

[shaelor]

My perspective is different. I don't think the engine is suited to one-shot kills. If infantry can survive up to two shots that would be good for gameplay.

At the current stats my low level cavalry man kills everything with a shot to the dead or a slash with his sabre.

 

[Count Roland]

To be honest, the damage is really not the best. I play on full damages(even for myself) and I was shooting an some polish horseman. He could take 3 shots before he fell dead. On the other hand, same happens to me. I can easily survive 1-2 shots, even on a close range. Swords' damage is more ore less good, all you need is a sword with damage around 30-35(swing). Riding a horse and hittin with a sword like this, can do aroun 100 damage. But as said, the damage of muskets is pretty low. If a musket hits you, you definitely won't fight on. However, it would be nice to count blood loss.

 

[Patchouli Knowledge]

The damage on muskets is huge.

 

[Fraziel]

The master has spoken..

 

[SolidXerm]

The damage on muskets is huge.

That's excellent, Docm, but I still have to shoot a soldier at least twice or thrice before they die. My musketry skill is roughly 130 and I am using a Hunting Musket on my Grenzer character but I can only get an instant-kill if I am shooting from pointblank. In a usual fight, I walk up reasonably close to the enemy so that one of them at least takes up half of the aiming reticle before I shoot. The people I have been recently fighting against were Bayerische Grenadiers and Polish Fusiliers.

 

[masterborn12]

as i said , the musket damage for me isnt the problem. Its just the melee that should get improved because ive seen farmers killing Line infantry like they were nothing

 

[Zirkhovsky]

That's excellent, Docm, but I still have to shoot a soldier at least twice or thrice before they die. My musketry skill is roughly 130 and I am using a Hunting Musket on my Grenzer character but I can only get an instant-kill if I am shooting from pointblank. In a usual fight, I walk up reasonably close to the enemy so that one of them at least takes up half of the aiming reticle before I shoot. The people I have been recently fighting against were Bayerische Grenadiers and Polish Fusiliers.

Bayerische Grenadiers have exceptionally high health (65) compared to conventional troops (45). A musket shot at around 60 yards do around 40-70 points of damage, so you might just have to hit them more or just lower their strength through modding.

 

[SolidXerm]

I didn't know it was intentional, pardon me! Most of my shots with the Hunting Musket usually deal 35 or 40 damage.

 

[RalliX]

Now, I don't usually play this card, but on this situation, I will. As a reenactor of the American Civil War these balls do not just go right through you leaving a hole the size of the initial ball itself. These are soft lead, the entry hole every time will be roughly the size of the ball, but as it is inside you (dragging in whatever it hit into your body) the ball begins to flatten and to roll, making the exit wound absolutely massive. Roughly the size of a softball. Also, because it is low velocity, if it hits a bone, it wont break it. Instead it will shatter it. Leaving it unrepairable.

So you're telling me if it misses vital organs it's very likely it wont kill you?

That's not the way this ammunition is designed, sorry. Should be a one hit kill unless said target is around 170m away.

Well firstly, the Minie ball is not quite the same as a musket ball. The Minie was a much more effective shape, and it was spin stabilized. But even Minie balls failed to kill at times. I'd say that there are plenty of hits you can make with even a rifled musket loaded with minie ball that don't involve immediately killing or incapacitating your target.

A proper shot in the chest will definitely down a target, but simple flesh wounds are not deadly.

You can't really accurately measure firearms damage in games fairly using a simple point system. Real firearms follow the laws of physics and the best way of measuring their capabilities is with a locational damage system ala Red Orchestra.

I think a musket has good enough damage when it can be relied upon to kill in a hit. And it can in this game, unless you're using a 60 damage weapon.

Also, Protip Solid: Don't use hunting musket on Grenadiers. This only makes them angrier, and does not kill them. They feel insulted when shot by a weak hunting load. You must oblige them with a full powder load.

 

[Gremlin7775]

Now, I don't usually play this card, but on this situation, I will. As a reenactor of the American Civil War these balls do not just go right through you leaving a hole the size of the initial ball itself. These are soft lead, the entry hole every time will be roughly the size of the ball, but as it is inside you (dragging in whatever it hit into your body) the ball begins to flatten and to roll, making the exit wound absolutely massive. Roughly the size of a softball. Also, because it is low velocity, if it hits a bone, it wont break it. Instead it will shatter it. Leaving it unrepairable.

So you're telling me if it misses vital organs it's very likely it wont kill you?

That's not the way this ammunition is designed, sorry. Should be a one hit kill unless said target is around 170m away.

Well firstly, the Minie ball is not quite the same as a musket ball. The Minie was a much more effective shape, and it was spin stabilized. But even Minie balls failed to kill at times. I'd say that there are plenty of hits you can make with even a rifled musket loaded with minie ball that don't involve immediately killing or incapacitating your target.

A proper shot in the chest will definitely down a target, but simple flesh wounds are not deadly.

You can't really accurately measure firearms damage in games fairly using a simple point system. Real firearms follow the laws of physics and the best way of measuring their capabilities is with a locational damage system ala Red Orchestra.

I think a musket has good enough damage when it can be relied upon to kill in a hit. And it can in this game, unless you're using a 60 damage weapon.

Also, Protip Solid: Don't use hunting musket on Grenadiers. This only makes them angrier, and does not kill them. They feel insulted when shot by a weak hunting load. You must oblige them with a full powder load.

I never specified Minie ball. I ment your basic lead ball.

 

[Gremlin7775]

The damage on muskets is huge.

Not huge enough I guess

 

[RalliX]

I never specified Minie ball. I ment your basic lead ball.

American Civil war rifled muskets almost invariably fired the Minie ball. Lead balls themselves, again, are about the same weight as and around the same caliber as a twelve gauge shotgun slug. They also tend to fly at similar velocities.

Again, not a deathray. Very deadly but a bad hit is still a bad hit, and long distances can weaken its power considerably.

 

[Gremlin7775]

I never specified Minie ball. I ment your basic lead ball.

American Civil war rifled muskets almost invariably fired the Minie ball. Lead balls themselves, again, are about the same weight as and around the same caliber as a twelve gauge shotgun slug. They also tend to fly at similar velocities.

Again, not a deathray. Very deadly but a bad hit is still a bad hit, and long distances can weaken its power considerably.

You do understand around half the weapons in the American Civil War didn't use minie balls right..?

Also, why relate it to a twelve gauge when you can just. I dunno. Relate it to the proper ammunition? 

 

[Vraelomon]

I feel like somethings about to go down...

Aside from that, if you find your having trouble with musketry, try using the rifled carbine. Great accuracy and shot damage, plus it doubles as a melee polarm. It does take a while to reload, but I really dont think I've ever hit anybody and not killed them, so its well worth it, IMO. You may want to bring a side arm though.