[NC2012] - Questions and Answers

[Mad_Dawg]

Lust is right - is it's closed map why every single team is going for max 3-4inf out of 8 and 2-3 cavs minimum? If its closed map - than noone makes you play it with tactics for open maps. Id love to see 5-6 inf push getting kited all day long by archer+cav. Because if the teams are smart they are NOT gonna get cought in close space by infantry.  Your logic is - ruins and fbtr and ruined fort are all closed map, because when all the team goes to the inside-lower part of ruins it is 1-sided clash with only 1 entrance! Ruined fort is very similar to reveran village in case of masters - there is fort, which teams are usually fighting for (waiting around), but there is only 1 master spawning there. so it usually ends up beiing open field master fight.

Sorry guys but team comp does not dictate if a map is open or not.  I've run 2-3 cav on Port Assualt, Village and Nord Town.

So far the only small amount of explanation that has been offered that I feel is viably logical is the fact that the buildings are not accessible to the inside or from the roof.  That is a small amount of reasonable...reasoning.

 

[Icer7]

It's possible to argue it both one way or the other. Truth is maps like Reveran village is both open and a closed map.
IMHO, why not make a 3rd category called 'Mixed" and have so either the open side or the closed side could possibly draw that map.

The map is not open,
The map is not closed,
It's a hybrid of both.

 

[captain lust]

You could say that about almost all maps.

The reason there are open and closed maps is to give a reasonable offering of varied gameplay, so as to give a fair chance to teams of different styles. In my opinion, Reveran Village offers plenty of potential for a team that prefers to play on open maps to make use of open spaces and play into their strengths. If you're being drawn into close quarters fighting against your wishes on the map then you're doing it wrong.

 

[Mr.X]

You could say that about almost all maps.

The reason there are open and closed maps is to give a reasonable offering of varied gameplay, so as to give a fair chance to teams of different styles. In my opinion, Reveran Village offers plenty of potential for a team that prefers to play on open maps to make use of open spaces and play into their strengths. If you're being drawn into close quarters fighting against your wishes on the map then you're doing it wrong.

Doing it wrong = not wanting to wait 3 and a half minutes every round before you start a match? Thats like, not wanting to delay your match an hour. Solid reasoning.

 

[captain lust]

I agree that 6 minutes is too long for 8vs8 but I don't think flag camping is the only way to force open play.

Without going into discussion why I don't think flag camping is the only way to force open play, I'd make the point that there isn't a single map, open or closed, which doesn't have buildings/areas that can be held and quite often, the most effective way to force open play is to flag camp. Mindlessly mob-rushing the ruins on Ruins or Field won't grant you open play, so I don't see what separates Reveran.

 

[Mr.X]

I agree that 6 minutes is too long for 8vs8 but I don't think flag camping is the only way to force open play.

Without going into discussion why I don't think flag camping is the only way to force open play, I'd make the point that there isn't a single map, open or closed, which doesn't have buildings/areas that can be held and quite often, the most effective way to force open play is to flag camp. Mindlessly mob-rushing the ruins on Ruins or Field won't grant you open play, so I don't see what separates Reveran.

Random Plains doesn't have buildings.

Flag camping every round means no action until the flag which means 56 minutes of inactivity in a match. I'd rather lose than do nothing for an hour

 

[captain lust]

Random Plains doesn't have buildings.

Flag camping every round means no action until the flag which means 56 minutes of inactivity in a match. I'd rather lose than do nothing for an hour

You're dodging the point now.

Saying Plains doesn't have buildings is of no relevance to the fact that there are ways to try and force open/closed play on almost all maps. In most cases, it's harder to force a closed fight on an open map (Reveran Village included) or an open fight on a closed map. Sometimes flag camping is the most effective way to force a particular kind of engagement but that's a problem with the game mode. Not the map.

 

[Mr.X]

Random Plains doesn't have buildings.

Flag camping every round means no action until the flag which means 56 minutes of inactivity in a match. I'd rather lose than do nothing for an hour

You're dodging the point now.

Saying Plains doesn't have buildings is of no relevance to the fact that there are ways to try and force open/closed play on almost all maps. In most cases, it's harder to force a closed fight on an open map (Reveran Village included) or an open fight on a closed map. Sometimes flag camping is the most effective way to force a particular kind of engagement but that's a problem with the game mode. Not the map.

Saying Plains doesn't have buildings was done specifically because you said "There's no map that doesn't have buildings". Plains doesn't have buildings, and I think it should be in the map pool. That's not dodging the point...

So, if you can play open and closed on every map, whats with this bull**** categorizing then? Honestly, whether a map is "open" or "closed" right now is based on what whoever made that system (not sure who was the first to do it and cba to look it up) thinks. If I made it first and I said Port Assault was an open map, it would be open. If I said it was a closed map, it would be closed. And both ways people would debate.

If the close/open system is implemented to make things fair, why is it based off one persons opinion of the game?

 

[Goker]

Honestly, whether a map is "open" or "closed" right now is based on what whoever made that system thinks.

There we go. You're showing sings of understanding how the system works.

If the close/open system is implemented to make things fair, why is it based off one persons opinion of the game?

It's actually not just one person who decides on it. It is one person and every other people who accept the rules and participate in his tournament.

 

[New_Player_FTW]

Reach consensus and accept it, and than just do everything to destroy it - American way . Is it only me or only USA players have got so many problems about everything? I mean, that the fact that there is competition in which usa players(and other across seas countries) are invited creates so many technical problems that when you all are just gonna complain bout everything, next time maybe it will be easier to make european nation cup. We're all gonna save so much time and nerves. Because matches between europe and america are not on top skill-level of tournament and will never be. Because every match where one side has got 140 ping and other 50 is not even and it all comes to luck and major mistakes - which is something that won't usually happen often. That's why every match where plays USA against other decent european team its gonna be close to 10:10. (France - USA is kind of proving that point). Our match vs USA in last ncup wher not fun(im talking as one of the polish players). Even though we win, it was not fun, it wasn't well played and it was for me waste of time. Because 140ping plays demands changing tactics and forces very safe - shooting concentrated fights. and duels usually looks like - 150ping guy shields up and waits until he is 150% sure that he cant be spammed with this delay, and than he makes one attack. Duels on pings like that when same level players are against will 95% of the time favor better ping player.
Concluding I just think that USA players should be glad that so many teams are willing to take part in tournament with them inside and try not to be complaining about everything they see.
Also I love the way that after PL-BRA match the drama is made by Americans - its strange that Brasilians can't speak up for themselves. And im not complaining about decision that organisators made because we don't really care. But the fault wasn't on our side and we waited for over 1! hour (and even additional time before changing spawns) for any server to come available and we even tried to look for one ourselves. We were not obliged to do so. and after that we are getting black-pred by americans who are not even slightly objective. "Poland abuse Brasil!" "Save Brasilians from villian poles" - thats just BS where the auther don't even pretend to be objective.
Im writing it just as a personal opinion of a player but i know that many people in my team feel the same. I think im done

 

[Mr.X]

Reach consensus and accept it, and than just do everything to destroy it - American way . Is it only me or only USA players have got so many problems about everything? I mean, that the fact that there is competition in which usa players(and other across seas countries) are invited creates so many technical problems that when you all are just gonna complain bout everything, next time maybe it will be easier to make european nation cup. We're all gonna save so much time and nerves. Because matches between europe and america are not on top skill-level of tournament and will never be. Because every match where one side has got 140 ping and other 50 is not even and it all comes to luck and major mistakes - which is something that won't usually happen often. That's why every match where plays USA against other decent european team its gonna be close to 10:10. (France - USA is kind of proving that point). Our match vs USA in last ncup wher not fun(im talking as one of the polish players). Even though we win, it was not fun, it wasn't well played and it was for me waste of time. Because 140ping plays demands changing tactics and forces very safe - shooting concentrated fights. and duels usually looks like - 150ping guy shields up and waits until he is 150% sure that he cant be spammed with this delay, and than he makes one attack. Duels on pings like that when same level players are against will 95% of the time favor better ping player.
Concluding I just think that USA players should be glad that so many teams are willing to take part in tournament with them inside and try not to be complaining about everything they see.
Also I love the way that after PL-BRA match the drama is made by Americans - its strange that Brasilians can't speak up for themselves. And im not complaining about decision that organisators made because we don't really care. But the fault wasn't on our side and we waited for over 1! hour (and even additional time before changing spawns) for any server to come available and we even tried to look for one ourselves. We were not obliged to do so. and after that we are getting black-pred by americans who are not even slightly objective. "Poland abuse Brasil!" "Save Brasilians from villian poles" - thats just BS where the auther don't even pretend to be objective.
Im writing it just as a personal opinion of a player but i know that many people in my team feel the same. I think im done

I don't remember signing a contract that said I agreed to anything. I remember signing up for a tournament with ****ty rules.

There's a language barrier problem here though. The whole "Save Brazil thing" borderlined joking. Yes, we thought the match was unfair and should be replayed, but we didn't think you guys were villians. The exaggeration of the unfairness of the match was done in order to ensure a fairer replay. It isn't that strange that the Brazilians couldn't speak up for themselves when you consider the fact that only maybe 1 or 2 of them speak english, and not very well at that. And they aren't particularly active on the forum.

Honestly, don't you think it's kinda an ******* move to say things like "USA should be glad we LET them play"? Cause you said and implied that a few times. Why wouldn't we be allowed to play in an international tournament? We're just as much a nation as Poland, or France, or Brazil, or every other nation. And I'm fairly sure there's a match thats 20-0 to USA even with us playing at higher ping half the time. And many players in Europe can play well on American servers and vice versa. Of course, many cannot. Also, 95% of the time favoring the lower ping player? Where did you pull that number from? Let me guess. Your ass. Don't make up numbers you don't know. Nobody knows how many times a duel will favor a lower ping player. And nobody is really on equal skill anyway.

Stop playing the hate-America card and start listening to the arguments.

Honestly, whether a map is "open" or "closed" right now is based on what whoever made that system thinks.

There we go. You're showing sings of understanding how the system works.

If the close/open system is implemented to make things fair, why is it based off one persons opinion of the game?

It's actually not just one person who decides on it. It is one person and every other people who accept the rules and participate in his tournament.

Accepting the rules and participating in the tournament doesn't mean I decided on the rules. It means I want to play despite the fact that the determining factor for "fairness" is decided by one person. The reasoning I'm arguing is because I don't think it's fair, and I think my team got slighted because of unfair rules and I don't want it to happen again, to us or to anyone.

 

[Alex_C]

I don't remember signing a contract that said I agreed to anything. I remember signing up for a tournament with ****ty rules.

You can leave whenever you want (please do).

 

[Goker]

Accepting the rules and participating in the tournament doesn't mean I decided on the rules.

It means you agreed to them. If the rules aren't to your liking, you have the option to not play.

 

[Mr.X]

Accepting the rules and participating in the tournament doesn't mean I decided on the rules.

It means you agreed to them. If the rules aren't to your liking, you have the option to not play.

I also have the option of questioning them. I'm choosing that one for now.

 

[New_Player_FTW]

I really hope that USA wins this NCUP. Believe me i really do. Because then we could see how the whole home and away system rly sucks. We as all europeans team need to practice 90% time to win with other europeans teams. Which is practice playing on low pings. And Americans can practice and have much more experience in playing this home away system. Is it fair Zero ? Because we will play one match(maybe 2) on 150 ping. And USA will play all of them and will be comfortable with it! Unfair!

 

[Mr.X]

I really hope that USA wins this NCUP. Believe me i really do. Because then we could see how the whole home and away system rly sucks.

So you're saying that if USA wins, it will only be because we were playing on high ping half the time, which is unfair to you?

We as all europeans team need to practice 90% time to win with other europeans teams. Which is practice playing on low pings. And Americans can practice and have much more experience in playing this home away system. Is it fair Zero ? Because we will play one match(maybe 2) on 150 ping. And USA will play all of them and will be comfortable with it! Unfair!

Again with this number bull****. Show me the math that gave you 90%. Cause that number is complete bull****. And you honestly think that it's an advantage to play half of almost every match on high ping? lol. Ok. How about you play half of all of your matches in America, no matter what team you're playing against. Then it would be fair.

 

[Killfacer]

Sorry I can't really work this one out. Are you saying that the maps should be changed for the final so they're more suited to the USA, because you're not so good at closed maps?

If so, lol.

 

[New_Player_FTW]

Last Ncup facts.
Poland played sth like 10 out of 11 matches bcause we got 1 walkover i think.
In this there was 1match against USA and 1 against canada.
2/10 matches were played on home away system for us. It makes 20%(so its 80% not 90%. Damn. Also some ppl didnt have canada in group so for example France has got around 90% plays on normal system and not home-away). For usa it was 100% on H-A i think.
So we have alot less experience on playing with 140 pingd because we played only 20 rounds with it. While you got 100rounds on high ping. Unfair! And don't get me wrong I'm not saying that if you win its only because we are not used to play on high pings. What I am saying that the form of checking the skill is wrong and it gives advantage to you as you play more this way. And obviously if we would know that we are facing you in knockout phase we would probly practice on american servers to get as good as it is possible. But still its us who need to practice and not you as you got your matches this way all the time.
And tbh i dont expect anything to be done to even it out because i think its impossible. What I am saying that tournament has its flaws but they are impossible to resolve. And its the same with this RV map. Its more of an open map that its closed. Frosty village has the same issue as RV. The maps are not as open as others but still they are not closed in any way. So they are accordingly to common sense placed in the open map category. And what i see here is that you are not feeling comfortable on map which has a little closed space so you want to avoid playing on it. Its too late now.

 

[Mr.X]

Sorry I can't really work this one out. Are you saying that the maps should be changed for the final so they're more suited to the USA, because you're not so good at closed maps?

If so, lol.

No, I'm saying the system of classifying maps as open or closed and then using them in the tournament based off some guys opinion is ****.

Last Ncup facts.
Poland played sth like 10 out of 11 matches bcause we got 1 walkover i think.
In this there was 1match against USA and 1 against canada.
2/10 matches were played on home away system for us. It makes 20%(so its 80% not 90%. Damn. Also some ppl didnt have canada in group so for example France has got around 90% plays on normal system and not home-away). For usa it was 100% on H-A i think.
So we have alot less experience on playing with 140 pingd because we played only 20 rounds with it. While you got 100rounds on high ping. Unfair! And don't get me wrong I'm not saying that if you win its only because we are not used to play on high pings. What I am saying that the form of checking the skill is wrong and it gives advantage to you as you play more this way. And obviously if we would know that we are facing you in knockout phase we would probly practice on american servers to get as good as it is possible. But still its us who need to practice and not you as you got your matches this way all the time.
And tbh i dont expect anything to be done to even it out because i think its impossible. What I am saying that tournament has its flaws but they are impossible to resolve. And its the same with this RV map. Its more of an open map that its closed. Frosty village has the same issue as RV. The maps are not as open as others but still they are not closed in any way. So they are accordingly to common sense placed in the open map category. And what i see here is that you are not feeling comfortable on map which has a little closed space so you want to avoid playing on it. Its too late now.

How the **** is it an advantage to play, as you say, at 140 ping all the time. Like are you kidding me? Given a choice, would you rather play 1 match at 140 ping or all of them? I'm guessing 1, because it's the least stupid...

 

[BlackTide]

Last Ncup facts.
Poland played sth like 10 out of 11 matches bcause we got 1 walkover i think.
In this there was 1match against USA and 1 against canada.
2/10 matches were played on home away system for us. It makes 20%(so its 80% not 90%. Damn. Also some ppl didnt have canada in group so for example France has got around 90% plays on normal system and not home-away). For usa it was 100% on H-A i think.
So we have alot less experience on playing with 140 pingd because we played only 20 rounds with it. While you got 100rounds on high ping. Unfair! And don't get me wrong I'm not saying that if you win its only because we are not used to play on high pings. What I am saying that the form of checking the skill is wrong and it gives advantage to you as you play more this way. And obviously if we would know that we are facing you in knockout phase we would probly practice on american servers to get as good as it is possible. But still its us who need to practice and not you as you got your matches this way all the time.
And tbh i dont expect anything to be done to even it out because i think its impossible. What I am saying that tournament has its flaws but they are impossible to resolve. And its the same with this RV map. Its more of an open map that its closed. Frosty village has the same issue as RV. The maps are not as open as others but still they are not closed in any way. So they are accordingly to common sense placed in the open map category. And what i see here is that you are not feeling comfortable on map which has a little closed space so you want to avoid playing on it. Its too late now.

You have the entire tournament and a week in which to practice between matches with high ping if you want to get used to it, if you don't put the time in to get used to it then of course you're going to be at a disadvantage. I don't believe this is happening on any noticeable scale as I haven't seen many European players on US servers over the past few weeks, unless they're playing under alias'.