There have been worse things said around these boards.
power draw and crossbows
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bishopbutters
Regular
Ah ok 
Good to know I can be a little more free with my thoughts here than on the board I moderate
I will remember that for later definitely.
Back on topic I do dislike that Xbows are essentially a convienence weapon. Possible at a new companion from Barclay where they have "invented" a new type of crossbow that can fire 2 or 3 bolts without reload but requires you to reload all 2 or 4 before firing again. I believe there was a crossbow like that in China's Mongol era I believe.
Good to know I can be a little more free with my thoughts here than on the board I moderate I will remember that for later definitely.
Back on topic I do dislike that Xbows are essentially a convienence weapon. Possible at a new companion from Barclay where they have "invented" a new type of crossbow that can fire 2 or 3 bolts without reload but requires you to reload all 2 or 4 before firing again. I believe there was a crossbow like that in China's Mongol era I believe.
lothario
Squire
.... But still not gonna matter much, guys. Raise Noldor bow to PD requirement 7? Okay, I'll get it at level 5 instead of level 2: Starting STR = 17 with proper background + 4 more levels. You still have the gem and can unlock Laria merchant. Raise the PD to 8? Okay, instead of using gem to unlock merchant, I get a potion: 17+2 from potion + 5 more levels = PD 8. I'm using a Noldor bow at char level 6 instead, and get Lethaldiran.
The problem is not so much that it's too easy to get an OP bow, it's that a viable alternative doesn't exist without a tweak on crossbows. Any reasonably sane and properly experienced player making a ranged character has no reason to choose a crossbow. FIX THAT PART! LOL You can make noldor bows have a PD requirement of 10 and people will still want to be archers instead of crossbowmen! Hell, we get a free strange rune bow, so you could be using that at level 3: 17 + 2 from potion + 2 more levels = PD 7 -- no cash required! It's friggin FREE! What? No Wolfbode show up yet? Hit rumormill in Ravenstern and spawn him for 10 denars per chance/rumor... he WILL show up soon, I promise you.
-Loth
PS @ bishop: That's nice idea with the repeater, but it will not balance the crossbow. Now you just miss 3 times really fast and then reload for a longer time instead of missing 3 times at a slower rate. I already balanced the crossbows in my game, and it worked beautifully without introducing any new items.
The problem is not so much that it's too easy to get an OP bow, it's that a viable alternative doesn't exist without a tweak on crossbows. Any reasonably sane and properly experienced player making a ranged character has no reason to choose a crossbow. FIX THAT PART! LOL You can make noldor bows have a PD requirement of 10 and people will still want to be archers instead of crossbowmen! Hell, we get a free strange rune bow, so you could be using that at level 3: 17 + 2 from potion + 2 more levels = PD 7 -- no cash required! It's friggin FREE! What? No Wolfbode show up yet? Hit rumormill in Ravenstern and spawn him for 10 denars per chance/rumor... he WILL show up soon, I promise you.
-Loth
PS @ bishop: That's nice idea with the repeater, but it will not balance the crossbow. Now you just miss 3 times really fast and then reload for a longer time instead of missing 3 times at a slower rate. I already balanced the crossbows in my game, and it worked beautifully without introducing any new items.
bishopbutters
Regular
lothario said:What? No Wolfbode show up yet? Hit rumormill in Ravenstern and spawn him for 10 denars per chance/rumor... he WILL show up soon, I promise you.
-Loth
And if we cannot afford the 10 denar rumor price? You assume we can all throw money at strangers for information that may not exist. We need to eat damnit Loth
lothario
Squire
Haha, I'm sorry I spoiled it for you, my friend... I am a little too free with divulging POP mechanics, sometimes.clant said:
The rumormill just increases the chances for army and unique spawns to appear -- they still pop out on their own without any rumors. If you tour around certain areas and hit up everybody possible, you can easily spawn a bunch of armies after a short while. The rumormill is primarily to have somebody formidable for the player to fight in order to reduce the strength of the minor faction in the victory report. But spawned armies can serve many purposes, even in early game. Spawning Wolfbode in order to get the strange runed bow is just one of them. Hostile minor faction armies can also be "kited" into areas (or each other: Jatu vs. Noldor, for example) and can serve as a disruption for sieges you want to prevent.
-Loth
bishopbutters said:
Not what anything would consider a crossbow of war in europe. They´d far more conside it as portable dart thrower useless against armoured opponents or over 10m. Definetly not something you want to use against a padded jack or gambeson.
So forget that idea. Unless you conjure up a proper model.
The idea for avoiding gear abuse is to link it to strength requirements. Why do you think has all the Noldor armour 30 STR requirement? I don´t know yet wether or not an item can have more than 1 requirement though that´s probably rather easy to find out. It´s either that or giving Lethaldiran a different bow. Raising PD past 6 is a nasty decision for such a weapon. Players will feel cheated. You aren´t getting the maximum out of that weapon anymore and have little reason to develop PD to 10. I don´t think that´s a good idea.
On crossbows - the accuracy nerf for them was done to reduce the supremacy of EAC, I´m told. Since noone has complained about it or demanded the restoration of the old status due to the performance of the AI it was a good choice.
However, Bowyers created bewitched and engraved bows, so it was only fair and proper if Barclay invented an ironsighted arbalest, kicking like a mule and dealing out some punishment. It needed a splendid model though, so if anyone happen to have one up the sleeve, feel free to contact MM and share it.
It could become the reward for a ranged order quest, a unique spawns weapon you could get off him, something sold at AAz for a QG. But definetly not regularily purchased.
But first and foremost, it needs a model. So if anyone of you hasn´t got much to do this saturday but is a gifted modeller/texturer, sign up immediately and be
As for rumor:
Some people like to gossip, others don´t. Rumor are rumors. Some are funny, some are boring, some contain a grain of truth, others are outrageous lies. It´s the reason you can´t access the Guildmaster per menue - people would never visit a town or village that way and had no chance ever to find out about them theirself. It´s a good restriction. Those who complain can´t see the greater good this parential reason does to them.
Please rethink what increasing X-bow damage would do to game balance! The reason PoP is the best mod out there is that the developers really think things through and understand there are unintended consequences. Look, the player will always have an advantage and be Godly in the game. Talk about overpowered, what about the lance? What about any fast polearm on horseback vs. any other melee weapon on horseback? You can nerf the player all you want but the player will STILL dominate, just look at Brytenwalda which got rid of lances, has power draw and power strike maxed at 5, got rid of fast horses and high armored horses, nerfed bows to be 70 accuracy and very slow, changed damage to C instead of P, increased armor penalties and player mobility on foot. Guess what? I can still dominate the battlefield.
Right now Empire Armored X-bowmen are deadly. They are already the best ranged troop due to their excellent melee ability and shield as well, the Ravenstern Ranger does not have the same melee or staying power. If you increase the X-bow power and accuracy or give multiple shots without reloading, would that create a severe imbalance in the game? Focus should be on how the AI would be effected by the changes, not the player. The player is simply not going to be stopped by these changes, hell get rid of all bows for the player and I will still get the most kills.
By the way, if you start the game with 17 strength, don't you give up other stats like agility (necessary to ride good horses and looting), intelligence (training ability, inventory management), and charisma (leadership, party size)? There is a tradeoff. Perhaps the Nolder Bows need to be nerfed like all the Rune Bows have been, but please consider what the changes will do to the AI and faction balance first. That is the most important factor.
Right now Empire Armored X-bowmen are deadly. They are already the best ranged troop due to their excellent melee ability and shield as well, the Ravenstern Ranger does not have the same melee or staying power. If you increase the X-bow power and accuracy or give multiple shots without reloading, would that create a severe imbalance in the game? Focus should be on how the AI would be effected by the changes, not the player. The player is simply not going to be stopped by these changes, hell get rid of all bows for the player and I will still get the most kills.
By the way, if you start the game with 17 strength, don't you give up other stats like agility (necessary to ride good horses and looting), intelligence (training ability, inventory management), and charisma (leadership, party size)? There is a tradeoff. Perhaps the Nolder Bows need to be nerfed like all the Rune Bows have been, but please consider what the changes will do to the AI and faction balance first. That is the most important factor.
Waldakoks
Regular
Well if there will be crossbow equivalent of rune bow (that only player can get it) i think it wont change anything to AI because they wont have that weapon.
Also stats are not tradeoff as long as you can spend gem for 2 stats boost. In fact, you can only give points to int and ignore the rest.
Also stats are not tradeoff as long as you can spend gem for 2 stats boost. In fact, you can only give points to int and ignore the rest.
And the first 10 level come rather fast, so plenty of points to spend on your build.
If there was ever such a crappy thing like a repeater crossbow, it would something pretty similiar like the originial - a weak hand spanned dart thrower which was probably used by the D´Shar and pretty much useless against anything but peons.
I disagree on your estimation on the RR though. They may be inferior in staying power, but they definetly deal out a lot more melee damage. If I´m encountered by a RR and an EAC I´ll take out the RR first as I consider him more dangerous by far.
As I posted earlier, the decrease of crossbow accuracy from pre DLC to ~85 seems to have worked well for the AI, so it was good and proper. It may affect the PC at earlier stages and make crossbows difficult to use till you get your proficiency up but that matter is a minor tradeoff for a more balanced AI.
And to be honest, I wasn´t able to hit anything at all at longe ranges with either crossbow or bow or on the ranged training range unless it was an approaching mob you couldn´t miss. Even with the lowered accuracay the PC is able to hit more often than he misses - if he aims for the greatest possible target - till his proficiencies get into ranges where headshots become possible.
The lowered crossbow accuracy is most noteable for the player during siege attacks where you could snipe pretty well with the high accuracy crossbows. Now, with the little randomness factor, you´ll thunk your bolt into the battlements as often as into heads. Whereas you can do a crazy headshot run with a bow - and you don´t even need to zoom in or go into first person mode.
So yeah, if I had to chose a single item to be implemented in PoP, I´d go for an ironshigted arbalest, a high damage, highly precise weapon available for the player only. Because there a few things as satisfying as a good, healthy thunk.
If there was ever such a crappy thing like a repeater crossbow, it would something pretty similiar like the originial - a weak hand spanned dart thrower which was probably used by the D´Shar and pretty much useless against anything but peons.
I disagree on your estimation on the RR though. They may be inferior in staying power, but they definetly deal out a lot more melee damage. If I´m encountered by a RR and an EAC I´ll take out the RR first as I consider him more dangerous by far.
As I posted earlier, the decrease of crossbow accuracy from pre DLC to ~85 seems to have worked well for the AI, so it was good and proper. It may affect the PC at earlier stages and make crossbows difficult to use till you get your proficiency up but that matter is a minor tradeoff for a more balanced AI.
And to be honest, I wasn´t able to hit anything at all at longe ranges with either crossbow or bow or on the ranged training range unless it was an approaching mob you couldn´t miss. Even with the lowered accuracay the PC is able to hit more often than he misses - if he aims for the greatest possible target - till his proficiencies get into ranges where headshots become possible.
The lowered crossbow accuracy is most noteable for the player during siege attacks where you could snipe pretty well with the high accuracy crossbows. Now, with the little randomness factor, you´ll thunk your bolt into the battlements as often as into heads. Whereas you can do a crazy headshot run with a bow - and you don´t even need to zoom in or go into first person mode.
So yeah, if I had to chose a single item to be implemented in PoP, I´d go for an ironshigted arbalest, a high damage, highly precise weapon available for the player only. Because there a few things as satisfying as a good, healthy thunk.
Flingit said:
Mine is to skip it and allow the occultist gods of Pendor to give me a free Duskfall and anything else my little heart desires.
I thought the only way to get Duskfall was to take it from the greedy Noldor?
Arcanum
Sergeant at Arms
Nierra said:AnddyiRaynor said:Flingit said:
Mine is to skip it and allow the occultist gods of Pendor to give me a free Duskfall and anything else my little heart desires.
Nah. Too easy. Btw, how to obtain Duskfall without occult gods?
Go beat down Aeldarian the Noldor named spawn and steal his bow. Ithilrandir gets you a neat sword I think.
Yep, at PD 10 it stops being important which magic bow you are using. But then, if you are destined saviour you need to be little OPNierra said:
Anyway, let's check regular units:
Best regular bow (long composite) + best regular arrows will net you ~60 damage per hit on max PD bonus
Best crossbow, siedge one, has damage 99
Seems balanced... But for regular weapons... So, I think question is, should we have magic/advanced crossbows? Maybe dwarf one
Siege Crossbow has 92p damage
Heavy Crossbow has 79p damage
Crossbow has 69p damage
Light Crossbow has 48p damage
Hunting Crossbow has 39p damage
Maiden Crossbow has 50p damage
50 pierce damage is low? Why would you say that?
Sure, you can fire faster with a bow, but the heavier crossbows deal quite a thunk to anyone trying to engage you. Steel Bolts add another +5p to damage. So 97p damage for 18 STR. If you can hit something with it. Not too shabby.
Heavy Crossbow has 79p damage
Crossbow has 69p damage
Light Crossbow has 48p damage
Hunting Crossbow has 39p damage
Maiden Crossbow has 50p damage
50 pierce damage is low? Why would you say that?
Sure, you can fire faster with a bow, but the heavier crossbows deal quite a thunk to anyone trying to engage you. Steel Bolts add another +5p to damage. So 97p damage for 18 STR. If you can hit something with it. Not too shabby.
