[NC2012] - Captaincy Applications

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I come from the UK and frankly this argument is bull(rubbish).It's entirely up to whoever to decide what country they come from. No one here has any vague right to tell someone else they're not from a 'country'. Frankly its ridiculous for anyone to say otherwise. Goodluck where ever you are from, I hope you get past the petty chauvinism you have seen.

Goodluck with your cause Tharken. Don't give up. Certainly dont let internet popularity get in your way.

Deacon Barry
 
Killfacer said:
I come from the UK and frankly this argument is bull(rubbish).It's entirely up to whoever to decide what country they come from. No one here has any vague right to tell someone else they're not from a 'country'. Frankly its ridiculous for anyone to say otherwise. Goodluck where ever you are from, I hope you get past the petty chauvinism you have seen.
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Actually, it's not. The UK recognizes the existence of 4 countries within its domain, but France does not recognize any of its regions as countries. Neither does anyone else. For all intents and purposes, Lorraine is within the domain of France and cannot stand apart.

Northern Ireland is not in the same situation. It is part of the UK (which is a country, but also a commonwealth consisting of several countries) and is considered by the UK to be a country within its domain. You shouldn't need an American to tell you this, but here I am.

If we're going to begin breaking countries down by their regions, you can expect several American teams. East coast, Southern states, Midwest, Southwest, West coast. We could even do it by state, I bet. Imagine 20+ American teams running amok in the Nations Cup. That would be great, right?
 
Thanks so much for the geography lesson. As a university student doing history it was really enlightening and helpful. May I reference you as a source in my next dissertation?  :roll:

I shouldn't have to tell an American that sometimes a part of a country considers itself more than such. It's really no skin off my nose whether he forms the team or not. I'd support a person who wanted to set up a Basque team or a Palestinian one.  It's easy to dismiss without knowing the details which frankly none of us do.

(edit) for me it isn't about whether its an internationally recognised sovereign state. No one should be forced to play for a country which they don't consider to be theirs. It doesn't really affect anyone here if he forms a Lorraine nationalist team either.
 
Goker said:
They're not being forced to play for a country that they don't consider theirs. They, however want to play for a country that doesn't exist.
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Nationalities are a little more fluid than what is simply recognised as a soveriegn state by a large political body. I feel in computer games we may be allowed to move past such definitions and, if someone feels strongly about independence for their 'state', they should be allowed to express it. I for one know absolutely nothing about Lorraine and to be honest was totally unaware that it had elements that want independence.

I really don't see how it harms anyone.

(edit) also i hate having to defend statements i made stumbling drunkly home on my larry. Why did I write my name at the end?  :shock:
 
400px-Flag_of_Kent.svg.png

I'm applying for the captaincy of Team Kent!​

Arms-kent.jpg



Historical regions (albeit with strong separatist movements) will not be able to form a national team. The reasons for this would seem clear, nevertheless I'll go into them: firstly, the eventual consequence would be the splitting up of larger nations into several teams, allowing nations with larger populations the ability to be over-represented in the Nations' Cup; secondly it's feasible to confirm that a particular player is from a particular country, this would start getting trickier when I'd have to start finding out whether someone's from this particular region of France or not.

I accept that the way the world is laid out is not perfect, national borders are perhaps not what they should be and this all stems from warfare and such. However, as an organiser of a Nations Cup for a fairly niche multiplayer game, I don't see it as my responsibility to resolve international affairs and the demands of various separatist groups. As such, I will go by internationally recognised states as my definition for whether a nation is allowed to submit a team - which I believe would allow Monaco to form one.

Basically: Lorraine is no more a state than Kent. Kent at least has a cool boxing horse for its flag though.
 
Alex_C said:
Historical regions (albeit with strong separatist movements) will not be able to form a national team. The reasons for this would seem clear, nevertheless I'll go into them: firstly, the eventual consequence would be the splitting up of larger nations into several teams, allowing nations with larger populations the ability to be over-represented in the Nations' Cup; secondly it's feasible to confirm that a particular player is from a particular country, this would start getting trickier when I'd have to start finding out whether someone's from this particular region of France or not.

I accept that the way the world is laid out is not perfect, national borders are perhaps not what they should be and this all stems from warfare and such. However, as an organiser of a Nations Cup for a fairly niche multiplayer game, I don't see it as my responsibility to resolve international affairs and the demands of various separatist groups. As such, I will go by internationally recognised states as my definition for whether a nation is allowed to submit a team - which I believe would allow Monaco to form one.

Basically: Lorraine is no more a state than Kent. Kent at least has a cool boxing horse for its flag though.
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Fair enough, I yield.
 
Just because a couple of people are from Lorraine want it to be known as an independent place, doesn't mean everyone else does. Website of Lorraine, the official French one, also shows it as a region. So they see it is a region, as well as the French Government.

Alex already said he wouldn't allow regions to compete in the Cup.

Killfacer said:
Goker said:
They're not being forced to play for a country that they don't consider theirs. They, however want to play for a country that doesn't exist.
Click to expand...
Nationalities are a little more fluid than what is simply recognised as a soveriegn state by a large political body. I feel in computer games we may be allowed to move past such definitions and, if someone feels strongly about independence for their 'state', they should be allowed to express it. I for one know absolutely nothing about Lorraine and to be honest was totally unaware that it had elements that want independence.
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Why the hell do I even bother?

Ah, anyways, thanks for clearing it up, again, Alex. Sorry for spamming the thread with it.
 
Killfacer said:
You're essentially saying that some people there don't think it should be independent and 'cus a website ses its part of france innit so they must wanna be french'. That's not evidence for anything apart from your own simplicity.
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Not some people. The website of the Region of Lorraine. The argument you're making is "Some people in Lorraine thinks they should be independent, so we should allow them to act like a country" which is pretty stupid.

They are a region, as said on the site, many times. (Also on wikipedia) That disqualifies them. People from Lorraine may have other feelings, but that is not enough for them to enter as a team, in my opinion.

I said "sorry for spamming the thread with it" because I've been arguing on this thread about the whole issue, with Tharken, long before you posted. He made the "You allow Northern Ireland though" argument. I argued about how it was seen as a country and the post I made after Alex was to show that how Lorraine isn't considered as one. Then I read that you don't really know about Lorraine, so yeah, I don't know why I bothered.

 
All we wanted was to represent a geographical and cultural entity we respect (because his rich history).You Deprive about fifteen players motivated thats all.

Killface: thank you for helping, but because of their insistence I think it's vain.
Lorraine has a very strong nationnal indentity  (a little bit like Corsica). Some people are for independence, but this feeling is becoming weaker.
 
Tharken said:
All we wanted was to represent a geographical and cultural entity we respect (because his rich history).You Deprive about fifteen players motivated thats all.
Click to expand...

That's the sentiment I was trying to defend.

Alex is right and it's a difficult issue to deal with. I just feel some people were a little quick to mock the idea despite arguing from a position of ignorance.

@Goker:  I'm not saying it should act like a country, get an army and join the security council. I am not qualified to speak about the subject. I am simply suggesting that maybe in a world a little less serious than the real one, we could allow those who feel strongly about independence to play for what they consider to be their country. If Alexander thinks that's not workable then so be it but it did not require you or anyone else throw a paddy about it.
 
After much debating, I (Gultar) was elected as Captain of the Russian team.
We will submit our roster as soon, it will be ready in a few days.
 
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