[ECS2] Discussions and Improvements

[Watly]

Let's get a few points straight:

- Arni didn't personally ban the guys in the ECS finals, the one who did has already been confirmed in certain circles of the Warband community. It can be argued that because it was a result of Arni's key-sharing schemes that Arni bears responsibility for his actions, but we're all intelligent enough to acknowledge this subtle difference on the other hand.

- @Fietta, no that was another group of trolls.

- I highly doubt that it was proven that Arni had cheated in every tournament he played in, considering how difficult it is to catch cheaters in general.

That said, ddos'ing servers out of rage is enough to permaban you from any serious community and its events, so I do not understand why this wouldn't apply to the Warband community.

I would also prefer it if people dropped this debate already, because this case is better off being discussed between the admins and the offender himself. Please hear him out personally is my request therefore.

 

[Tork789]

I'd also add to Watly's message to seriously consider giving him another chance. The last one though.

 

[Killfacer]

When I saw that im banned from ECS, I tried to contact AE admins and they told me that they would never ever let me play this game in any clan tournament, that they hate me and they ll make sure they ll never see me ingame. I even offered to pay real money as a refund for my ddos, but they laughed and told me it wouldnt help. I dont know what to do, I have a lot of friends in this game and I really want to play it, I was sure that 8 months ban during NC and ECS would be enough for them as a punishment but I guess it wasnt. Im the only player for all warband history who is banned for more than 1 tourney. A lot of people were caught cheating at different tournaments at different time, and none of them has been banned. Yet I got a lifetime sentence. I know I deserve a punishment but I really think it is just too much.

For you to come here to defend yourself and then just lie sums up who you are.

Which admin did you speak to that said they hate you? I want a name because I spoke to Rayden about you and said nothing of the sort. I even told him I figured you'd get unbanned eventually.

Who said it was a life time ban? Nobody. Frankly you've come into this thread and made up a load of ****. Great way to defend yourself.

 

[Watly]

there are many ppl who had been proven to have used hacks or have done something wrong in the past but they are still playing this game without any punishment...

please elaborate

Also, this.

Who said it was a life time ban?

The bans and suspension thread did? Oo

 

[Aeronwen]

I'd also add to Watly's message to seriously consider giving him another chance. The last one though.

I also think Arni should be given another chance, but not yet.  The amount of misbehaviour was so great that he should spend longer proving that he has understood why it was a mistake.  He should certainly be given the chance to make some reparations to the community should he be inclined to do so.

As I have said before, I do think the community should discuss some things.  Anyone who cannot read or understand the tournament rules or who thinks the admins should not follow their own rules probably isn't capable of constructive discussion though.

I would like to see separate threads on:
1. Tournaments should broadly follow the same rule set, this would be an aid to participants in all tournaments that did so.
2. Which, if any, mods should be allowed.  Only mods that have a public link need be discussed, clearly any mods that are not freely available should never be allowed.
3. Whether consequences of breaking rules should be a single stated punishment (eg 'banned from teh rest of the tournament') or a range from which the admins can select depending on their judgement about the infringement (eg 'banned for 1 or more matches up to and including a toounrmant ban depending on teh admins discretion').  The first can lead to over (or under) harsh consequences while the second leaves the admins open to charges of bias.

 

[Killfacer]

Well I didn't see that and I'm against it being a permanent ban. My position going forward, given how recent the DDoS was, that the ban would be lifted after the next WNL ends.

 

[Watly]

I agree with Aeronwen: those 3 topics are the most in need of discussion and most topics stray off-topic due to discussion about one of these 3 topics.

 

[Fietta]

I agree, he looks like he's changed. He's actually alright when I play with him.

 

[Tardet]

I agree with Aeronwen: those 3 topics are the most in need of discussion and most topics stray off-topic due to discussion about one of these 3 topics.

I wouldn't mind closing this topic, and let people opening three others. Just let me know.

 

[yourNotAlone]

I'm wondering if behaviour outside of tournaments but still in warband (e.g. banned multiple times on BG, trolling other mods, forum behaviour, etc..) should be taken into consideration when discussing tournament rules and consequences of rule breaking (as example banning a player from tournaments for racist remarks on the forums).

 

[Aeronwen]

I'm wondering if behaviour outside of tournaments but still in warband (e.g. banned multiple times on BG, trolling other mods, forum behaviour, etc..) should be taken into consideration when discussing tournament rules and consequences of rule breaking (as example banning a player from tournaments for racist remarks on the forums).

Consequences for rule breaking are intended to fulfil several functions, to ensure that a player and their team do not benefit from the rule break, to discourage rule breaking and in some cases to ensure admins do not have to continually deal with one player who will repeatedly break rules.

In the last case it is absolutely right to take into consideration the general behaviour of the player.  Anyone who shows a lack of respect for rules and for other players has shown that they are likely to re-offend.

One thing that should be remembered, especially by the more childish members of teh community who are inclined to try and argue 'fine points' of tournament rules, is that admins are not your parents or your teachers, they do not owe anyone their time.  When players 'discuss' the fine points of rules, they generally know what is right, what they want to establish is how much wrong can they get away with.  In those circumstances I see no reason why the admins should waste their time in such discussion and every reason why they should take such behaviour into account if that player is proved to be breaking a rule.

 

[LeRoux]

Im Arni and I got permamently banned for all clan tournaments for a lifetime by AE_Scar. I had been already banned for more than 6 months during NC and ECS period. and I deserved that ban. I have ddosed servers because of rage, I have played 1 match for a team that I wasnt part of during WNL simply because I thought it would be fun to, and I broke multiclanning rule, I have been very rude against many members in this community and I deserve their hate, have done many bad things, I ruined fun for a lot of players in this game and I am really sorry for it. I dont know what can I do to atone my bad actions.

When I saw that im banned from ECS, I tried to contact AE admins and they told me that they would never ever let me play this game in any clan tournament, that they hate me and they ll make sure they ll never see me ingame. I even offered to pay real money as a refund for my ddos, but they laughed and told me it wouldnt help. I dont know what to do, I have a lot of friends in this game and I really want to play it, I was sure that 8 months ban during NC and ECS would be enough for them as a punishment but I guess it wasnt. Im the only player for all warband history who is banned for more than 1 tourney. A lot of people were caught cheating at different tournaments at different time, and none of them has been banned. Yet I got a lifetime sentence. I know I deserve a punishment but I really think it is just too much.

Deacon says that I "cheated in every tournament he played in" but I can only say this about WNL4, when I played 1 match for Wanderers in 1st week, I have never cheated before and im not going to in the future. You cant name any other tournament for all my 5 years of playing that i cheated in. Yes I have trolled and insulted many people on IG BG and I have many keys banned from there, but many AE members are banned from IG BG too and ban from IG BG has never been a reason enough to ban from actual clan tournaments. I have nothing to do with "screwing important ECS finals", I think it was already proven that time. if it was me, then I d be banned back then. But it wasnt. Galahad also states as one of the reasons of my ban 'trolling on forums'. Seriously? Yet again, let me repeat, I do agree that I damaged this community a lot and I totally deserve punishment and ban. But I think the only things that were banworthy were cheating in WNL4 and DDosing servers. I couldnt play with my friends for 8 months during 2 tournaments, now from what I read, Deacon wants to ban me for another 6 months or maybe even more. You all write what a bad person I am and that 8 months werent enough to change but if I didnt want to change and if I kept damagint the community, I would just keep ddosing servers and trying to sneak into tournaments with a different keys. I could ddos servers for as much time as I want to. But I didnt, it would be stupid, pathetic and do no good, I understand it now, I just want another chance, I want to play under my real nickname, I dont want to hide and break rules anymore, just please let me play again.

Secretly I am in control of all this, so you can stop blaming AE and Scar for all of this.

Seriously what the **** is up with "AE admins" and bashing individuals for decisions made where obviously multiple people are responsible.

 

[Kragen]

Im Arni and I got permamently banned for all clan tournaments for a lifetime by AE_Scar. I had been already banned for more than 6 months during NC and ECS period. and I deserved that ban. I have ddosed servers because of rage, I have played 1 match for a team that I wasnt part of during WNL simply because I thought it would be fun to, and I broke multiclanning rule, I have been very rude against many members in this community and I deserve their hate, have done many bad things, I ruined fun for a lot of players in this game and I am really sorry for it. I dont know what can I do to atone my bad actions.

When I saw that im banned from ECS, I tried to contact AE admins and they told me that they would never ever let me play this game in any clan tournament, that they hate me and they ll make sure they ll never see me ingame. I even offered to pay real money as a refund for my ddos, but they laughed and told me it wouldnt help. I dont know what to do, I have a lot of friends in this game and I really want to play it, I was sure that 8 months ban during NC and ECS would be enough for them as a punishment but I guess it wasnt. Im the only player for all warband history who is banned for more than 1 tourney. A lot of people were caught cheating at different tournaments at different time, and none of them has been banned. Yet I got a lifetime sentence. I know I deserve a punishment but I really think it is just too much.

Deacon says that I "cheated in every tournament he played in" but I can only say this about WNL4, when I played 1 match for Wanderers in 1st week, I have never cheated before and im not going to in the future. You cant name any other tournament for all my 5 years of playing that i cheated in. Yes I have trolled and insulted many people on IG BG and I have many keys banned from there, but many AE members are banned from IG BG too and ban from IG BG has never been a reason enough to ban from actual clan tournaments. I have nothing to do with "screwing important ECS finals", I think it was already proven that time. if it was me, then I d be banned back then. But it wasnt. Galahad also states as one of the reasons of my ban 'trolling on forums'. Seriously? Yet again, let me repeat, I do agree that I damaged this community a lot and I totally deserve punishment and ban. But I think the only things that were banworthy were cheating in WNL4 and DDosing servers. I couldnt play with my friends for 8 months during 2 tournaments, now from what I read, Deacon wants to ban me for another 6 months or maybe even more. You all write what a bad person I am and that 8 months werent enough to change but if I didnt want to change and if I kept damagint the community, I would just keep ddosing servers and trying to sneak into tournaments with a different keys. I could ddos servers for as much time as I want to. But I didnt, it would be stupid, pathetic and do no good, I understand it now, I just want another chance, I want to play under my real nickname, I dont want to hide and break rules anymore, just please let me play again.

Secretly I am in control of all this.

Have a heart and let him play then

 

[theDonut]

One thing that should be remembered, especially by the more childish members of teh community who are inclined to try and argue 'fine points' of tournament rules, is that admins are not your parents or your teachers, they do not owe anyone their time.

Who are those "childish" people? Why are they childish, because they are trying to make things fairer for everyone? Regardless you should abstain from using those kind of offensive calificatives, this is a serious discussion, not a regular forum drama.
The "they do not owe you time" argument used to justify ignoring legit complaints is absurd. If they're decent admins they'll spend some time trying to figure out solutions instead of avoiding conflict and not trying to fix stuff that's broken.

 

[Darth Light]

What is "to ban player from a tournament"  while he is always able to find another key to play warband? There is no way to identify a human being playing warband, specially when this being is hiding from "authorities", and even if there was such way, none would really spend time to do that.
In this case, Arni's willing to play in top clans (actually KURWA), but they dont let him in cause of ban. So, the only reason for him to seek this unban is a desire to play in a top clan and participate in tournaments.
Imagine the situation when Arni got unbanned and eventually he went inadequate again, doing crazy things like ddos and bans. In such situation the clan which accepted him and was voting for his unban as well should be punished too, in most severe form (like KURWA this year ).
What I mean is that if KURWA is ready to take responsibility for his actions, he can surely be unbanned. In worst scenario all KURWA will be banned for his "new actions" (Just joking )

 

[Aeronwen]

One thing that should be remembered, especially by the more childish members of teh community who are inclined to try and argue 'fine points' of tournament rules, is that admins are not your parents or your teachers, they do not owe anyone their time.

Who are those "childish" people? Why are they childish, because they are trying to make things fairer for everyone? Regardless you should abstain from using those kind of offensive calificatives, this is a serious discussion, not a regular forum drama.
The "they do not owe you time" argument used to justify ignoring legit complaints is absurd. If they're decent admins they'll spend some time trying to figure out solutions instead of avoiding conflict and not trying to fix stuff that's broken.

You are right in that what I said was very badly phrased and I apologise for that. Yes it is childish behaviour when some people talk as though they do not have responsibility for their own actions and that the admins are responsible for everything, it is childish behaviour to sit back and complain without fully considering whether there were any other viable options and is it childish behaviour to expect someone else to voluntarily give up all their time to construct a fun time for other players while they do nothing to help and even in some cases actually intentionally hinder.  However when the behaviour is childish that does not mean the person is childish and I should not have phrased it that way.  Also I do keep forgetting that some, possibly many, players in this community are in fact children (though many of those can be shining examples of mature and pleasant behaviour).

The admins spend a lot of time trying to make things fair for everyone.  Players who bash the admins because their friend/teammate was banned according to the rules are not trying to make things fairer for anyone, they are trying to get the rules changed for one particular person.  I do not believe any admin has ignored a 'legit complaint'.  In fact everything has been very comprehensively discussed.  People making the same point over and over when it has already been answered have been ignored.

I missed this...

Im Arni and I got permamently banned for all clan tournaments for a lifetime by AE_Scar. I had been already banned for more than 6 months during NC and ECS period. and I deserved that ban. I have ddosed servers because of rage, I have played 1 match for a team that I wasnt part of during WNL simply because I thought it would be fun to, and I broke multiclanning rule, I have been very rude against many members in this community and I deserve their hate, have done many bad things, I ruined fun for a lot of players in this game and I am really sorry for it. I dont know what can I do to atone my bad actions.

Just because one admin makes the post does not mean they are acting unilaterally.  I fully support, and almost certainly agreed to beforehand, any post made by Scar or any other admin in their capacity as admin. 

I assume the word 'hate' here is a translation issue but none the less it is a very strong and inappropriate word.  No admin that I have talked to has said that they 'hate' anyone.  The issue is simply that someone who repeatedly breaks rules, disrupts tournaments and exhibits continual bad behaviour is not welcome.  Someone who repeatedly cheats and lies is not going to be trusted again easily.  Refraining from ddosing and lying about who you are in tournaments is not evidence of good behaviour, that is simply normally expected behaviour.  Good behaviour at this point requires something more.

 

[captain lust]

I agree, he looks like he's changed. He's actually alright when I play with him.

This is not an argument. Someone being ok some of the time does not negate the actual actions they have taken. Please stop with this line of defense because you've offered multiple posts of this nonsense now.

If you weren't around when Arni was attacking the community and your personal opinion of him is unaffected by it, fine but that does make you unqualified to have a reasonable part in this discussion.

 

[Gibby Jr]

I wasn't around when Arni was doing all the things that he was, I've only encountered him a few times and I've got to say that when I did, he wasn't a 'changed person'. I never knew what he was like before, or what he's meant to be like now according to many of the people saying he's changed, but the most memorable moment I saw him was in the 3v3 tournament in the match between Let Arni Play and The Ninja Turtles. I wasn't there for the whole match, but I was there while they were trying to get the match going, and I remember Arni refusing to change to the allocated server for some reason. Specimen had been told to admin the match (or so he claimed, that Cleric had appointed him to do so), and Arni refused to listen to Specimen, even going so far as to insult him as best he could with his English knowledge. This was only a month ago, and I don't see one month making a huge difference, but the Arni I saw there was refusing to play on the correct server and refusing to listen to the admins as well as insulting them and the opposing team.

 

[Razer]

How old are you to Ddos a server, when you're angry?

 

[KoA John]

How old are you to Ddos a server, when you're angry?

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