Mamluks were generally better equipped than Knights since they came from a more organised society and had more formalised training. The egyptian mamluk dynasties themselves are named after the training camps they came from. Meanwhile knights were just as much administrators as they were soliders and were never as rigourously trained as mamluks were.
That could be a trouble: developers said that Aserai are all around faction while Vlandia has best cavalry, so how can be possible to give mamluks both better equipment and training but make them weaker than knights? Only solution I can think is to make them very rare or with wide training (so very good in polearm, one handed and bow while knights are more specialized and they will win 1vs1).
@Kergitlancer99 I was afraid that you are banned permenantly, it is nice to see you again. Very interestin topic after all. Even it is fantasy game "extreme" historical inaccurancies can upset many fan I am sure.
However I don't agree with all of your opinion about both knights and mameluks. Even the game doesn't set in late period we know late period European knight's horses were armorued too, but this is similar for Mameluks too, Kipchak and Oghuz originated horsemen brought their warfare style (which is based on horse archery skills) to battlefield but variable sources shows that they didn't use these famous bards until 14th-15th century.
I recently found a books Templar Knight vs Mamluk Warrior and Mamluk Askari 1250-1517 from "Osprey Publishing" I recommend both of them as both of them really fits on topic.
First of all thank you for your kind words it means a lot to me. I am also glad to be here again. I was actually perma banned bıt after 4 months of waiting they unbanned me.
For the Osprey books I was able to read them in my vacation to England this summer but because of the exchange rate I didnt(couldnt) buy them.
From my research I understood knights in bannerlord are 13th century inspired rather than 11th century because they wore coat of plates in 2017 gamescom multiplayer footage.
About the Mamluks however, we do not have much resources since Aserai hasnt been demonstrated for a long time. We know that Aserai has mail armor with plate for horse from the horse dev blog. It is also a high medieval or renaissance thing(cant remember now). Mamluks adopted mail horse armor before knights this is for sure. Well Iberian Wolf says some knights had armor in 13th century. I couldnt find this bıt he has evidence.
But the bigger problem is the training and the historically right war style.
It seems Taleworlds usually go for the golden era of a historical unit type which was the 13th century for Mamluks.
Mamluks were trained together so they could do more complex tactics and formations. Knights on the other hand had "couched lance".
Also,
@BIGGER Kentucky James XXL
Said Mamelukes had better equipment than knights since they were a formalised society. But I think if knights were nobles they were probably rich and a rich person can get better armor than the standardised equipment of a kingdom but on the other hand it was the elite cav of a rising kingdom but again there were probably about 10.000 of them so it would take so much to arm all of them well...
I dunno okay ? I am not a medieval warfare historian. My demand is that TW shall focus on the pros and cons of these two historical units and bound them in a way that wont kill the balance of the game. If they cant do the balance, they can just make the stronger one harder to get.
I would say the main difference between a mameluke and a knight is the centralization of their respective cultures, and the ability that gave them to standardize gear and training. For the mamelukes, slave soldiers raised, trained, and outfitted by the Caliphate itself, there was a high amount of standardization, meaning one mameluke would be pretty much as reliable and well equipped as the next. On the other hand, a knight's training and equipment was entirely dependent on his family, or their ability to obtain the patronage of a more influential group. With no set training regimen like the mamelukes had, and absolutely no standardization of gear (as well as the vast differences in terrain and fighting styles) meant that there could be a vast difference in skill, training, and gear for the knight.
No worries, here are the the sources for you and for those who are interested...I'm not a fan of hearsays, but solid evidence. I appreciate your willingness to help the game to be historically accurate without compromising it too much - even though I ultimately don't mind, after all Calradia is fictional - but you state your opinion like it was a historical fact, and it's not the first or second time you're proved wrong. Do some proper research before posting, for the sake of the historical misconceptions spread, and even for your own credibility.
Horse mail/trappers were already in use at least from the end of the twelfth in France and Spain:
- https://books.google.co.uk/books?redir_esc=y&id=WMBmAAAAMAAJ&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=hooves - Ibn Shaddad
The extract above is from "The Anarchy: War and Status in 12th-Century Landscapes of Conflict", but he took the reference from Roger of Hoveden(English chronicler from the twelfth)
- LA EVOLUCION DEL ARMAMENTO MEDIEVAL EN EL REINO CASTELLANO-LEONÉS Y AL-ANDALUS (Siglos XII-XIV) - Alvaro Soler de Campos p.228
and it's not the first or second time you're proved wrong. Do some proper research before posting, for the sake of the historical misconceptions spread, and even for your own credibility.
The one thing I desperately want to see regarding horses is a stamina/fatigue system. Troop fatigue is a core mechanic in Total War and I'd like to see it transfer over to Bannerlord, at least for horses. It wears me out to no end in Warband when there are horse archers and even regular cavalry who can just harass you endlessly. I want them to think about how hard they push their horses.
Having an inventory system lends itself well to strategic choices about how to equip them for a balance of speed and protection.
No worries, here are the the sources for you and for those who are interested...I'm not a fan of hearsays, but solid evidence. I appreciate your willingness to help the game to be historically accurate without compromising it too much - even though I ultimately don't mind, after all Calradia is fictional - but you state your opinion like it was a historical fact, and it's not the first or second time you're proved wrong. Do some proper research before posting, for the sake of the historical misconceptions spread, and even for your own credibility.
Horse mail/trappers were already in use at least from the end of the twelfth in France and Spain:
- https://books.google.co.uk/books?redir_esc=y&id=WMBmAAAAMAAJ&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=hooves - Ibn Shaddad
The extract above is from "The Anarchy: War and Status in 12th-Century Landscapes of Conflict", but he took the reference from Roger of Hoveden(English chronicler from the twelfth)
- LA EVOLUCION DEL ARMAMENTO MEDIEVAL EN EL REINO CASTELLANO-LEONÉS Y AL-ANDALUS (Siglos XII-XIV) - Alvaro Soler de Campos p.228
Oh, thank you for providing the reference, mate. I didn't know that fact; I remember that in the chronicles of Jaume I (Llibre dels feits) the existence of metallic elements associated with the protection of the animal is already mentioned.
Oh that's a nice one...I have read the bit about Muret in that one, even though it's from a Castilian translation I have. Eventually I'll read the whole thing!
You are free to say what you will, but you're not entitled to demand anything from the devs.
I'm entitled to tell you that Calradia is 100.0% fictional.
You shall not demand anything from the devs or from the game. You didn't pay for anything, you don't hold market shares of the company, you're no TW employee.
You may, and you will, speak about things that would please you to be in the game. But those things may not please everyone else. I, for one, don't want M&B games to be historical medieval simulators. I'm fine with Calradia being fictional and hollywoodey. I'm entitled to my opinion.
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KhergitLancer99 said:
You can tell me why it is a bad idea, you can do your own counter demands but you cant intevene with me making my own demands.
Interesting how you DEMAND the devs to make a more realistic game just because of your personal taste, but gets so uncomfortable when someone tells you that the game has the right amount of realism in it, because it's a FICTIONAL WORLD!
Surely you see the error here. If realism doesn't necessarily improve a game, and I agree so far, it does not follow that more realism is a bad idea, it follows that it may be a bad idea. Which again means it may also be a good one.
You are free to say what you will, but you're not entitled to demand anything from the devs.
I'm entitled to tell you that Calradia is 100.0% fictional.
I am a fan and demanding something does not require any position within the company. I am a potential(actually 100%) buyer and I can make demands to the people who is going to sell me the product. Fans demand and the company either listens or not. Calradia might be fictional and as the developers themselves said before, the reason for that is to maintain balance between factions which is impossible in real history since one kingdom was always stronger.
Interesting how you DEMAND the devs to make a more realistic game just because of your personal taste, but gets so uncomfortable when someone tells you that the game has the right amount of realism in it, because it's a FICTIONAL WORLD!
I dont get uncomforted when ''someone'' tells me the game has the right amount of realism. I get uncomforted when that someone sushes me when I speak. You are in no position to sush me. You are not in the authority to sush me. You are crossing the line !
Realism might not effect the gameplay in a good or bad way at all but it is a design choice and some people may want it and demand it from TW like I do.
And at that point TW either listens or not it is up to them.
The reason this forum exists is so that fans can demand what they want from TW, not just nod our heads to everything they show.
I use the forum to look for interesting ideas, discussions and to find Bannerord tidbits I’ve missed. Taleworlds uses it to look for ideas, feedback and as a media outlet. Others use it for ranting and releasing anger, or as an outlet for meme’s and witty one-liners. Let’s agree that we all use it for different reasons.
Also, like Iberian Wolf said, I have seen images showing horses using mail armors in Spain, this one for example is about the knights and their equipment in the XII Century:
It says the source is "Trajes y armas de la historia de España por el profesor Manuel Rodríguez Codolá", but I couldn't find it, so I'm not 100% sure of this.
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Banned
