Progress/Development Thread

[quapitty]

I've increased the number of town_walkers (x3), towns seem certainly more lively now (specially the ones using custom scenes, which are way bigger than native's). I've also given the townsfolk a big more variety in terms of clothing.

Very good!

2-3 by scene type (town, castle and village) and cultural/geographic belonging, like Revan said, but not necessarily as big as MTW 2 towns (whose buidlings are particularly unrealistic btw), because this is too much work.

They should be as big as possible to make the player feel he is in a city. I'm talking about a size like the one of the already done Nuremberg and Bremen.

Well, actually Nürnberg is a small scene by the size of the scene map. I just filled the space efficently. I think that is the way to go. I chose a big scene map for Bremen, because I had to edit a lot of the terrain - also because of the limited hilly background. But as some people's computers had already problems obviously, I think it is better to do medium size scenes. But of course with creating the illusion of a big place. But as I wrote earlier somewhere here some cities had about 2000 inhabitants and some about 10000. Which is pretty small for today's circumstances.

 

[Revan Shan]

I've increased the number of town_walkers (x3), towns seem certainly more lively now (specially the ones using custom scenes, which are way bigger than native's). I've also given the townsfolk a big more variety in terms of clothing.

Very good!

2-3 by scene type (town, castle and village) and cultural/geographic belonging, like Revan said, but not necessarily as big as MTW 2 towns (whose buidlings are particularly unrealistic btw), because this is too much work.

They should be as big as possible to make the player feel he is in a city. I'm talking about a size like the one of the already done Nuremberg and Bremen.

Well, actually Nürnberg is a small scene by the size of the scene map. I just filled the space efficently. I think that is the way to go. I chose a big scene map for Bremen, because I had to edit a lot of the terrain - also because of the limited hilly background. But as some people's computers had already problems obviously, I think it is better to do medium size scenes. But of course with creating the illusion of a big place. But as I wrote earlier somewhere here some cities had about 2000 inhabitants and some about 10000. Which is pretty small for today's circumstances.

In my mod all the cities use the maximum space avaliable. Maybe they don't fill it all, but if they don't borders and the horizon look much more reallistic. And if they need more space I simply make the center of the city or the entrance, and build the rest in the distance, so the place is quite big already, but the city looks as if it continued to a place where the character cannot go. Closen interior gates, further hauses... etc.

 

[Jaume]

Is the byzantine empire, o the latin empire, trebizond, etc...?

Have the crusader states,etc..?

 

[Tsewe]

*Edited 2nd post, 1st page* don't forget to make clear statements if you think it is worth adding to the 2nd post - 1st page*

@Jaume : Please search the forum before asking such questions. You can usually find answers in the FAQ thread. We already told too many people that we add factions from west to east, so we'll eventually get to Byzantine empire. Repeating this answer can become annoying, so I ask you again please search before asking such questions. Same goes for "when will the next beta be released?". That's why you will receive sarcastic answers. That applies to anyone.

@Revan Shan : I wrote down 2 questions in the 2nd post of this thread in italic capital letters. Do you happen to know the answer?
I think the best for big scenes is to make it big, but to restrict the player's "walkable" area - that way he gets the feeling the town is pretty big. For unique scenes, which will be very big, we need to make biiiiig ones just for the landscapes to look a bit realistic.


@Korinov: I noticed the link from the "Download and Description ..." thread for the "Progress / Dev" part leads to the old thread, not to this one. Nice job with the town walkers!

@Mihailo: GaYoda! hahaha thats a good one! Ok OSP i'll remember this one. I watched the South Park movie recently, and Gandhi was in hell with Hitler, that was hilarious.

 

[Al_Mansur]

Suggestions for Iberian armors that I made long time ago:

Spoiler

Spoiler

I know that Cesar made a lot of Iberian armors, and they a re really nice, but unfortunately his sources were too late (mid 13th century).

I have a long hauberk model if you are interested Korinov.

 

[Korinov]

Leave it in Al Mansur's files, inside our shared Dropbox folder, and I'll be more than happy to give it a look 

 

[Al_Mansur]

Ok, but it hasn't any texture for the moment (although the UV mapping is done). I advice to use a modified texture of Native.

The new tower with hoardings:

Spoiler

 

[quapitty]

Ok, but it hasn't any texture for the moment (although the UV mapping is done). I advice to use a modified texture of Native.

The new tower with hoardings:

Spoiler

It may get boring to bear all the praise - but: Great! 

BTW Any new insight on that cathedral model??

 

[Cèsar de Quart]

Suggestions for Iberian armors that I made long time ago:

Spoiler

Spoiler

I know that Cesar made a lot of Iberian armors, and they a re really nice, but unfortunately his sources were too late (mid 13th century).

I have a long hauberk model if you are interested Korinov.

You've always been right, but still, I would like to keep the uniformity of those perpuncti into the noble class. I totally agree with the need for more mail, though.

PS: I'll get my Wings stuff together and get back to finish those God damn Roman architecture models... I got stucked in the Triumph Arch, but well, it was too damn difficult to make it "cracked" by time.

 

[Al_Mansur]

Don't worry, I never thought about deleting yours

 

[Tsewe]

**Updated 2nd post on 1st page**
little one - i just added al mansur's thread about the OSP packs in landscape (in textures section)
also added the scene borders suggestions in landscape scenes

Oh and, if someone wanna do some tree props, please dont be shy

 

[Al_Mansur]

We should make a list of the trees and plants we need, then examine all the OSP packs and minimods that contain flora in the case they have some of the models we need, and finally make the lacking ones.

 

[Tsewe]

Sure i've already written some of which we agreed on.
Check the 2nd post - its all there. Just tell which one you'd add.

 

[Al_Mansur]

Mainly birches, polars, beeches, oaks..

 

[MihailoSRB]

Ok, a little progress from the research department... 
Since several people complained that the ''strong'' factions England, France and HRE do not have any ladies you can marry, I did a little digging and found a few for England and Scotland. I will try to find some ladies for France, HRE, Italian states, as well as any who need them.
I have also added/fixed some problems with the English relations, which were non existent.
Note that this is not perfect, because there are a lot of English lords (of some I even couldn't find any info, and some appear to have died before 1200), and it's a heavy mess really, so if I have missed anything... I don't care. 

Marriagable ladies for England (all fathers/brothers of those ladies are English lords who are in E1200):

Spoiler

Isabelle d’Angoulême
0x0000000020100004428aad251c92b4d400000000001dd2f30000000000000000
daughter of Aymar Taillefer and Alice de Courtenay
Now, I know she was 12, but she was married in 1200 to King John of England. And since she married in October, and the game starts in March, then I guess it's OK not to put her as John's wife.
If you want to make her mother - Alice too, here's a face:
0x0000000e30000004271250b34058c6e100000000001e29dd0000000000000000

Margery Bigod
0x00000001b704200638dd96a28b863ccc00000000000ac8720000000000000000
Mary Bigod
0x0000000180042005266b5242a9ae398900000000000e24f20000000000000000
Alice Bigod
0x00000001ab04200146947ac92386592000000000000e44dd0000000000000000
all three are daughters of Roger Bigod

Maud de Blundeville
0x00000000001000046da074ab2192c6ac0000000000112c9c0000000000000000
Mabel de Blundeville
0x000000000c00200626cc89c69975a6db000000000011cd1d0000000000000000
Agnes de Blundeville
0x000000000f0420034cdab6b51351d6c600000000001658cd0000000000000000
Hawise de Blundeville
0x00000000080820033b6d32d962725dca00000000000da31d0000000000000000
sisters of Ranulf de Blundeville

Adela de Warene
0x00000003340400012ae376449e8e06c3000000000015acd40000000000000000
daughter of Hamelin de Warenne

Sybil de Ferrers
0x000000032904200318198dc862ca6a8d000000000011cb2a0000000000000000
daughter of William de Ferrers

Amicia de Beaumont
0x000000030008100134f46928d28b34d400000000001d36e40000000000000000
Margaret de Beaumont
0x000000030e0c0005574b4d79a98a2b1400000000001db8120000000000000000
sisters of Robert de Beaumont

Maud le Botiller
0x0000000313040004584daa470e66b71100000000001ad45a0000000000000000
Beatrice le Botiller
0x00000003391010042ccc91952c91b32b00000000001548e70000000000000000
daughters of Theobald Walter

Some more marriagable ladies for Scotland:

Spoiler

Margaret
0x00000006e1040006265c8946636546a600000000001d5b750000000000000000
daughter of King William of Scotland.
Note that she can also be put as a wife to Eustace de Vesci, but I don't know when they were married, so both things are possible - that she was a single or a married lady.

Aufrica
0x0000000021100002391b4c2b498e36dd00000000001fb6db0000000000000000
also daughter of King Will.

*
*
*
Now, some issues concerning England:

Spoiler

- King John and Eleanore of Aquitaine should be related (son and mother).
- Hughues and Raoul Lisignani should be brothers.
- Robert de Beaumont and Waleran de B. are brothers.
- Andre de Chauvigny was a lord who was always against King John. He even supported a claimant to the throne - Arthur of Britanny, and even died while being held captive by King John. I think it would be good for him to be removed, because it really has no sense for him to be a vassal of England. I know that, f.e. Stefan and Vukan from Serbia are not in good relations, and that their conflict resulted in a war several years later from 1200, but John and Andre, however, were complete enemies in 1200, and were warring against each other. I mean, he will not miss much to England, since they already have a 1000 lords...
- Eleanore of Aquitaine is a bald woman in E1200. I know she was almost 80, but a bald head? I have created a face code for her, where she is old and has grey hair. Unless anyone has a confirmation that she was bald?
0x0000000ffe042005476e84d71650b8ad00000000001d17140000000000000000
- There is a lord called Bertran de Verdun. I found out that he died in 1192. However, he had a son Nicholas de Verdun, who was alive then, so you can simply rename Bertran to be Nicholas.
- Count Routrou du Perche died in 1191, so he can't be a lord for England. However, he was succeded by Geoffroy du Perche, so again, you can rename Routrou to become Geoffroy.

More about the Scots:

Spoiler

Scotland has several lords named Baron Stirling, or Baron Hunter, or Baron Swinton, etc.
I don't know if they are historical or not, but they are only ''filler'' lords, who obviously bear the name of their fief.
So, I have found 2 lords who can be used for Scotland (and who have full, normal names):
William de Brus, 3rd Lord of Annandale
Earl Patrick Dunbar
So, if yo think that Scotland haves enoguh lords, than just renamed some of the Barons with these two. Or, you can add these two without removing any.
Anyway, I think those 2 are well important to be in the game.

EDIT:

- Andre de Chauvigny was a lord who was always against King John. He even supported a claimant to the throne - Arthur of Britanny, and even died while being held captive by King John. I think it would be good for him to be removed, because it really has no sense for him to be a vassal of England. I know that, f.e. Stefan and Vukan from Serbia are not in good relations, and that their conflict resulted in a war several years later from 1200, but John and Andre, however, were complete enemies in 1200, and were warring against each other. I mean, he will not miss much to England, since they already have a 1000 lords...

Actually, I just saw that Arthur is a lord of France in our mod, so it would make more sense to make Andre de Chauvigny a lord of France as well, it is better then to remove him completely from the game.

 

[Korinov]

Many thanks, really. I'll have a look at the whole thing once I get home tomorrow (I have an exam in the morning).

 

[NikeBG]

And for Bohemian, Bosnian and Serbian, I made them diverse, both bearded and shaven and moustached, with hair colour ranging from light to dark.

Shaven Balkaners? Are you sure about that? I recently got a book called "Who's who in medieval Bulgaria" from the library and in it there's f.e. an article about one guy from 1250s or so, who was a "kiose" (naturally had no beard) and for that he was kinda chased (or at least strongly disliked and discriminated) by the people and had to seek refuge in Mount Athos (where, apparently, most such people found refuge) and become a monk. And even in Mt. Athos there were apparently such occasional persecutions of those people as well (they were believed to be sodomites, it seems) and that guy (Teodor Gramatik, IIRC) managed to stay only because he was a really good scribe and his abbot vouched for him. So, shaven Balkaners should be really rare, I think...

 

[MihailoSRB]

And for Bohemian, Bosnian and Serbian, I made them diverse, both bearded and shaven and moustached, with hair colour ranging from light to dark.

Shaven Balkaners? Are you sure about that?

Yes, I am sure - but I only put it to a few lords, and with good reasons.
F.e. there are Serbian lords Andrija and Đorđe in our mod.
Andrija was very, very young, probably around 15-16, so I have put him a ''kiddish'' appearance.
Granted, i already had a solid beard at 15, but I'm special. 
Now, Đorđe is 17-18 years of age + he is pro-western like his father, Vukan, so I have put him shaved not only because he was young, but also because I wanted his appearance to mimic the Western culture of shaved faces.
There was also one lord for Bosnia who was very young and shaved, but we changed it to someone more known, so he became a balding, bearded guy.
As for Bohemia, I can't remember if I put any shaven faces, and I'm not with my regular computor, so I can't check.

Although, I like your story, and I have a lot of sympathy for that guy...
Yes, beard was very important here, it seems.
We even had ''burning of the beard'' as a punishment for some crimes, as written in Dushan's Code.

 

[NikeBG]

Ah, yes, young ones are a different matter, of course. And steppe people, I presume.

 

[Mix]

:mehoskubina: By Serbian medieval law is tax you pay if you pull someones beard