wanted to post my opinion on gold and preset maps, but i didnt want to read through everything so now im making a post that is both irrelevant and doesnt contribute 
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T
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@Eternal
Just because we hint that EU may be pushing things one way or the other doesn't mean we are arguing over that. Rhade has said why he thinks map choice is better, and I have said why I think 1500 gold is better. You are the one focusing on NA/EU. Forget about EU or BIT and give some reasons for 1000 gold and preset maps. I have looked over the other threads and very few people give any argument or GOOD evidence whatsoever. Its mostly, ppl just saying it has to be one way because its better.
I am confused as to what the general consensus is on the word "active". I always interpreted "active" as "tryhard mode" and "inactive" as playing but just because you enjoy the game...idk maybe I am weird.
Better? idk. For their style of play, sure. Regardless, I am sick of hearing the "we are changing on our own" line because it hardly looks that way to me. Not that EU is influencing anything, but that NA is not sold on the 1000g or preset map ideas. It was after all YOUR tournament which debuted the change.
Just because we hint that EU may be pushing things one way or the other doesn't mean we are arguing over that. Rhade has said why he thinks map choice is better, and I have said why I think 1500 gold is better. You are the one focusing on NA/EU. Forget about EU or BIT and give some reasons for 1000 gold and preset maps. I have looked over the other threads and very few people give any argument or GOOD evidence whatsoever. Its mostly, ppl just saying it has to be one way because its better.
I am confused as to what the general consensus is on the word "active". I always interpreted "active" as "tryhard mode" and "inactive" as playing but just because you enjoy the game...idk maybe I am weird.
This is super lame and you know it lol. BkS plays, so we know what is going on. Are we "active". no (see above definition if confused) but we still know what is going on.
Better? idk. For their style of play, sure. Regardless, I am sick of hearing the "we are changing on our own" line because it hardly looks that way to me. Not that EU is influencing anything, but that NA is not sold on the 1000g or preset map ideas. It was after all YOUR tournament which debuted the change.
And I'm sick of people saying thet EU players are forcing NA to change!
Blacktide supports 1500k, I don't like it but I really don't care and I never forced a change on that subject.
Few posts ago I clearly said that I like the map pick instead of the randomized map selection due to fun factors.
Kohath supports 1500K, Sota doesnt give a **** about the rule-set and the same applies for Crazyboy.
The only thing I disliked was Random Plains due to unbalance issues, not because TMW wasn't able to win.
Having this in mind I really don't know where such idea that Euros wanna change everything came from, but I might have a clue, Rhade still thinks that Lust is part of TMW, but he is not and he was the one that wanted major changes on the NA scene back then.
Blacktide supports 1500k, I don't like it but I really don't care and I never forced a change on that subject.
Few posts ago I clearly said that I like the map pick instead of the randomized map selection due to fun factors.
Kohath supports 1500K, Sota doesnt give a **** about the rule-set and the same applies for Crazyboy.
The only thing I disliked was Random Plains due to unbalance issues, not because TMW wasn't able to win.
Having this in mind I really don't know where such idea that Euros wanna change everything came from, but I might have a clue, Rhade still thinks that Lust is part of TMW, but he is not and he was the one that wanted major changes on the NA scene back then.
T said:
^
Best thing to do when inconvenient truths are presented: ignore them and focus on the small piece that is able to be attacked.
Smite, Tyrian?
Mr.X said:
That's great, I know they're all played the same in competitions, and that's because it works when you give players choice. Not giving them choice or trying to give them choices is another issue entirely from whether or not I believe European influence has come into our scene and changed some things, so please don't come in here with a bunch of logical fallacy and try to muddy the water and misdirect what I'm saying. MKP is still a big name playing in the GSL, and yes, if he was forced to play on a long macro map his strengths aren't as strong, but I never disagreed with that.
Rhade said:
As for gold, isnt the whole point of tournaments to do something different than the last tournament? In every other game I'm aware of each tournament has its own restriction, by argueing over what gold amount to use we essentially say this is the only way we as a community will do matches. Now theres nothing wrong with a competitive standard, but if say 1 clan asks another clan for a scrim on 3000 gold and the clan agrees then who are we to stop them? If one clan prefers to play 1500 and the other doesnt care then why not play on 1500 even if it is not the standard....
T said:
You, among others, asked for reasons as to why 1000g is a superior gold setting. They've been argued back and forth many times. I'm literally just going to quote them, there is no sense in me writing a wall of text. If you hate reading, then at least glance over the parts I've bolded for convenience.
Juvenile said:
Mad Dawg said:
Mad Dawg said:
Yes, that figure is adjusted for Green.
edit: And on that note, I'm done with gold. I've argued my heart out on this issue and every time I say anything on the matter it's something I've said before four different times. I'm more than willing to discuss preset maps. That's something that could have some improvement.
It's just tiring. It really is. And no, I wasn't "focus on the small piece that is able to be attacked." Seriously? I replied to your entire post. Two paragraphs is not a 'small piece.' Don't run away from something because you can't respond to it.
T
Sergeant
Eternal said:
Thanks for putting those together, makes it easier.
Yes, I have seen these and this is what I am talking about. These are merely Y/N votes by captains or individuals. There are no real arguments really being made here. The only one in there is by Mad Dawg basically saying the opposite of what I think I have shown to be the case. I am not sure what evidence he has to back up his argument, unless I am misunderstanding him. In all of those posts there really isn't much other than ppl voting on what they think is best.
There is a good bit of affirmation in those posts that 1k works, but not many reasons why...if that makes sense.
Mad Dawg said:
BIT proved nothing, or at least very little. This is because it is the first instance this community has experienced 1000g. NA has not seen anywhere near what meta-1000g looks like.
The numbers Juve gave us out of his random 50 person survey are unreliable. You've already seen wK, wappaw, to an extent BkS, and others from various clans come out and say they'd prefer 1500. You really only have balions and TMWs sticking up for 1000. (and maybe KoA, but they haven't spoke up). When you look at the bigger picture, it's hard to ignore that there is significant support for 1500.
Eternal said:
It has already been said, but faction balance cannot be achieved due to the developers throwing seemingly random gold costs on items. A small example of this can be seen in TMW versus Balion in BIT finals with Nords vs Sarranid on an open map. What has been said before, and reiterated in this thread by Tyrion, is that 1000g creates a class imbalance.
More on the class imbalance can be seen here and tyrions take here
Very few NA players who played in NC actually enjoyed it. Not because we get our ass kicked (because we definitely don't), but because we've seen a glimpse of what the european meta game has turned into - and it's not much fun. Maybe it's their cup of tea, though, so no disrespect to them. RE:
Maynd said:
Ghaern actually has a bunch of amazing ideas, too bad he doesn't frequent these forums.
Mad Dawg said:
What? Enough bull****. Ranged units don't have to choose with 1k, they get nearly everything they want.
Swadia, Rhodok, Nord and Vaegir ranged can buy their best chest piece, and some even have gold left to upgrade other things. Please, feel free to log in and check this **** out for yourself. Don't just say things.
There are several. Faction balance and being able to do more strategies are the two big examples.
Faction balance is evident. You probably remember on Nord Town where the two viable factions were Rhodoks and Nords. If someone got clever, they'd throw in Vaegirs once in every five scrims. That was how it worked.
On Random Plains, we had Vaegirs and Swadia. BkS, I remember, oftentimes used Sarranids. You never really saw Nords, and you definitely never saw Rhodoks.
In general, Sarranids weren't used. Everything they had was subpar to Vaegirs at 1500g. Vaegirs had the same horses, except less maneuverable. Vaegirs had better archers and better infantry. BkS, I believe, was the only clan that used Sarranids.
edit: I should probably note the point that all factions were used on Nord Town and Open Plains and every other map on 1000g.
That's the example of faction balance.
With strategies, it is very hard to explain to you or Rhade anything that I mean. You weren't there for BIT. Rhade will swear up and down he knows what playing 1000g feels like, but he's yet to play a prolonged NA tournament with 1000g.
In addition to more factions being used, we saw more classes being used. On Open and Random Plains, the "all cav" strat was pretty much dead. In 1250g pickup parties, "all cav" is the big strategy on Open Plains (a point Zaffa brought up earlier), but it was never seen to be very effective on 1000g.
Reveran Village saw more tactical maneuverability as archers had to be utilized as more than just support - they had to be placed in the right location because they were more deadly than before. These examples and more were abound in 1000g.
And I just got ninja'd into a post on Gelden.
I want you to understand this is why I refuse to debate 1000g. There was a huge thread where I had debated Gelden before. There were threads upon threads upon threads discussing 1000 v 1500. Do you think anything got done?
No.
I could write walls of text here. Do you think we would achieve a consensus?
No.
I had the same dilemma before BIT. So instead of having giant walls of text in every thread, I made a tournament to test whether 1000g worked. I had a tournament to see how matches would look, to see whether they would be closer, to see whether archers would be really OP, and more importantly to see whether the community approved. Did having an entire tournament on 1000g mean anything?
Apparently not. Because
Faction balance is evident. You probably remember on Nord Town where the two viable factions were Rhodoks and Nords. If someone got clever, they'd throw in Vaegirs once in every five scrims. That was how it worked.
On Random Plains, we had Vaegirs and Swadia. BkS, I remember, oftentimes used Sarranids. You never really saw Nords, and you definitely never saw Rhodoks.
In general, Sarranids weren't used. Everything they had was subpar to Vaegirs at 1500g. Vaegirs had the same horses, except less maneuverable. Vaegirs had better archers and better infantry. BkS, I believe, was the only clan that used Sarranids.
edit: I should probably note the point that all factions were used on Nord Town and Open Plains and every other map on 1000g.
That's the example of faction balance.
With strategies, it is very hard to explain to you or Rhade anything that I mean. You weren't there for BIT. Rhade will swear up and down he knows what playing 1000g feels like, but he's yet to play a prolonged NA tournament with 1000g.
In addition to more factions being used, we saw more classes being used. On Open and Random Plains, the "all cav" strat was pretty much dead. In 1250g pickup parties, "all cav" is the big strategy on Open Plains (a point Zaffa brought up earlier), but it was never seen to be very effective on 1000g.
Reveran Village saw more tactical maneuverability as archers had to be utilized as more than just support - they had to be placed in the right location because they were more deadly than before. These examples and more were abound in 1000g.
And I just got ninja'd into a post on Gelden.
I want you to understand this is why I refuse to debate 1000g. There was a huge thread where I had debated Gelden before. There were threads upon threads upon threads discussing 1000 v 1500. Do you think anything got done?
No.
I could write walls of text here. Do you think we would achieve a consensus?
No.
I had the same dilemma before BIT. So instead of having giant walls of text in every thread, I made a tournament to test whether 1000g worked. I had a tournament to see how matches would look, to see whether they would be closer, to see whether archers would be really OP, and more importantly to see whether the community approved. Did having an entire tournament on 1000g mean anything?
Apparently not. Because
Gelden said:
1500 gold is better. The fastest server setting makes attacking easier and defending harder. The 1500 gold allows people with high ping to purchase more armour and therefore allows more hits to be absorbed. This, coupled with the glitchy fastest high ping attacks, helps high pingers more as it levels the playing field.
If anyone is on the side of the 'Europeans' then it's Rhade and co, Catholic is just trying to nerf us. All in all, 1500 gold is better for me and I don't give a **** about the Americans. Americans like big things (just look at their people and burgers), so I guess it's good for them too.
Catholic is wrong, I am right.
If anyone is on the side of the 'Europeans' then it's Rhade and co, Catholic is just trying to nerf us. All in all, 1500 gold is better for me and I don't give a **** about the Americans. Americans like big things (just look at their people and burgers), so I guess it's good for them too.
Catholic is wrong, I am right.
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