Help me understand what a Bosniak is

[Allegro]

Croatians and Serbs tend to refer to them as "Muslims of Bosnia", rather than admitting them as a different whole. Does this mean if those people in Bosnia had not converted to Islam centuries ago, today's B&H would comprise only Serbs and Croats, and the Bosniak identity would have never detached as something seperate?

 

[Marius_Marich]

This is a very touchy topic...

Does this mean if those people in Bosnia had not converted to Islam centuries ago, today's B&H would comprise only Serbs and Croats, and the Bosniak identity would have never detached as something seperate?

Probably, regardless if the ethnicity existed before or not.
During the 19th century nationalism pretty much every catholic person was declared Croat and every orthodox christian a Serb regardless of geographical location or actual ancestry.
Which led to this magnificent ethnic distribution map;

Spoiler

-note, this is an old map...current ethnic distribution is a bit different because of, you know...war.



I suppose the same would happen to the "Bosniaks" if they had no third religion to separate them from the rest.

The main problem here lies with the fact that even though the name of Bosnians was present during the centuries before nationalism arose, there was no separate entity that could be called an ethnicity by today's modern view. The vast majority of medieval sources only mention Croats and Serbs in Bosnia and treat Bosnia solely as a geographical entity.

What makes things ever more confusing is the fact that a large percentage of modern muslim "Bosniaks" are not even descendants from Bosnians but rather muslim converts from Croatia, Slavonia, Dalmatia and Hungary(also Serbs) which were driven out and forced to migrate to Bosnia after those regions were retaken by the Habsburgs.

Take into account that pretty much every single muslim west of the river Vrbas is basically a Croat convert(Turkish Croatia);
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_Croatia

along with the fact that the oldest known ethic group that were actually called "Bosniaks" are actually Croatian refugees that fled Bosnia and moved to Hungary/Austria during the Ottoman invasion;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosniaks_%28Croats_in_Hungary%29

...and you have an entire cluster bomb of confusion, ethnic tensions and...well...welcome to the Balkans 

 

[Allegro]

Thank you very much, very informative. I will have some follow up questions.

If my reading is not wrong, most people west of Vrbas are not Muslims. Although there is a hefty Serb population and their capital in Bosnia is somewhere there. So Christian Croats left this territory during the Ottoman invasion and it was settled by Serbians later on?

I have to go right now, guess I will have to continue the rest later on.

 

[Marius_Marich]

If my reading is not wrong, most people west of Vrbas are not Muslims.

Correct, currently the majority of Bosnians west of Vrbas are orthodox Serbs.

So Christian Croats left this territory during the Ottoman invasion and it was settled by Serbians later on?

Correct.

The clear example can be seen in the fact that the second main "Bosniak muslim" city in BiH is currently Bihac, the former "capital" of medieval Croatia where the Croatian sabor(parliament) once stood.

The current "capital" of Bosnian Serbs is Banja Luka, a city named after the title "ban" which was never in use by Serbs.
It was, until 25th of June 1528, with its surrounding area, an integral territory of Croatia/Slavonia and under the religious Diocese of the catholic bishop of Zagreb.

The vast majority of Croats in Bosnia were either massacred/enslaved during the wars, had converted to Islam/Orthodox, or had to migrate west because life was much harsher for catholics in the Ottoman empire than it was for the orthodox christians for obvious reasons.

The population void left by them was filled by various orthodox populations brought from the Balkans...mostly Serbs ofc.

 

[Allegro]

Thank you very much once more

So it was the Serbs in Bosnia who spearheaded the conversions to Islam, whereas Croatians were trying to avoid Ottoman rule as best as they could?

 

[Marius_Marich]

So it was the Serbs in Bosnia who spearheaded the conversions to Islam, whereas Croatians were trying to avoid Ottoman rule as best as they could?

Not really.
As I said, the catholics were in a worse position so those who decided to stay were the ones who would more probably convert to Islam.

 

[Marko͘]

Croats still are the third entity in Bosnia(though they don't have their own entity and federal part, yet).

As for the name Bosnian, that comes from the medieval Kingdom of Bosnia which were Croats. Today's so-called 'Bosniaks' were simply just referred to as 'Muslims' back in Yugoslavia, a Bosniak ethnicity as such didn't exist until the war(they were Muslim Croats, also in WW2).

Anyway here's a current ethnicity map.

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

[GERRY]

All those maps look very racist to me

 

[Bromden]

Are you trolling?