Camera Effects

[Lancer2D]

First of all, I'd like to say hi!  I've been watching this forum off and on since v0.632, which I discovered at the HOTU last June.  The name Lancer2D comes from an old RTS game called Warzone 2100, so it has nothing to do with my weapon preference or Mitsubishi. >_>

Okay, that's enough of an introduction for now, lets get on with the suggestion.

Camera Effects

The Problem
Please, picture this scene in your head:

You are riding your horse over the vast rolling plains of Calradia, tinged golden orange by the hastily receding sun.  The pink horizon delivers the final beams of light over the darkening mountain range in the distance.  Long grass glitters with dew, filling the air with a thick, cool scent that satisfies your lungs each time you inhale.  The power of the galloping beast under you combined with your still-warm armor protects you from the harsh yet beautiful environment flowing into your hemlet, filling you with energy.

In your hand you feel cool steel thirsting for warm blood.  With each pounding hoofbeat, a helpless victim draws nearer.  You can taste his terror in your throat as you raise your sword, taking a deep breath.  "One, two, three..."  You count off each group of steps in your mind as you close in.  On the count of five you tense every muscle in your body as you release the air in your lungs and swing your sword simultaneously, using all the energy in your body in one brief moment.  As your weapon reaches out to the side, you feel it make contact with thick flesh.  It takes all of your strength to keep yourself mounted and your weapon in hand.

Instantly, your energy is replenished as you feel a scream reverberate through your helmet.  A drip warm blood falls to your hand and instantly cools in the wind.  The final rays of sunlight make your blade shine a deep red as you examine it with satisfaction.

Okay, now keep that scene in mind while I ask the following questions.  As your horse flew over the plains, did you feel each powerful leap?  When your blade struck did you feel the hard contact pull you back?  If you were imagining that scene as a battle in Mount & Blade you sure didn't.

The Solution
A great way to express the raw power of battle is with various camera effects.

Mounted:

• As your horse gains speed, the camera should gently bounce with the horse's gallop.  This will make horses feel much more powerful.
• Once your horse reaches a certain speed, the camera should begin to slide away from your character.  This will greatly improve sense of speed.
• When you strike an enemy at a certain speed the camera should quickly jerk back and maybe gently yaw into the swing as well.  This will make killing even more fun than it already is.
• When making sharp turns the camera should roll slightly into the turn and drop very slightly.  This will make turning at high speeds feel nice and sharp.
• When aiming an arrow or couching a lance, these effects should be temporarily reduced or removed to keep them from hindering gameplay.

Both mounted and on foot:

• When struck by anything the camera should be jarred accordingly with the blow.  Headshots should cause the same effect, but with more force.  This will make people take blows seriously.
• When a large group of horses are galloping within a certain range, the camera should rumble gently.  This will just be plain awesome. <_<
• Players should have the option of turning these camera effects off in the options menu.  I wouldn't doubt that this would cause motion sickness in a few people.

The Conclusion
Mount & Blade is great fun, but it is still lacking in immersion.  These camera effects should add a lot to immersion while doing little to no damage to framerates.
If you still don't think this suggestion is totally awesome, then I suggest you grab a fresh pair of underpants and try to open Mount & Blade and your imagination at the same time.

 

[calandale]

Just imagining it started to make me feel ill.

 

[Merentha]

I really don't need my camera moving in combat, especially since I use the inverted mouse movement for weapon control.  I need to see where I am facing to swing, and my camera moves all the time while fighting.  However, the camera zooming out slightly while at high speed might be worth considering, but it seems a very superficial change.

 

[Paradukes]

I love the idea (As long as it's strictly optional). It's age-old, but always effective. Anyone here remember the first Command an Conquer game? Whenever a really important building or vehicle (Generaly the big ones like a refinery or a construction yard) is destroyed, the screen shakes like crazy and the speakers give off a massive blast. Me and the friend I played it with used to love counting down do the harvester's iminent destruction;

Me: "She's gonna blow"

Him: "Three-Two-One"

Computer *KABOOOM*

Us: "W00T"

Come to think of it, this was used even back when DOS games were popular. In God of Thunder, whenever the player uses his thunderstom skill, the entire screen shakes for a second.

In short, I agree.

 

[Lancer2D]

I really don't need my camera moving in combat, especially since I use the inverted mouse movement for weapon control.  I need to see where I am facing to swing, and my camera moves all the time while fighting.  However, the camera zooming out slightly while at high speed might be worth considering, but it seems a very superficial change.

The effects don't have to be strong at all.  Even a movement of 3 to 6 pixels or a few degrees of rotation would provide a noticeable effect without being a distraction.

 

[Volkier]

Most of these are based on 3rd person perspective.. You are forgetting, that the majority of the users use 1st person (according the the old poll that was done a year back or so)

And it may be a little over-kill for some people - although I know what you mean. Inevitably, I personally think that the implimenting more realistic details to horse and human physics would increase the feel a lot more than the graphics themselves. A lot of this 'feel' also comes from the art of role-playing well.. (if you remember, people used to roleplay with dice, pen and paper, and get so much feel they literally lived their character in reality - without any monitor, let alone fancy effects..

So maybe it would be nice, but like I said, I would personally get a lot more feel out of a more realistic physical detail, (which is not ridiculously over-exhadurated, ie. you can still control your character with a computer keyboard and mouse effectively - and not need a brain implant, 5 hands and other parts of your body wired to the computer - as some people have suggested before ::\ )

Perhaps I would agree though that possibly towards the end of the development process, a little addition to certain minor effects would be good :

 

[eric virgo]

I do my own camera effects. I play first person and everything feels awesome.

I manage to get some "acting" in the game too. Sometimes I kill an enemy while moving my mouse to the direction of the blade, thus turning my back to the opponent as he collapses dead.

I don't even look back. Just proceed to the next kill.
IT MAKES ME FEEL COOL RITE?

Sometimes when I see enemies in a deep river, I draw my weapon over my head (prepare for an overhead) and jump screaming into the melee. Just as I land I let the sword go and cut the enemy in half (in my mind)

We don't need no camera effects!

 

[Kastor]

i would have to agree completely with Paradukes so long as the camera effects were optional...
i reckon id use it even if it was a bit distracting just for the "immersion"

what about motion blur?

 

[Marth]

I like the camera jarr idea, i play in 1st person too and that'd be cool.

 

[Tralfaz]

I enjoy it "as is", never really cared about(or felt) "immersed" in a game like that.  If some are, fine, but its not my thing at all.

 

[Lancer2D]

Most of these are based on 3rd person perspective.. You are forgetting, that the majority of the users use 1st person (according the the old poll that was done a year back or so)

All of the effects that I mentioned would work fine in first person mode with the exception of the first two.  The camera already bounces around with the character's head in the animation and the second suggestion just plain doesn't make sense for first person.

Inevitably, I personally think that the implimenting more realistic details to horse and human physics would increase the feel a lot more than the graphics themselves.

Of course, but this works as kind of a "quick fix" except that instead of being scrapped when more advanced solutions are developed, they can coexist and compliment each other.

A lot of this 'feel' also comes from the art of role-playing well.. (if you remember, people used to roleplay with dice, pen and paper, and get so much feel they literally lived their character in reality - without any monitor, let alone fancy effects..

That's what fancy graphics are for (also for selling crappy games to casual gamers, but that has nothing to do with M&B ), aren't they?  I would believe that those with such an active imagination are dwindling.  It probably has something to do with TV taking the place of books.  Then again, I have an easy time becoming immersed in a good book, but not in most games. (Note to self: play more text adventures, they kick ass.)  Maybe doing part of the work for the player takes away from immersion rather than adding to it.  This is an interesting thought, maybe I should start a new thread about it. >_>

Perhaps I would agree though that possibly towards the end of the development process, a little addition to certain minor effects would be good :

This is completely up to Armagan and the rest of the team.  It's hard to predict what Armagan would choose, since he seems to put most of his work into the gameplay at this point, but he still adds cool yet unnecessary (I don't mean unnecessary in a negative way.) things like grass, voice acting, and other general sound tweaks.

 

[calandale]

Most of these are based on 3rd person perspective.. You are forgetting, that the majority of the users use 1st person (according the the old poll that was done a year back or so)

Gee, I would only be interested in it, if I played first person.

 

[Tralfaz]

1. I cant RP worth a damn, cant in fact, as if Im around RPers for more than a few minutes, it actually makes me physically ill(headache, "twitchy" stomach, inability to concentrate...). 
2. I dont really play one more than the other, view-wise, though if theres a fair amount of trees, Ill switch to first person, to make it easier to see when Im in close to trees(leaves block view in 3rd person).

 

[Volkier]

I do my own camera effects. I play first person and everything feels awesome.

I manage to get some "acting" in the game too. Sometimes I kill an enemy while moving my mouse to the direction of the blade, thus turning my back to the opponent as he collapses dead.

I don't even look back. Just proceed to the next kill.
IT MAKES ME FEEL COOL RITE?

Sometimes when I see enemies in a deep river, I draw my weapon over my head (prepare for an overhead) and jump screaming into the melee. Just as I land I let the sword go and cut the enemy in half (in my mind)

We don't need no camera effects!

Actually, turning your body with the swing, improves the overal damage, since you get a +XX% speed bonus to the swing :
I do it 100% all the time - and it does feel good heh

 

[TheMany]

Not only that, but you can hit your target little bit quicker too. I can't stand 1st person view.

 

[Tralfaz]

O_O  Wait till youve got 3-4 enemies around you that you cant see because trees are in the way(leaves I mean).  Thats the main reason I use 1st person from time to time.

 

[Raz]

The game is meant to be played in 3rd person, and I really love this idea! It'd be awesome to see this along with motion blur and better animations. Weird that an idea like this hasn't suggested before.

 

[eric virgo]

"""The game is meant to be played in 3rd person,"""

What?
No. Why?
Third person ruins the immersion for me.
I am never afraid or exited when I play third person.
Because the enemies are trying to kill that lil guy on the screen.
NOT ME!

I am trying to keep HIM out of trouble when I play in third person. I just move him around. I don't see what he sees. I see everything. I CHEAT!

But in first person the thing changes. The enemies are on me. The arrows, the enemy blows, the horses are all THERE! I can see the sword I am holding. I am there in the midst of battle.
Seriously I played third person once or twice and I felt so distant and relaxed.
It was the most boring experience I ever had in my life.

I hate most games that are third person because of this thing. Mount and Blade is awesome in first person. More difficult, more challenging, more alive!

 

[Tralfaz]

I think maybe your helmets on a little tight...   Me, I dont really get "immersed" in a game, hell not even with Doom3(demo), which was supposed to be "really scary" PFFFT! It didnt turn out that way at all.  In fact, the ONLY game that ever made me startled enough to actually jump back was FEAR(again, the demo).  Dunno why, but it did it 3-4 times(Im thinking there a subliminal aspect   ).other than that, nothing in any 1st person games(1st was Wolf 3D), and I neither expect, nor "need" it.  If this game WAS "meant to be played in 3rd person",  1st person wouldnt be an option.

 

[Raz]

Why is 3rd person view set as a standard then? Why are all of the screenshots in 3rd person view then? Why do the player's armours look so terrible in 1st person view then? Sure, it's meant to be played as 3rd and 1st, but initially 3rd.