H.T.'s Archery Tweaks

[Michiko]

Hey guys. Following some discussion on archery, I decided to take a crack at rebalancing archery a little bit. This is to make archery just a little more realistic. It looks great with the custom animations Floris comes packaged with. A list of changes and benefits below.

First, a short demo video, so you see just how slow the new archery is. You might see some of my other mods in there, but just focus on the archery. In the video, I'm using the most powerful basic bow I could use (i.e., no modifications like Masterwork or Strong). It's not the most powerful bow in the game, but my character doesn't have high enough Power Draw to use anything better. It is one of the slowest, and has respectable damage. Pay attention also to the shots fired by the opponent, as there are varying levels of bows used. Inside the castle, I'll get shot at by a very light bow, whose arrows I can actually dodge. I think it looks about right compared to a 40~ lbf bow.

Now for the actual modification. Please follow these instructions carefully.

For gamers, first back up item_kinds1.txt. Then open it up (preferably with Notepad++) and find the line that starts with itm_we_swa_arrow_gromite, and delete all the lines from there until itm_we_pla_pistol_flintlock. Then replace it all with this stuff. Please be careful about your copy-pasting, and make sure you leave the spaces as necessary.

Spoiler

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 18 20 21 14
1
-51.000000  4 600 1 1152921504606847102 720 2 1 0 721 2 1 107 1969 3 1008806316530991137 1 15 

 itm_we_pla_pistol_flintlock_rifle Flintlock_Rifle Flintlock_Rifle 1  we_pla_pistol_flintlock_rifle 0  6357009 555930353664 1230 0 5.500000 10 0 0 95 0 0 44 128 0 1 337 0
 4
 18 20 21 14
1
-51.000000  4 600 1 1152921504606847102 720 2 1 0 721 2 1 139 1969 3 1008806316530991137 1 15 

 itm_we_pla_pistol_flintlock Flintlock_Pistol Flintlock_Pistol 2  we_pla_pistol_flintlock 0  we_pla_pistol_flintlock_good 251658240  12582928 481036795904 450 0 1.500000 25 0 0 75 0 0 64 89 0 1 306 0
 4
 18 20 21 14
1
-51.000000  4 600 1 1152921504606847102 720 2 1 27 721 2 1 36 1969 3 1008806316530991137 1 15

 

[Michiko]

For modders, here are the entries in module_items.py. Just replace the existing lines regarding arrows and bows with these lines. As usual, back the file up before editing, just in case you want to revert.

Spoiler

###Ranged Weapons - 86

##Ammunition - 21
#Swadia - 2
#Minimal - 2
["we_swa_arrow_gromite","Gromite Arrows",[("we_swa_arrow_gromite",0),("we_swa_arrow_gromite_flying",ixmesh_flying_ammo),("we_swa_quiver_gromite",ixmesh_carry)],itp_type_arrows|itp_merchandise,itcf_carry_quiver_back_right,90,weight(2.75)|abundance(100)|weapon_length(91)|thrust_damage(10,pierce)|max_ammo(32),imodbits_missile,[],[fac_kingdom_1] ],
["we_swa_arrow_steel","Steel Arrows",[("we_swa_arrow_steel",0),("we_swa_arrow_steel_flying",ixmesh_flying_ammo),("we_swa_quiver_steel",ixmesh_carry)],itp_type_arrows|itp_merchandise,itcf_carry_quiver_back_right,145,weight(3.65)|abundance(60)|weapon_length(91)|thrust_damage(12,pierce)|max_ammo(29),imodbits_missile,[],[fac_kingdom_1] ],
#Vaegir - 2
#Minimal - 2
["we_vae_arrow_sharp","Sharp Arrows",[("we_vae_arrow_sharp",0),("we_vae_arrow_sharp_flying",ixmesh_flying_ammo),("we_vae_quiver_sharp",ixmesh_carry)],itp_type_arrows|itp_merchandise,itcf_carry_quiver_back_right,130,weight(2.4)|abundance(100)|weapon_length(91)|thrust_damage(14,pierce)|max_ammo(27),imodbits_missile,[],[fac_kingdom_2] ],
["we_vae_arrow_imperial","Imperial Arrows",[("we_vae_arrow_imperial",0),("we_vae_arrow_imperial_flying",ixmesh_flying_ammo),("we_vae_quiver_imperial",ixmesh_carry)],itp_type_arrows|itp_merchandise|itp_can_penetrate_shield,itcf_carry_quiver_back_right,165,weight(1.9)|abundance(60)|weapon_length(91)|thrust_damage(12,pierce)|max_ammo(29),imodbits_missile,[],[fac_kingdom_2] ],
#Khergit - 7
#Minimal - 3
["we_khe_arrow_khergit","Khergit Arrows",[("we_khe_arrow_khergit",0),("we_khe_arrow_flying",ixmesh_flying_ammo),("we_khe_quiver_khergit",ixmesh_carry)],itp_type_arrows|itp_merchandise,itcf_carry_quiver_back_right,140,weight(1.9)|abundance(100)|weapon_length(95)|thrust_damage(7,pierce)|max_ammo(30),imodbits_missile,[],[fac_kingdom_3] ],
["we_khe_arrow_mongol","Mongol Arrows",[("we_khe_arrow_mongol",0),("we_khe_arrow_mongol_flying",ixmesh_flying_ammo),("we_khe_quiver_mongol",ixmesh_carry)],itp_type_arrows|itp_merchandise,itcf_carry_quiver_back_right,60,weight(1.3)|abundance(100)|weapon_length(95)|thrust_damage(9,pierce)|max_ammo(24),imodbits_missile,[],[fac_kingdom_3] ],
["we_khe_arrow_mongol_piercing","Piercing Mongol Arrows",[("we_khe_arrow_mongol_piercing",0),("we_khe_arrow_mongol_piercing_flying",ixmesh_flying_ammo),("we_khe_quiver_mongol_piercing",ixmesh_carry)],itp_type_arrows|itp_merchandise|itp_can_penetrate_shield,itcf_carry_quiver_back_right,210,weight(2.5)|abundance(30)|weapon_length(95)|thrust_damage(9,pierce)|max_ammo(24),imodbits_missile,[],[fac_kingdom_3] ],
#Expanded - 4
["we_khe_arrow_patterngreen","Green Pattern Arrows",[("we_khe_arrow_patterngreen",0),("we_khe_arrow_patterngreen_flying",ixmesh_flying_ammo),("we_khe_quiver_patterngreen",ixmesh_carry)],itp_merchandise|itp_type_arrows,itcf_carry_quiver_back_right,150,weight(2.2)|abundance(20)|weapon_length(95)|thrust_damage(10,pierce)|max_ammo(27),imodbits_missile,missile_distance_trigger,[fac_kingdom_3]],
["we_khe_arrow_patternred","Red Pattern Arrows",[("we_khe_arrow_patternred",0),("we_khe_arrow_patternred_flying",ixmesh_flying_ammo),("we_khe_quiver_patternred",ixmesh_carry)],itp_merchandise|itp_type_arrows,itcf_carry_quiver_back_right,150,weight(2.2)|abundance(20)|weapon_length(95)|thrust_damage(10,pierce)|max_ammo(27),imodbits_missile,missile_distance_trigger,[fac_kingdom_3]],
["we_khe_arrow_patternyellow","Yellow Pattern Arrows",[("we_khe_arrow_patternyellow",0),("we_khe_arrow_patternyellow_flying",ixmesh_flying_ammo),("we_khe_quiver_patternyellow",ixmesh_carry)],itp_merchandise|itp_type_arrows,itcf_carry_quiver_back_right,150,weight(2.2)|abundance(20)|weapon_length(95)|thrust_damage(10,pierce)|max_ammo(27),imodbits_missile,missile_distance_trigger,[fac_kingdom_3]],
["we_khe_arrow_patternyellowgreen","Yellow Green Pattern Arrows",[("we_khe_arrow_patternyellowgreen",0),("we_khe_arrow_patternyellowgreen_flying",ixmesh_flying_ammo),("we_khe_quiver_patternyellow",ixmesh_carry)],itp_merchandise|itp_type_arrows,itcf_carry_quiver_back_right,150,weight(2.2)|abundance(20)|weapon_length(95)|thrust_damage(10,pierce)|max_ammo(27),imodbits_missile,missile_distance_trigger,[fac_kingdom_3]],
#Nord - 2
#Minimal - 2
["we_nor_arrow_bodkin","Bodkin Arrows",[("we_nor_arrow_bodkin",0),("we_nor_arrow_bodkin_flying",ixmesh_flying_ammo),("we_nor_quiver_bodkin",ixmesh_carry)],itp_type_arrows|itp_merchandise|itp_can_penetrate_shield,itcf_carry_quiver_back_right,120,weight(2.5)|abundance(100)|weapon_length(91)|thrust_damage(10,pierce)|max_ammo(30),imodbits_missile,[],[fac_kingdom_4] ],
["we_nor_arrow_barbed","Barbed Arrows",[("we_nor_arrow_barbed",0),("we_nor_arrow_barbed_flying",ixmesh_flying_ammo),("we_nor_quiver_barbed",ixmesh_carry)],itp_type_arrows|itp_merchandise,itcf_carry_quiver_back_right,120,weight(2.65)|abundance(100)|weapon_length(95)|thrust_damage(13,pierce)|max_ammo(27),imodbits_missile,[],[fac_kingdom_4] ],
#Rhodok - 3
#Minimal - 3
["we_rho_bolt","Bolts",[("we_rho_bolt",0),("we_rho_bolt_flying",ixmesh_flying_ammo),("we_rho_bolt_bag",ixmesh_carry),("we_rho_bolt_bag_b",ixmesh_carry|imodbit_large_bag)],itp_type_bolts|itp_merchandise|itp_default_ammo|itp_can_penetrate_shield,itcf_carry_quiver_right_vertical,64,weight(2)|abundance(100)|weapon_length(63)|thrust_damage(10,pierce)|max_ammo(27),imodbits_missile,missile_distance_trigger,[fac_kingdom_5,fac_player_faction]],
["we_rho_bolt_steel","Steel Bolts",[("we_rho_bolt",0),("we_rho_bolt_flying",ixmesh_flying_ammo),("we_rho_bolt_steel_bag",ixmesh_carry)],itp_type_bolts|itp_merchandise|itp_can_penetrate_shield,itcf_carry_quiver_right_vertical,210,weight(4)|abundance(60)|weapon_length(63)|thrust_damage(20,pierce)|max_ammo(27),imodbits_missile,missile_distance_trigger,[fac_kingdom_5,fac_player_faction]],
["we_rho_cartridges","Cartridges",[("we_rho_cartridges",0)],itp_type_bullets|itp_merchandise|itp_can_penetrate_shield|itp_default_ammo,0,41,weight(3.25)|abundance(30)|weapon_length(3)|thrust_damage(30,pierce)|max_ammo(50),imodbits_missile,missile_distance_trigger],
#Sarranid - 3
#Minimal - 2
["we_sar_arrow_sarranid","Sarranid Arrows",[("we_sar_arrow_sarranid",0),("we_sar_arrow_sarranid_flying",ixmesh_flying_ammo),("we_sar_quiver_sarranid",ixmesh_carry)],itp_type_arrows|itp_merchandise,itcf_carry_quiver_back_right,90,weight(1.6)|abundance(100)|weapon_length(91)|thrust_damage(9,pierce)|max_ammo(32),imodbits_missile,[],[fac_kingdom_6] ],
["we_sar_arrow_desert","Desert Arrows",[("we_sar_arrow_desert",0),("we_sar_arrow_desert_flying",ixmesh_flying_ammo),("we_sar_quiver_desert",ixmesh_carry)],itp_type_arrows|itp_merchandise,itcf_carry_quiver_back_right,90,weight(1.95)|abundance(100)|weapon_length(91)|thrust_damage(6,pierce)|max_ammo(36),imodbits_missile,[],[fac_kingdom_6] ],
#Expanded - 1
["we_sar_arrow_black","Black Arrows",[("we_sar_arrow_black",0),("we_sar_arrow_black_flying",ixmesh_flying_ammo),("we_sar_quiver_black",ixmesh_carry)],itp_type_arrows|itp_merchandise,itcf_carry_quiver_back_right,220,weight(2.75)|abundance(40)|weapon_length(95)|thrust_damage(16,pierce)|max_ammo(24),imodbits_missile,[],[fac_kingdom_6] ],
#Player Faction - 2
#Minimal - 2
["we_pla_arrow","Arrows",[("we_pla_arrow",0),("we_pla_arrow_flying",ixmesh_flying_ammo),("we_pla_quiver",ixmesh_carry)],itp_merchandise|itp_type_arrows|itp_default_ammo,itcf_carry_quiver_back,72,weight(1.75)|abundance(25)|weapon_length(95)|thrust_damage(10,pierce)|max_ammo(32),imodbits_missile,missile_distance_trigger],
["we_pla_arrow_amazon","Amazon Arrows",[("we_pla_arrow_amazon",0),("we_pla_arrow_amazon_flying",ixmesh_flying_ammo),("we_pla_quiver_amazon",ixmesh_carry)],itp_type_arrows|itp_merchandise|itp_can_penetrate_shield,itcf_carry_quiver_back_right,196,weight(2.2)|abundance(15)|weapon_length(91)|thrust_damage(12,pierce)|max_ammo(27),imodbits_missile],

##Bows & Crossbows - 39

#Swadia - 6
#Minimal - 3
["we_swa_bow_practice","Swadian Practice Bow",[("we_swa_bow_practice",0),("we_swa_bow_practice_carry",ixmesh_carry)],itp_merchandise|itp_type_bow|itp_merchandise|itp_primary|itp_two_handed,itcf_shoot_bow|itcf_carry_bow_back,49,weight(1.5)|abundance(120)|difficulty(0)|spd_rtng(80)|shoot_speed(30)|thrust_damage(20,cut)|accuracy(95),imodbits_bow,[],[fac_kingdom_1]],
["we_swa_bow_straight","Straight Bow",[("we_swa_bow_straight",0),("we_swa_bow_straight_carry",ixmesh_carry)],itp_merchandise|itp_type_bow|itp_merchandise|itp_primary|itp_two_handed,itcf_shoot_bow|itcf_carry_bow_back,208,weight(1.5)|abundance(80)|difficulty(1)|spd_rtng(74)|shoot_speed(40)|thrust_damage(29,cut)|accuracy(95),imodbits_bow,[],[fac_kingdom_1]],
["we_swa_bow_long","Longbow",[("we_swa_bow_long",0),("we_swa_bow_long_carry",ixmesh_carry)],itp_merchandise|itp_type_bow|itp_merchandise|itp_primary|itp_two_handed,itcf_shoot_bow|itcf_carry_bow_back,719,weight(1.75)|abundance(60)|difficulty(3)|spd_rtng(59)|shoot_speed(52)|thrust_damage(32,pierce)|accuracy(90),imodbits_bow,[],[fac_kingdom_1]],
#Expanded - 3
["we_swa_bow_short","Shortbow",[("we_swa_bow_short",0),("we_swa_bow_short_carry",ixmesh_carry)],itp_merchandise|itp_type_bow|itp_merchandise|itp_primary|itp_two_handed,itcf_shoot_bow|itcf_carry_bow_back,131,weight(1)|abundance(90)|difficulty(1)|spd_rtng(75)|shoot_speed(34)|thrust_damage(29,cut)|accuracy(95),imodbits_bow,[],[fac_kingdom_1]],
["we_swa_bow_self","Self Bow",[("we_swa_bow_self",0),("we_swa_bow_self_carry",ixmesh_carry)],itp_merchandise|itp_type_bow|itp_merchandise|itp_primary|itp_two_handed,itcf_shoot_bow|itcf_carry_bow_back,433,weight(1.75)|abundance(70)|difficulty(2)|spd_rtng(65)|shoot_speed(44)|thrust_damage(36,cut)|accuracy(90),imodbits_bow,[],[fac_kingdom_1]],
["we_swa_bow","Swadian Longbow",[("we_swa_bow",0),("we_swa_bow_carry",ixmesh_carry)],itp_merchandise|itp_type_bow|itp_merchandise|itp_primary|itp_two_handed,itcf_shoot_bow|itcf_carry_bow_back,1193,weight(2)|abundance(50)|difficulty(4)|spd_rtng(55)|shoot_speed(62)|thrust_damage(40,pierce)|accuracy(85),imodbits_bow,[],[fac_kingdom_1]],
#Vaegir - 6
#Minimal - 3
["we_vae_bow_hunting","Imperial Hunting Bow",[("we_vae_bow_hunting",0),("we_vae_bow_hunting_carry",ixmesh_carry)],itp_merchandise|itp_type_bow|itp_merchandise|itp_primary|itp_two_handed,itcf_shoot_bow|itcf_carry_bow_back,233,weight(1.25)|abundance(90)|difficulty(1)|spd_rtng(72)|shoot_speed(39)|thrust_damage(29,cut)|accuracy(95),imodbits_bow,[],[fac_kingdom_2]],
["we_vae_bow_war","War Bow",[("we_vae_bow_war",0),("we_vae_bow_war_carry",ixmesh_carry)],itp_merchandise|itp_type_bow|itp_merchandise|itp_primary|itp_two_handed,itcf_shoot_bow|itcf_carry_bow_back,585,weight(1.25)|abundance(70)|difficulty(3)|spd_rtng(61)|shoot_speed(55)|thrust_damage(31,pierce)|accuracy(90),imodbit_cracked|imodbit_bent|imodbit_masterwork,[],[fac_kingdom_2]],
["we_vae_bow_imperial","Imperial War Bow",[("we_vae_bow_imperial",0),("we_vae_bow_imperial_case",ixmesh_carry)],itp_merchandise|itp_type_bow|itp_merchandise|itp_primary|itp_two_handed,itcf_shoot_bow|itcf_carry_bowcase_left,1240,weight(1.5)|abundance(60)|difficulty(4)|spd_rtng(55)|shoot_speed(63)|thrust_damage(40,pierce)|accuracy(90),imodbit_cracked|imodbit_bent|imodbit_masterwork,[],[fac_kingdom_2]],
#Expanded - 3
["we_vae_bow_practice","Vaegir Practice Bow",[("we_vae_bow_practice",0),("we_vae_bow_practice_carry",ixmesh_carry)],itp_merchandise|itp_type_bow|itp_merchandise|itp_primary|itp_two_handed,itcf_shoot_bow|itcf_carry_bow_back,258,weight(1.25)|abundance(120)|difficulty(0)|spd_rtng(76)|shoot_speed(34)|thrust_damage(20,cut)|accuracy(95),imodbits_bow,[],[fac_kingdom_2]],
["we_vae_bow_white","White Hunting Bow",[("we_vae_bow_white",0),("we_vae_bow_white_carry",ixmesh_carry)],itp_merchandise|itp_type_bow|itp_merchandise|itp_primary|itp_two_handed,itcf_shoot_bow|itcf_carry_bow_back,264,weight(1.25)|abundance(100)|difficulty(1)|spd_rtng(77)|shoot_speed(40)|thrust_damage(32,cut)|accuracy(95),imodbits_bow,[],[fac_kingdom_2]],
["we_vae_bow_black","Black War Bow",[("we_vae_bow_black",0),("we_vae_bow_black_carry",ixmesh_carry)],itp_merchandise|itp_type_bow|itp_merchandise|itp_primary|itp_two_handed,itcf_shoot_bow|itcf_carry_bow_back,1217,weight(1.25)|abundance(80)|difficulty(5)|spd_rtng(52)|shoot_speed(65)|thrust_damage(44,pierce)|accuracy(85),imodbits_bow,[],[fac_kingdom_2]],
#Khergit - 10
#Minimal - 3
["we_khe_bow_practice","Khergit Practice Bow",[("we_khe_bow_practice",0),("we_khe_bow_practice_case",ixmesh_carry)],itp_merchandise|itp_type_bow|itp_merchandise|itp_primary|itp_two_handed,itcf_shoot_bow|itcf_carry_bowcase_left|itcf_show_holster_when_drawn,50,weight(1.25)|abundance(120)|difficulty(0)|spd_rtng(77)|shoot_speed(34)|thrust_damage(15,cut)|accuracy(95),imodbits_bow,[],[fac_kingdom_3]],
["we_khe_bow_red","Red Khergit Bow",[("we_khe_bow_red",0),("we_khe_case_red",ixmesh_carry)],itp_merchandise|itp_type_bow|itp_merchandise|itp_primary|itp_two_handed,itcf_shoot_bow|itcf_carry_bowcase_left|itcf_show_holster_when_drawn,250,weight(1.25)|abundance(80)|difficulty(1)|spd_rtng(70)|shoot_speed(42)|thrust_damage(25,cut)|accuracy(95),imodbits_bow,[],[fac_kingdom_3]],
["we_khe_bow_strong","Strong Khergit Bow",[("we_khe_bow_strong",0),("we_khe_case_strong",ixmesh_carry)],itp_merchandise|itp_type_bow|itp_merchandise|itp_primary|itp_two_handed,itcf_shoot_bow|itcf_carry_bowcase_left|itcf_show_holster_when_drawn,750,weight(1.75)|abundance(60)|difficulty(2)|spd_rtng(64)|shoot_speed(50)|thrust_damage(29,cut)|accuracy(90),imodbits_bow_minus_strong,[],[fac_kingdom_3]],
#Expanded - 7
["we_khe_bow_light","Light Khergit Bow",[("we_khe_bow_practice",0),("we_khe_bow_practice_case",ixmesh_carry)],itp_merchandise|itp_type_bow|itp_merchandise|itp_primary|itp_two_handed,itcf_shoot_bow|itcf_carry_bowcase_left|itcf_show_holster_when_drawn,150,weight(1.25)|abundance(90)|difficulty(0)|spd_rtng(80)|shoot_speed(32)|thrust_damage(16,cut)|accuracy(95),imodbits_bow,[],[fac_kingdom_3]],
["we_khe_bow","Khergit Bow",[("we_khe_bow",0),("we_khe_case",ixmesh_carry)],itp_merchandise|itp_type_bow|itp_merchandise|itp_primary|itp_two_handed,itcf_shoot_bow|itcf_carry_bowcase_left|itcf_show_holster_when_drawn,450,weight(1.75)|abundance(70)|difficulty(3)|spd_rtng(62)|shoot_speed(59)|thrust_damage(20,cut)|accuracy(90),imodbits_bow,[],[fac_kingdom_3]],
["we_khe_bow_heavy","Heavy Khergit Bow",[("we_khe_bow_heavy",0),("we_khe_case_heavy",ixmesh_carry)],itp_merchandise|itp_type_bow|itp_merchandise|itp_primary|itp_two_handed,itcf_shoot_bow|itcf_carry_bowcase_left|itcf_show_holster_when_drawn,1150,weight(1.75)|abundance(50)|difficulty(5)|spd_rtng(50)|shoot_speed(63)|thrust_damage(42,pierce)|accuracy(90),imodbits_bow,[],[fac_kingdom_3]],
["we_khe_bow_patterngreen","Green Pattern Bow",[("we_khe_bow_patterngreen",0),("we_khe_case_patterngreen",ixmesh_carry)],itp_merchandise|itp_type_bow|itp_merchandise|itp_primary|itp_two_handed,itcf_shoot_bow|itcf_carry_bowcase_left|itcf_show_holster_when_drawn,1350,weight(2)|abundance(30)|difficulty(4)|spd_rtng(54)|shoot_speed(58)|thrust_damage(34,pierce)|accuracy(90),imodbits_bow,[],[fac_kingdom_3]],
["we_khe_bow_patternred","Red Pattern Bow",[("we_khe_bow_patternred",0),("we_khe_case_patternred",ixmesh_carry)],itp_merchandise|itp_type_bow|itp_merchandise|itp_primary|itp_two_handed,itcf_shoot_bow|itcf_carry_bowcase_left|itcf_show_holster_when_drawn,1350,weight(2)|abundance(30)|difficulty(4)|spd_rtng(54)|shoot_speed(58)|thrust_damage(34,pierce)|accuracy(90),imodbits_bow,[],[fac_kingdom_3]],
["we_khe_bow_patternyellow","Yellow Pattern Bow",[("we_khe_bow_patternyellow",0),("we_khe_case_patternyellow",ixmesh_carry)],itp_merchandise|itp_type_bow|itp_merchandise|itp_primary|itp_two_handed,itcf_shoot_bow|itcf_carry_bowcase_left|itcf_show_holster_when_drawn,1350,weight(2)|abundance(30)|difficulty(4)|spd_rtng(54)|shoot_speed(58)|thrust_damage(34,pierce)|accuracy(90),imodbits_bow,[],[fac_kingdom_3]],
["we_khe_bow_patternyellowgreen","Yellow Green Pattern Bow",[("we_khe_bow_patternyellowgreen",0),("we_khe_case_patternyellowgreen",ixmesh_carry)],itp_merchandise|itp_type_bow|itp_merchandise|itp_primary|itp_two_handed,itcf_shoot_bow|itcf_carry_bowcase_left|itcf_show_holster_when_drawn,1350,weight(2)|abundance(30)|difficulty(4)|spd_rtng(54)|shoot_speed(58)|thrust_damage(34,pierce)|accuracy(90),imodbits_bow,[],[fac_kingdom_3]],
#Nord - 3
#Minimal - 2
["we_nor_bow_hunting","Hunting Bow",[("we_nor_bow_hunting",0),("we_nor_bow_hunting_carry",ixmesh_carry)],itp_merchandise|itp_type_bow|itp_merchandise|itp_primary|itp_two_handed,itcf_shoot_bow|itcf_carry_bow_back,120,weight(0)|abundance(90)|difficulty(0)|spd_rtng(82)|shoot_speed(30)|thrust_damage(16,cut)|accuracy(95),imodbits_bow,[],[fac_kingdom_4]],
["we_nor_bow","Nord Bow",[("we_nor_bow",0),("we_nor_bow_carry",ixmesh_carry)],itp_merchandise|itp_type_bow|itp_merchandise|itp_primary|itp_two_handed,itcf_shoot_bow|itcf_carry_bow_back,220,weight(1)|abundance(80)|difficulty(1)|spd_rtng(77)|shoot_speed(39)|thrust_damage(28,cut)|accuracy(95),imodbits_bow,[],[fac_kingdom_4]],
#Expanded - 1
["we_nor_bow_strong","Nord Strong Bow",[("we_nor_bow_strong",0),("we_nor_bow_strong_carry",ixmesh_carry)],itp_merchandise|itp_type_bow|itp_merchandise|itp_primary|itp_two_handed,itcf_shoot_bow|itcf_carry_bow_back,420,weight(1)|abundance(70)|difficulty(3)|spd_rtng(64)|shoot_speed(54)|thrust_damage(29,pierce)|accuracy(85),imodbits_bow_minus_strong,[],[fac_kingdom_4]],
#Rhodok - 6
#Minimal - 3
["we_rho_crossbow_hunting","Hunting Crossbow",[("we_rho_crossbow_hunting",0)],itp_type_crossbow|itp_merchandise|itp_primary|itp_two_handed,itcf_shoot_crossbow|itcf_carry_crossbow_back,22,weight(2.25)|abundance(120)|difficulty(0)|spd_rtng(60)|shoot_speed(50)|thrust_damage(40,cut)|max_ammo(1)|accuracy(100),imodbits_crossbow,[],[fac_kingdom_5,fac_player_faction]],
["we_rho_crossbow","Crossbow",[("we_rho_crossbow",0)],itp_type_crossbow|itp_merchandise|itp_primary|itp_two_handed,itcf_shoot_crossbow|itcf_carry_crossbow_back,182,weight(3)|abundance(90)|difficulty(10)|spd_rtng(45)|shoot_speed(66)|thrust_damage(48,pierce)|max_ammo(1)|accuracy(100),imodbits_crossbow,[],[fac_kingdom_5,fac_player_faction]],
["we_rho_crossbow_siege","Siege Crossbow",[("we_rho_crossbow_siege",0)],itp_type_crossbow|itp_merchandise|itp_primary|itp_two_handed,itcf_shoot_crossbow|itcf_carry_crossbow_back,683,weight(3.75)|abundance(70)|difficulty(14)|spd_rtng(25)|shoot_speed(70)|thrust_damage(70,pierce)|max_ammo(1)|accuracy(100),imodbits_crossbow,[],[fac_kingdom_5,fac_player_faction]],
#Expanded - 3
["we_rho_crossbow_light","Light Crossbow",[("we_rho_crossbow_light",0)],itp_type_crossbow|itp_merchandise|itp_primary|itp_two_handed,itcf_shoot_crossbow|itcf_carry_crossbow_back,67,weight(2.5)|abundance(100)|difficulty(0)|spd_rtng(65)|shoot_speed(45)|thrust_damage(36,cut)|max_ammo(1)|accuracy(100),imodbits_crossbow,[],[fac_kingdom_5,fac_player_faction]],
["we_rho_crossbow_heavy","Heavy Crossbow",[("we_rho_crossbow_heavy",0)],itp_type_crossbow|itp_merchandise|itp_primary|itp_two_handed|itp_cant_reload_on_horseback,itcf_shoot_crossbow|itcf_carry_crossbow_back,349,weight(3.5)|abundance(80)|difficulty(12)|spd_rtng(35)|shoot_speed(65)|thrust_damage(65,pierce)|max_ammo(1)|accuracy(100),imodbits_crossbow,[],[fac_kingdom_5,fac_player_faction]],
["we_rho_crossbow_arbalest","Arbalest",[("we_rho_crossbow_arbalest",0)],itp_type_crossbow|itp_merchandise|itp_primary|itp_two_handed|itp_cant_reload_on_horseback,itcf_shoot_crossbow|itcf_carry_crossbow_back,1253,weight(4.25)|abundance(60)|difficulty(16)|spd_rtng(20)|shoot_speed(76)|thrust_damage(80,pierce)|max_ammo(1)|accuracy(100),imodbits_crossbow,[],[fac_kingdom_5]],
#Sarranid - 6
#Minimal - 3
["we_sar_bow_practice","Sarranid Practice Bow",[("we_sar_bow_practice",0),("we_sar_bow_practice_case",ixmesh_carry)],itp_merchandise|itp_type_bow|itp_merchandise|itp_primary|itp_two_handed,itcf_shoot_bow|itcf_carry_bowcase_left|itcf_show_holster_when_drawn,58,weight(1.25)|abundance(120)|difficulty(0)|spd_rtng(81)|shoot_speed(32)|thrust_damage(18,cut)|accuracy(95),imodbits_bow,[],[fac_kingdom_6]],
["we_sar_bow_leopard","Leopard Bow",[("we_sar_bow_leopard",0),("we_sar_bow_leopard_case",ixmesh_carry)],itp_merchandise|itp_type_bow|itp_merchandise|itp_primary|itp_two_handed,itcf_shoot_bow|itcf_carry_bowcase_left|itcf_show_holster_when_drawn,233,weight(1.25)|abundance(90)|difficulty(2)|spd_rtng(72)|shoot_speed(48)|thrust_damage(33,cut)|accuracy(90),imodbits_bow,[],[fac_kingdom_6]],
["we_sar_bow_recurved","Sarranid Recurved Bow",[("we_sar_bow_recurved",0),("we_sar_bow_recurved_case",ixmesh_carry)],itp_merchandise|itp_type_bow|itp_merchandise|itp_primary|itp_two_handed,itcf_shoot_bow|itcf_carry_bowcase_left|itcf_show_holster_when_drawn,421,weight(1.25)|abundance(80)|difficulty(3)|spd_rtng(64)|shoot_speed(56)|thrust_damage(32,pierce)|accuracy(90),imodbit_cracked|imodbit_bent|imodbit_masterwork,[],[fac_kingdom_6]],
#Expanded - 3
["we_sar_bow_desert","Desert Bow",[("we_sar_bow_desert",0),("we_sar_bow_desert_case",ixmesh_carry)],itp_merchandise|itp_type_bow|itp_merchandise|itp_primary|itp_two_handed,itcf_shoot_bow|itcf_carry_bowcase_left|itcf_show_holster_when_drawn,164,weight(1.25)|abundance(100)|difficulty(1)|spd_rtng(72)|shoot_speed(43)|thrust_damage(27,cut)|accuracy(95),imodbits_bow,[],[fac_kingdom_6]],
["we_sar_bow_strong","Strong Bow",[("we_sar_bow_strong",0),("we_sar_bow_strong_case",ixmesh_carry)],itp_merchandise|itp_type_bow|itp_merchandise|itp_primary|itp_two_handed,itcf_shoot_bow|itcf_carry_bowcase_left|itcf_show_holster_when_drawn,585,weight(1.25)|abundance(70)|difficulty(3)|spd_rtng(58)|shoot_speed(50)|thrust_damage(35,cut)|accuracy(85),imodbits_bow_minus_strong,[],[fac_kingdom_6]],
["we_sar_bow_sarranid","Sarranid Strong Bow",[("we_sar_bow_sarranid",0),("we_sar_bow_sarranid_case",ixmesh_carry)],itp_merchandise|itp_type_bow|itp_merchandise|itp_primary|itp_two_handed,itcf_shoot_bow|itcf_carry_bowcase_left|itcf_show_holster_when_drawn,814,weight(2.35)|abundance(60)|difficulty(4)|spd_rtng(54)|shoot_speed(56)|thrust_damage(33,pierce)|accuracy(85),imodbit_cracked|imodbit_bent|imodbit_masterwork,[],[fac_kingdom_6]],
#Player Faction - 2
#Minimal - 2
["we_pla_bow_amazon","Amazon Bow",[("we_pla_bow_amazon",0),("we_pla_bow_amazon_case",ixmesh_carry)],itp_merchandise|itp_type_bow|itp_primary|itp_two_handed,itcf_shoot_bow|itcf_carry_bowcase_left,750,weight(1.25)|abundance(60)|difficulty(2)|spd_rtng(65)|shoot_speed(48)|thrust_damage(36,cut)|accuracy(90),imodbits_bow,[],[fac_player_faction]],
# Guns
["we_pla_pistol_arquebus","Arquebus",[("we_pla_pistol_arquebus",0)],itp_type_musket|itp_merchandise|itp_primary|itp_two_handed,itcf_reload_musket|itcf_carry_spear|itcf_shoot_musket,230,weight(4)|abundance(20)|difficulty(0)|spd_rtng(42)|shoot_speed(105)|thrust_damage(54,pierce)|max_ammo(1)|accuracy(80),imodbits_none,[(ti_on_weapon_attack,[(play_sound,"snd_pistol_shot"),(position_move_x,pos1,0),(position_move_y,pos1,100),(particle_system_burst,"psys_pistol_smoke",pos1,15)])],[fac_kingdom_3,fac_kingdom_5,fac_kingdom_6,fac_player_faction]],
["we_pla_pistol_blunderbus","Blunderbus",[("we_pla_pistol_blunderbus",0)],itp_type_musket|itp_merchandise|itp_primary|itp_two_handed,itcf_reload_musket|itcf_carry_spear|itcf_shoot_musket,450,weight(4.5)|abundance(20)|difficulty(0)|spd_rtng(42)|shoot_speed(98)|thrust_damage(63,pierce)|max_ammo(1)|accuracy(85),imodbits_none,[(ti_on_weapon_attack,[(play_sound,"snd_pistol_shot"),(position_move_x,pos1,0),(position_move_y,pos1,72),(particle_system_burst,"psys_pistol_smoke",pos1,15)])],[fac_kingdom_3,fac_kingdom_5,fac_kingdom_6,fac_player_faction]],
["we_pla_pistol_matchlock","Matchlock Rifle",[("we_pla_pistol_matchlock",0)],itp_type_musket|itp_merchandise|itp_primary|itp_two_handed,itcf_reload_musket|itcf_carry_spear|itcf_shoot_musket,680,weight(5)|abundance(15)|difficulty(0)|spd_rtng(40)|shoot_speed(114)|thrust_damage(72,pierce)|max_ammo(1)|accuracy(90),imodbits_none,[(ti_on_weapon_attack,[(play_sound,"snd_pistol_shot"),(position_move_x,pos1,0),(position_move_y,pos1,107),(particle_system_burst,"psys_pistol_smoke",pos1,15)])],[fac_kingdom_3,fac_kingdom_5,fac_kingdom_6,fac_player_faction]],
["we_pla_pistol_flintlock_rifle","Flintlock Rifle",[("we_pla_pistol_flintlock_rifle",0)],itp_type_musket|itp_merchandise|itp_primary|itp_two_handed,itcf_reload_musket|itcf_carry_spear|itcf_shoot_musket,1230,weight(5.5)|abundance(10)|difficulty(0)|spd_rtng(44)|shoot_speed(128)|thrust_damage(81,pierce)|max_ammo(1)|accuracy(95),imodbits_none,[(ti_on_weapon_attack,[(play_sound,"snd_pistol_shot"),(position_move_x,pos1,0),(position_move_y,pos1,139),(particle_system_burst,"psys_pistol_smoke",pos1,15)])],[fac_kingdom_3,fac_kingdom_5,fac_kingdom_6,fac_player_faction]],
["we_pla_pistol_flintlock","Flintlock Pistol",[("we_pla_pistol_flintlock",0),("we_pla_pistol_flintlock_good",imodbits_good)],itp_type_pistol|itp_primary|itp_secondary,itcf_shoot_pistol|itcf_reload_pistol,450,weight(1.5)|abundance(25)|difficulty(0)|spd_rtng(64)|shoot_speed(89)|thrust_damage(50,pierce)|max_ammo(1)|accuracy(75),imodbits_none,[(ti_on_weapon_attack,[(play_sound,"snd_pistol_shot"),(position_move_x,pos1,27),(position_move_y,pos1,36),(particle_system_burst,"psys_pistol_smoke",pos1,15)])],[fac_kingdom_3,fac_kingdom_5,fac_kingdom_6,fac_player_faction]],

Generalized changes:

Spoiler

- Power Draw requirement now reflects the actual difficulty of the bow in terms of required strength to pull it. If you have 3 Power Draw (about 9 Strength), you can only use the lighter bows. The truly few powerful bows require more strength training.

- Bow reload speed is greatly slowed for all bows. The more difficult a bow is to use (heavier draw weight, denoted by their Power Draw requirement), the slower it is to fire, but it also does more damage and fires a faster arrow. It now looks more natural with the custom bow animations, and it feels more authentic. Somehow it doesn't seem to have reduced the deadliness of AI archers, probably because they spend more time thinking about their shots now.

- Bow damage has been tweaked to reflect the supposed draw weight of the bow. Bows are generally more powerful. The lighter bows (up to Power Draw 2) only use cut damage. Power Draw 3 and up use piercing damage.

- Arrow damage has been tweaked to make it so that using different kinds of arrows can have some effect on your performance (the standard +1 or +2 was almost useless).

- Bow accuracy has been tweaked. "Practice" bows are the most accurate of all bows, because it should be relatively easy to hold it steady to your target. However, if you're only using a Practice bow, you probably also have a low Proficiency and Power Draw level, and therefore are personally inaccurate and do low damage with it anyway. The heavier the bow, the more inaccurate it becomes (requiring you to rely on your Proficiency level to hit accurately). The logic behind this is that while some warriors may be strong enough to consistently pull and hold a 150 lbf bow, they might not be skilled archers and therefore the bow is almost useless in their hands anyway.

- Missile speed as they are loosed from the bow has also been tweaked. This is to reflect the differences in draw weights between the bows. Practice bows (about 30-50 lbf) are generally very light, and shoot the arrows at a low velocity. This means you need to arc your shot a bit more for distant shots. The stupidly powerful war bows (like the Vaegir Black War Bow) are very difficult to use, but shoot the arrows at a really high velocity, almost matching crossbow bolt speeds.

- Crossbow and bolt damage has been tweaked just to make it look like it matches the archery weapons. In general, it should have the same damage per shot.

- All bows can be used and reloaded on horseback (just like real life). That doesn't make them easy to use though, as the slow rates of fire means you're going to be more thoughtful with each shot.

- The "Crossbow" can now be used on horseback, just for balance.

- Bow and arrow weights have been tweaked slightly.

- The number of arrows in a quiver has been slightly increased and varied, with a little sense attributing to the style of archery (English longbowmen were given a large number of arrows to fire continuously at their opponents, for example).

- The Amazon Bow and Amazon Arrows, as well as the normal "Arrows" have been made available in shops, but somewhat rarely.

- Muskets (not normally available in the game but edited just for completion) have been improved. They are virtually useless without tweaks. If you're using muskets in your game, then you're playing a for-fun game anyway. Might as well make muskets more fun.

All of this has been tested extensively over various situations (open field: flatland, forest, steppe, both night and day; siege; both offense and defense). The results are the following:

Spoiler

- The AI takes more time to shoot. This somehow leads to their being more effective per shot, even if they're getting less kills per second.

- Even lower level archers can be useful now. Previously, a tier 2 archer could barely even damage you if you were wearing tier 5 armor or up, even on a direct body shot. Now they can actually hurt you a little.

- All in all despite the slower speeds, the balance of power is still the same (Swadians, Vaegirs and Khergits are still monsters of archery). Organized archers are particularly deadly. Volley fire is a viable option now for archers using similar bows.

- My character tested with only 5 in Power Draw (15 Strength; can't equip Heavy/Masterwork versions of some bows) and about 400 proficiency. Using lighter bows (the most powerful ones that have cut damage) reveals that I can kill lightly armored opponents effectively, but heavily-armored opponents can take as many as three body shots (even sometimes surviving a head shot). Using the heaviest bows I can use (that have piercing damage), tier 6 and 7 opponents may still survive a body shot, but will die from a head shot.

- I now have to choose between a lighter and faster bow that might not kill a charging heavy cavalryman, or a slower and more powerful bow that can kill that charger, but will not help much against the light infantry that come after him.

- Fast, shieldless infantry are now more useful! Circle them around the enemy archer line and attack from the flanks. If you personally play without shields (like me), you can also use your speed to your advantage. I go on flanking runs with some of my troops and we generally take little or no casualties at all along the way. This is because the enemy takes more time to shoot, and may reconsider his shot if his target is moving too quickly.

Feel free to leave comments and suggestions on how to improve it, or even update with your own tweaks to improve the system. I like it so far but I'm always open to improvement.

 

[oh_no]

Interesting!  I'll do some playing with this once I get home later.  I'll have to set all of the pistols to crossbows again, but I'm curious to see what sort of difference this makes.

 

[Duh]

Just as a sidenote for balance/realism/whatnot fans - depending on your feedback some of this may be implemented in the main mod. Make sure to test things out, its for your own good

 

[Michiko]

Added a demo video to the first post. Instead of commenting in YouTube, leave your comments here so it's easier for me to monitor if you guys have suggestions.

 

[oh_no]

I haven't had as much time to play as I thought I would, but here are my initial thoughts:

• I'm now forced to be more conservative with my shots when using a piercing bow.
• I've been alternating between zooming in and not zooming when taking my shots (for those who never noticed, when you zoom in with a bow, your reticule expands and your shot is less reliable)
• For the first time since purchasing Warband, I am carrying around more than just the strongest bow I can get my hands on.
• The new bow speeds suit the animation very well.
• Bandit ambushes in towns and villages are now less frustrating.  Because of the reduced firing speeds and accuracy, you no longer get turned into a pincushion the moment you enter the scene.  You actually get to see a few arrows fly overhead as you charge toward them.
• The difference in arrow strengths now has me carrying around different types of arrows; a stronger, small number of black arrows for battles in the filed (where I can ride back and restock if needed) and a weaker, larger number of Sarranid Arrows for sieges.
• The variety of bow and arrows types no longer feels redundant.  It's no longer a sufficient to find an Imperial War Bow or Sarranid Strong Bow with a larger bag of Amazon Arrows and be content.  The stats make certain types more viable depending on your location and the type of enemy you'll be fighting, and so the large number of bows and arrows no longer feels like a cosmetic addition.

 

[Michiko]

lol

Glad you like it so far. I also feel like a better archer suddenly. I'm getting fewer shots off per second but I feel like I'm hitting more, even with the 85 accuracy bows. It's probably just a psychological thing but maybe taking more time per shot is also helping, whereas I would just keep firing and firing until I hit before.

I play a very mobile character, and I personally tend to use the most arrows that comes from a Large Bag while maintaining the least possible weight. This way I can carry two of them and still be able to dart around the battlefield as necessary.

Spoiler

Currently working on rebalancing and fixing the stats of the other weapons and shields as well, so they all feel more varied (also fixing the weapon lengths and shield sizes, so a small shield actually only covers that small area, etc.). I think I'm satisfied with how the armors are balanced so far (they make sense for the most part) and there's enough variety that I can mix and match certain articles to get the most balance between protection, mobility and style that I can get.

 

[spartan012]

Splendid work. Would it take much longer to fire from a long bow?

 

[Michiko]

Yeah the Swadian Longbow is one of the slowest bows in the game. The Longbow is also significantly slow. The other longbows in the game like the Self Bow and Straight Bow are about average speed (but still much slower than Native/default Floris settings).

The only "fast" bows are practice bows, whose draw weights typically for children or people that are just now learning to use a bow. But in the hands of a good archer, a practice bow might be a deadly weapon against unarmored opponents, but may not be enough to bring down a knight in plate armor.

- edit:
Changed the "Khergit Heavy Bow" to be 5 difficulty (and therefore slower + stronger as well), to differentiate it from the "Khergit Bow" and add some variety between it and the "pattern bows". If you already have my tweaks, you only need to copy and overwrite the relevant line.

Spoiler

 itm_we_khe_bow_heavy Heavy_Khergit_Bow Heavy_Khergit_Bow 2  we_khe_bow_heavy 0  we_khe_case_heavy 3458764513820540928  6357000 37312532480 1150 655370 1.750000 50 0 0 90 5 0 50 63 0 0 298 0
 1
 18
0

Also! I'd like to hear everybody's input on the balance between the arrows, particularly price vs. damage + arrow count. I'm all for variety (obviously) but I want you guys to check if there are some arrows that seem too cheap or expensive for their relative performance, etc.

 

[ruralvirginian]

Best arrow for the price are the Sarrinid Black Arrows.  You can pick up a normall load of 28 +3 arrows for under 600 denars.  Khergit 'colored arrows" (green, yellow, Mongolian piercing reds) usually run over 800 denars for the same +3 ability.

Also, many folks dismiss the Nord bows.  They may be low in power (26-2 but the speed is usually 120.  In the hands of an expert archer (+5 and above) a Nord bow with black arrows becomes a very deadly proposition - 2-3 arrows placed accurately in the time it takes a crossbowman or longbowman to place one.

 

[Michiko]

Uhh... I'm talking about the balance from my tweaks. D: None of what you said is true anymore since the tweaks.

 

[ruralvirginian]

Oops - sorry Hanakoganei...that's what I get for not reading ALL the posts rather than the last 2-3 

OK - BEFORE Hanakoganei's tweaks the best arrow for the price was the Sarranid Black Arrow...

 

[Shadowjak101]

Hi there - the archery changes look good, but what really caught my eye was in your demo video you can order your troops to go to a certain spot by looking at it and setting a flag there.  How can I get that?! lol That's a function I really feel is sorely needed in my game currently.

 

[oh_no]

Spoiler: Shadowjak101

Select the group you want to order and hold F1.  The flag will appear, and after you release F1 the troops will move to your selected position.  It's part of Native.

Gromite Arrows are slightly stronger, come in a larger number, and are slightly cheaper than Sarranid Arrows.  I'll edit this post as I play.

Also, the Long Bow cannot be used on horseback.

 

[Michiko]

Yeah I suddenly noticed that I forgot to apply some of the horse-related flags. I'm fixing them now. Fixed, and updated the first post with the info.

I'm thinking of this kind of rebalance for the arrows as well. Let me know what you guys think. The arrows in the first post should now reflect these changes:

(If you don't want to try these out, just don't copy the entries regarding arrows and keep what we already had going).

Spoiler

Swadian:
Arrow Count: High
Damage: Average
Weight: Somewhat heavy

Swadian archers are based on English longbowmen, who weren't very mobile but were very effective as archers. I think making the arrow quivers relatively heavy (but not unreasonable) can help to promote keeping them in a stationary location to rain arrows down on their opponents.


Vaegir
Arrow Count: Average
Damage: High
Weight: Somewhat heavy

I imagine the Vaegir arrows to be made of denser wood, which is a luxury they can afford since their bows are relatively powerful. Because of the heavier arrows, they typically carry less.


Khergit
Arrow Count: Below Average
Damage: Low
Weight: Very Light

I think Khergit Archers should emphasize mobility. In case they get dismounted, they need to be able to maintain their mobile tactics or scamper off to find a horse and resume their original role. Also, in real life, the Mongolian horse archers the Khergits are based on actually only carried very few arrows.


Nord
Arrow Count: Average
Damage: Average
Weight: Average

The Nords aren't really known for their archery, but they're not bad at it when the role needs to be filled. I think we can keep them at a base average for everything, so that when you stick a few archers in a moving shield wall, they can actually do some damage.


Rhodok
Arrow Count: Average
Damage: High
Weight: Somewhat heavy

Crossbowmen. They seem to be well-balanced to me really, so I'm keeping them the way they are.


Sarranid
Arrow Count: High
Damage: Low
Weight: Very light

I don't want them to be just copies of the Khergit horse archers. I want to imagine the Sarranid warriors using very light arrows, to improve the mobility even of their footmen. The kind of wood available in desert regions is also very light. Looking at the models for the Sarranid and Desert Arrows, they seem to fit the idea. The Black Arrows are special though, as their tips look rather dangerous. I think the Black Arrows will be heavier and stronger, but you can also carry much less of them.

 

[spexau]

This looks really cool. As someone who uses archers and horse archers I might try this. Is it reversible once you install it?

EDIT: I just read the install instructions and yes you back up first so it would be reversible! My bad, I'll give it a go

 

[Michiko]

In my opinion though, the slower speeds don't really hurt your archery. You're still pretty deadly as long as you use the proper bows and arrows for your skill level. I think it's because it works also for the AI, so archery duels can be pretty interesting.

 

[Ephafn]

- Bow damage has been tweaked to reflect the supposed draw weight of the bow. Bows are generally more powerful. The lighter bows (up to Power Draw 2) only use cut damage. Power Draw 3 and up use piercing damage.

I haven't tested your tweaks as I am currently using version 1.143 (for the Workshop), but I have to say that I'm not a big fan of bows switching from Cutting to Piercing damage. My beef with it is that it tends to make to much of a difference in effectiveness between low-tier archers and high-tier archers. I would personally argue for all bows to be using cutting damage with increased damage values (to make them behave as differently as possible from crossbows). Or it could depend on factions (Nords, Sarranids, and Vaegirs: cutting; Swadians and Khergits: piercing). Sadly I don't think it is possible to make the actual ammunition (broad-head: cutting, bodkin: piercing) change the type, as that would probably be the cleanest way to do the differentiation.

By the way, does anyone know how the different damage types work versus armor? From module.ini:

# You can modify the damage system by editing the following values:
# The first three values determine the amount which will be directly subtracted from damage due to armor.
# The next three values determine the percentage reduction from the damage.

armor_soak_factor_against_cut       = 0.8
armor_soak_factor_against_pierce    = 0.65
armor_soak_factor_against_blunt     = 0.5

armor_reduction_factor_against_cut       = 1.0
armor_reduction_factor_against_pierce    = 0.5
armor_reduction_factor_against_blunt     = 0.75

I'm not sure how soak and reduction work together... Is damage = (attack - soak * armor) * reduction?

I'm asking as I actually made a spreadsheet with all of Floris archers and infantry, in a way to compare the effectiveness of the different archers. But then I realized I didn't knew how to get the armor contribution to the damage...

Edit: Found a link with the correct formula, from a dev: http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,26790.msg670028.html#msg670028

 

[Michiko]

Yeah I know what you mean. But I think at the same time, giving them piercing damage makes sense. The steel-tipped pointy arrows like bodkin tips, and a lot of the arrows we see in the game for that matter, were designed to puncture armor. In fact, the tip would leave often smaller wounds that a hardened warrior was likely to survive if it missed vital organs (kinda like bullet wounds from modern times) unless the wound got infected. But it will at least stop an armored knight, and that was the point, pun intended.

The big damage arrows were the barbed, flat/broad head arrows, etc., which did a poor job of penetrating armor but left such big wounds that trying to pull them out would often cause more damage to tissue. A battlefield surgeon was often called after the battle to pull out the wound properly, but it seemed like many troops would not survive a chest hit from one of these damaging weapons.

And yeah it's sad that we can't make it so that the damage type is connected to the arrow instead of the bow.

In real life, I would imagine there to be a huge difference between a bow with a light draw weight and a bow with a heavy one. You can ask anybody that practices any form of archery (not that I do, but I've been observing it). I've seen videos of people pulling those 100 lbf bows. It's not the toughest bow, and is lighter than the average war bow, but it looks really powerful. You can see the arrow's flight and impact. If it were tipped with bodkin or something, it can totally punch through an iron plate.

If you're lower tier troop, a young man that's only used to lightweight bows that you use to shoot rabbits and deer in the woods a few times a week to feed your village, suddenly recruited from your village and thrust into a military life with barely enough training because of the urgency of war, I think it's completely viable to think that their officers would set them up with bows that they know they can use, and train them in using heavier bows along the way. In the game, this translates into upgrading to a higher tier, which allows them to use a heavier bow.

Bottom line is that there should be a difference in effectiveness between low tier and high tier archers. In my opinion, the difference should be big, but it should also be that similar-tier troops can kill each other in one or two shots if they actually hit, which is certainly the case.

Besides, in reality, my tweaks have made it so that tier 2 archers can actually damage an unarmored opponent. I tested this by wearing light armors (total body armor of 24) and only two shots were enough to kill me without a headshot (headshot is fatal on the first shot).

 

[Ephafn]

I realize that pierce damage is much more realistic for bows than cut damage (especially when we are talking about bodkins). My argument for making them cut damage is mainly one of gameplay, as it increases the difference between bows and crossbows, by making the first devastating against lower level troops, while only the second is effective against higher level ones. But that difference is already partly satisfied by the fact that crossbows are slower with more powerful shots, so I'm fine either way.

My disagreement, for both gameplay and realism reasons, is against the decision of changing the damage type depending on the tier (I would be totally fine if the difference was based on either the type of arrows or on the faction). While I'm by no way a bow expert, I don't see a 100lbs bow being much different than a 120lbs one. The 120lbs bow will shoot arrows that will pierce armors that would block arrows shot from the 100lbs bow, but the same could be said of a 140lbs bow versus a 120lbs one, or a 300lbs crossbow versus a 250lbs one. And I find that these gradual differences are well represented by the armor system already, which is a simple subtraction (with some adjustments from the damage type) from what I would guess: a 25 damage bow will pierce 20 points of armor, while a 20 damage bow won't, but it will still be blocked by 25 points of armor.

As such, the difference in effectiveness between low tiers and high tiers can probably be fully modeled by giving higher tier troops more powerful bows and more power draw, allowing them to both damage highly armored opponents but also deal more damage to unarmored ones.