Politics! Discussions, tips and tricks, etc.!

[Wendek]

Actually no, I'm pretty sure that some lords are set in stone. Meriga is always quarrelsome and I think Atis (lord of Bariyye) is as well, Clais/Plais from Swadia are always pitiless/debauched iirc. Most lords change every game, but some are decided for some reason. Likely so that the player is forced to play nice to them if he wants an enterprise in their town. Also in order to make sure that a game never has too many good or bad lords, I suppose. Which means there are probably lords that are always good, I think Delinard is one but not entirely sure about him.

 

[Michiko]

Hmm. You seem to be right. Looking at the scripts, the great lords (patriarchs of big families) have their reputation "set in stone". Here's the actual code:

         (troop_get_slot, ":reputation", ":cur_troop", slot_lord_reputation_type),
         (try_begin),
            (lt, ":reputation", 1),
            #Original behavior:
            (assign, ":reputation", ":npc_seed"),
         (try_end),

Where ":npc_seed" is the order of the troop in the faction, according to the comments. The personality types are numbered from 1-7, and the troops are ordered starting from 0:

lrep_martial        = 1 #chivalrous but not terribly empathetic or introspective, - eg Richard Lionheart, your average 14th century French baron
lrep_quarrelsome    = 2 #spiteful, cynical, a bit paranoid, possibly hotheaded - eg Robert Graves' Tiberius, some of Charles VI's uncles
lrep_selfrighteous  = 3 #coldblooded, moralizing, often cruel - eg William the Conqueror, Timur, Octavian, Aurangzeb (although he is arguably upstanding instead, particularly after his accession)
lrep_cunning        = 4 #coldblooded, pragmatic, amoral - eg Louis XI, Guiscard, Akbar Khan, Abd al-Aziz Ibn Saud
lrep_debauched      = 5 #spiteful, amoral, sadistic - eg Caligula, Tuchman's Charles of Navarre
lrep_goodnatured    = 6 #chivalrous, benevolent, perhaps a little too decent to be a good warlord - eg Hussein ibn Ali. Few well-known historical examples maybe. because many lack the drive to rise to faction leadership. Ranjit Singh has aspects
lrep_upstanding     = 7 #moralizing, benevolent, pragmatic, - eg Bernard Cornwell's Alfred, Charlemagne, Salah al-Din, Sher Shah Suri

The code from module_troops.py is a little too long to post here but it goes in this order:
Klargus
Delinard
Haringoth
Clais
Deglan
Tredian
Grainwad
Ryis

A further bit of code several lines down forces anybody with a reputation of 0 (lrep_none) to 1 (lrep_martial). Therefore, according to this, in Swadia the following reputations should always be true:

Martial: Klargus and Delinard
Quarrelsome: Haringoth
Pitiless/Sadistic: Clais
Calculating/Cunning: Deglan
Debauched: Tredian
Good-natured: Grainwad
Upstanding: Ryis

Everybody else (their sons and other lords) are randomized. I'll update the first post to reflect this. Thanks for pointing it out!

Spoiler

Now that I know where it's set, it also gives me the opportunity to tweak stuff to my liking haha.

 

[fallentrojan]

Of course we're only discussing politics in Floris (not IRL politics lol). Floris uses Diplomacy as a base, and has its own few changes to that.

Over the years I've learned a lot about playing politics and I thought I'd share some of my findings. Feel free to add to the knowledge so people, especially new players or those who have never done it before can learn stuff!

Personality Types Among Lords
First and foremost, we need to learn this. The political decisions made by lords are primarily affected by their personality. Each time you start a new game, most lords' personalities are randomized, except for a few, who are typically the patriarchs of certain families (- edit: will update this list later with the actual names of the lords whose personalities are not random). So during the start of the game whenever you can, try to meet and greet all the important people, including their family (wives, daughters, etc.). This will give you clues, and more importantly, entries in the Notes section about each lord's personality.

The different personality types and a brief description are as follows (all comments are assuming you're playing a fairly honorable or neutral play style, as I have almost no experience with playing ruthlessly):

Good-natured:
Generally peaceful, rarely starts political conflicts and is usually easy to get along with. They will still sometimes have disputes with other lords especially if some lord is too ruthless or something like that.

Upstanding:
Similar to good-natured but placing emphasis on morality. They will sometimes start political conflicts against what they consider to be improper behavior among nobility.

Martial:
A neutral personality type, usually indifferent to politics as long as they can keep their duty and honor, and the war they're fighting is for a good cause.

Cunning (a.k.a. Calculating):
Also a neutral personality type, and therefore also usually avoid starting conflicts by themselves. Unlike the martial lords, they aren't interested in duty and honor so much, and tend to love conflict because it keeps everybody on their toes. They do, however, clash a lot with upstanding lords and sometimes martial lords due to their methods of conducting war.

Quarrelsome:
These are very difficult lords to please but they tend to be powerful lords (usually owners of towns and with families). Just like their personality they quarrel with pretty much everybody, and tend to hold their loyalty to their liege very loosely. They question decisions on land distribution a lot and will often defect if they feel like they aren't being given their dues.

Sadistic (a.k.a. Pitiless):
These are warmongers and surprisingly easy to please. Just be as ruthless as they are and you can keep them happy. They enjoy battle and will sometimes clash with lords that tend to avoid battle or those that seek peace, such as the good-natured lords.

Debauched:
These lords believe their nobility makes them better than others. They will clash a lot with good-natured and upstanding lords, and often against the martial and cunning lords... pretty much everybody.

Note that all lords dislike being lied to (such as if you promised to give them land and don't deliver). They also dislike it if you keep going against them, such as their vote for one of their relatives to receive land, but obviously some more than others.


Learning Internal Politics
The internal politics refers to the disputes and arguments among lords of the same faction. This happens a lot and gets worse as the kingdom grows with more lords.

The easiest and best way to figure out what's going on is by talking to the lords themselves. Even if you aren't the ruler or even a member of their faction they might tell you how they feel about other lords.

Another way to learn about what's going on is by talking to the chamberlain.


Sowing Discontent
If you want to sow discontent in your own faction, you can start convincing lords about one thing or other.

Replacing the Faction's Marshal When You aren't King
If you want to replace a marshal (assuming you aren't the king but you are already the vassal of a kingdom), you need to convince other lords that he isn't doing a good job. One way of doing this is by letting your faction lose a lot of battles. Whenever anybody in your faction loses battles, including sieges where no lord is present, caravans and villages being harassed, etc., the marshal's controversy goes up. When it reaches a certain level you can start talking to people about it under "What is the kingdom doing?", and you can ask them if they feel the marshal is up to the task. Discontented lords will voice their opinions on this, and eventually when the controversy is high enough, the king will call to decide on a new marshal.

Obviously if you're the king, you can just appoint anybody as marshal as you please.


Planting Negative Thoughts Against Their Liege
Actually there is no consistent way to do this, but it helps a lot if you befriend lords and talk to them a lot about this stuff. Paying attention to political news, check if any lords are arguing amongst each other and monitor how the argument is resolved. Usually it's the king that resolves this, and whoever the king doesn't side with will like the king a bit less. When that happens you can talk to them about their thoughts on their king. If you're in another faction (including a rebellion or if you started your own kingdom) you can convince them to join yours.


Convincing Lords to Defect: What the Game Checks
There are only a few things the game checks when you want a lord to switch sides:
1. Reason to Defect: This is the part where you have to choose what to say to them. Different personality types will want to hear something different, but try to be consistent here or else they'll pick up on the fact that you're just telling them what they want to hear, and it will impact the conversation negatively.

2. Military Strength: There is a hidden score for each faction's military power, which is pretty complex. But its most obvious factors are the kingdom army size (total number of troops) and recent victories and defeats. Meaning a small guerrilla-style faction, such as those of rebellions, can outscore a larger faction by doing "war damage" by scoring consecutive wins, including those against caravans and villages. They also don't like it if their property is deep in their faction's territory, and suddenly switching sides would mean that their property would be surrounded by enemy territory.

3. Court Position: A lord's rank or court position is determined mostly by their property. A lord that defects will only turn over towns and castles to your faction, but villages are attached to the towns. Therefore if their fiefs were only villages, they would have no properties upon switching to your faction. Lords with only castles will have no source of income if they defect, unless you give them a village. This is part of keeping your vassals happy, and is a complex subject that deserves its own post.

4. Cost to Reputation: Switching sides costs "reputation", and some personality types mind this more than others.

5. Other Vassals in the Faction: Apparently there is some effect to whether they would want to join your faction or not, if they have enemies or people they generally dislike in your faction. I personally usually only recruit Good-natured, Upstanding, Martial and Cunning lords, mostly friends with or indifferent to each other so I don't see the effect of this too much, but I see it in the calculations scripts.


(I'll edit and post more on this later. I gotta get back to work lol. I started typing this during my break.)

I noticed that it's mentioned here that these r tips to sow discontent in your own faction. How do you sow discontent in other factions though? Any advice?