Broadsword problems

[Damien]

Well, whether it's a "fake" sword or a real sword, it's still basically a sword - otherwise, what are you going to call it?

Exactly.


Although the more arrogant, petty of sword enthusiasts LIBERALLY use the term SLO (Sword-Like Object).

 

[Feanaro]

Well, whether it's a "fake" sword or a real sword, it's still basically a sword - otherwise, what are you going to call it?

That was one of the points I had to concede when a friend and I had a long, involved argument about what constitutes a "real" sword. We came to an impasse somewhere around there. I've still not formed a concrete opinion.

 

[Blackthorn]

or neither? Haha, just because it's blunt and meant for display doesn't mean it isn't a sword.

I've never heard of an original sword that was not sharp. They may have had blunted practice swords but the "real thing" was sharp. It all comes down to what a "real" sword is. And it isn't a shape, me thinks. Else a large hunk of cheese in the shape of a sword is, in fact, a real sword. To me, a blunt sword is not a sword. It is a 3 foot crowbar.

I admit what a sword is is an interesting debate.
If this were true, no blunt sword is a sword? In which case, a real sword, taken, and blunted, is not a sword? And magically, when a new edge is ground back, (naturally not as sharp, but still), it becomes a sword somewhere there?

I'd class the weapons I own as swords, despite the fact they are blunt. They are made of hard-wearing steel, two produced by skilled smiths (Paul Binn, anyone?) and have a full tang and beautifully balanced fittings. The fact they don't have an edge is a mere detail. Does a blank-firing gun lose it's status as a gun?

 

[Destichado]

And what about sparring swords, that mimmic the weight and feel of a real sword but don't look even remotely like the weapons they simulate?

I've always pointed straight at Africa in this debate.  Their weapons break ALL the rules.  ALL of them.  About what they should look like, how they should be made, what traits are desirable... half the time you take a sword (one that was actually used!) and set it down on a table next to another sword, someone who doesn't know what's up would admire the european sword, then look at the african thing and say "What's that, a plate? Modern art maybe?" 
So if the term "sword" encompases anything that comes out of Africa, I say it covers our wallhangers.

 

[brasidus]

Heh,
Yup.
When did swords become swords?
Early bronze ones bent and did not keep an edge,
Not all swords were Andrea Ferrara blades. I have held several original pre-1700s blades that were one step away from Cost Plus pot metal.
Its good to remember that while we have in our minds a preset concept of a "good sword" that just like guns today there is a wide disparity in quality for contemporary blades.

 

[Tarrak]

Ok... let's get back on the topic a little again. Well, at least for what I want to say (yeah I want some attention).

I have taken this picture directly from myarmoury's site on Type XIV swords.

That is very much like the Broadsword of the game. It is less pointed than regular Type XIV swords, but still has a tapering towards the point like 'our' broardsword. I would even go so far to say that this isn't a XIV, but more of a XIVa (which I haven't heard of though, just made it up). So the ingame sword seems to have at least some historical basis, though of course not the name.

 

[Destichado]

It would be so sweet if the ingame broadsword actually looked like that. 

 

[Tarrak]

It would be so sweet if the ingame broadsword actually looked like that. 

Yes, that specimen is a particularly nice one. It hasn't got the style I like to be honest, but it does look like it can be deadly without all that flashy stuff some swords came to have.

 

[Damien]

brasidus, while I don't disagree with your overall point, I think your supporting statements were a bit. . . unsupportive.

The ability to -maintain- an edge over a long period of time is not intrinsic to a sword. Rather, it's ability to -take- an edge is. Bronze could do that. Likewise, the structural integrity of a sword is not intrinsic either, or swords even in the early medieval period would not class, as they had a strong tendency to warp and bend with use.

That is very much like the Broadsword of the game. It is less pointed than regular Type XIV swords, but still has a tapering towards the point like 'our' broardsword. I would even go so far to say that this isn't a XIV, but more of a XIVa (which I haven't heard of though, just made it up). So the ingame sword seems to have at least some historical basis, though of course not the name.

There are some serious disparities, however, that keep this comparison from ringing anywhere close to truth.

The broadsword (I use this term to refer to the M&B item only) has some issues. The foremost is its size. This is a truth of all the vanilla M&B swords. Honestly, I think Armagan should consider bringing Raptor on to design the game's swords. He has a much better grasp of size and proportions. All of the Vanilla swords are obscenely large.

The second issue is the hilt. The hilt gives the sword a very 'fantasy' look. It could vaguely be said to resemble, in basic shape, a Celtic style. But even if we accept that - it also has an especially long grip. The sword, while one-handed, has a grip clearly long enough for two hands. This throws the proportions of the weapon totally off.

As a matter of fact, I'd say it more closely resembles, overall, a Type XIII. Even so - the overall fantasy style of the weapon precludes it from really being easily compared with any historical weapon, directly.

It would be so sweet if the ingame broadsword actually looked like that. 

Yes, yes it would. It would be sweet, overall, if the weapons in the game looked a little more. . .right.

 

[brasidus]

brasidus, while I don't disagree with your overall point, I think your supporting statements were a bit. . . unsupportive.

The ability to -maintain- an edge over a long period of time is not intrinsic to a sword. Rather, it's ability to -take- an edge is. Bronze could do that. Likewise, the structural integrity of a sword is not intrinsic either, or swords even in the early medieval period would not class, as they had a strong tendency to warp and bend with use.

Actually that was my very point, if worded poorly. If we went by many of the preconcieved ideas of what classifies as a sword we would discard a great many blades.