Wow lol.
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Bannerlord is really just a broken game.
- Thread starter GeminiTiger
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Wow lol.
Philozoraptor
Sergeant
This thread should be pinned because it summarizes everything wrong with the game. Devs should simply use it as a list of things to fix / remove / add.
Ulfhedinn_
Sergeant at Arms
I doubt they care enough at this point - they consider it basically done. Im subscribed to Bannerlord (even tho I dont play it) on Reddit and its pretty telling that it does have a large amount of people who are very pleased with the game. At first I was boggled thinking they were some brain dead masses - but after reading their points of view it basically comes down to people who this is their first first exposure to a game like this -so its very similar to those of us whose first exposure was the original Mount and Blade. That game felt amazing at the time as it was the only game that had a decent directional blocking with acurate hitboxes that took things like move/direction speed inertia into the calculation of attacks. Add to that Horsemen, Sieges, and the large amount of AI who could handle such calculations. Thats what hooked and enamored so many of us, but eventually created an audience and modding community who after a while -saw this as a great launching pad for a fully fleshed out game (RPG and strategy wise).
We seen the great overhaul mods that attempted to do just that and expected the devs were on the same page as us -but they werent. They did want an overhaul on the visual and animation system and imo, succeeded pretty well on that front but as far as the rest of the other features we all thought were going to be advanced as well - well Atlas merely shrugged and they saw the financial advantage of multi-platform as a primary driving and limiting force. They were satisfied with a "sprinkling of Strategy features" and the new fanbase they could now garner based off of the hype of the original fanbase- they got themselves a new fanbase that admire this game as the cat's meow - much like we did for M&B/Warband. The newer fanbase see the original fanbase as a bunch of cranky old whiners who just want to complain and are missing out on a great game not realizing that we are fully aware of its faults and strengths on a deeper level but more importantly -its wasted potential.
SadMoney
Regular
I think the main reason why so many people appear to be pleased with Bannerlord is the fact that the game does a fantastic job of tricking you into thinking it's way better than it actually is. I've played many games in my life, Warband included, and even I was successfully fooled by Bannerlord. Allow me to explain.
In the overwhelming majority of games features exist for a reason: to provide mechanical complexity, to balance some aspects, to increase immersion, etc. Bannerlord is not like this. It's a giant collection of worthless, barely working crap that exists for zero reason whatsoever.
"Wow, you can marry and have kids! Surely the game is designed around multi-generational play. Maybe not like CK2/3, but this system undoubtedly does at least something, right?"
"There are character traits! You can be a merciful lord or a devious rogue! Surely this means that characters with different traits behave differently and there are some unique interactions based on their personality, right?"
"You can own fiefs, this is so cool! I cannot wait to develop them into prosperous production, cultural or research centers! Surely towns and castles are more than just places to store your troops, right?"
"It looks like there's more than just waging war all the time, you can become a peaceful trader or a cunning rogue! Surely this means that these playstyles actually have any depth and provide you with unique opportunities?"
"The economy seems to be simulated to some degree! I cannot wait to wage economic war on my enemies and dominate them financially! Surely you can do this, right?"
As you play, you continue to encounter new mechanics and features like in these examples and you automatically assume that they actually mean something. Why would developers include them otherwise, right? Not only that, but you've played other games with similar features before, and most of the time these mechanics are implemented with at least some level of competence.
So you keep playing, but then it strikes you. The emperor has no clothes. Bannerlord is just a mess of useless crap that doesn't do anything. There majority of system within the game look like they are doing something, but in reality they could be removed in the next patch and the game would be largely unaffected.
Combine all this with the fact that Bannerlord is very grindy, especially for new players. Everything takes forever: grinding renown, money, skills, etc, so you need to invest a sizable chunk of your time until you fully realize how empty and hollow this game is.
I bet that the overwhelming majority of people posting positive reviews on Steam and Reddit are not stupid, they just haven't reached this moment of clarity yet.
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Well im basically saying the same thing - its just gonna take the newcomer much longer to stop being just wowed by the combat and other positives ive already listed above and actually start to realize that there are no deep play mechanics. Or they might get enough enjoyment out of just the battles, figured they got their 200+ hours of enjoyment and dont really care that theres nothing else or a long term/end game strategy goal. So the old'heads already know of the combat engine so we are looking at "Whats new" immediately but it still takes a while to realize "hey wait a second -this is actually LESS of a skeletal system than Warband !!".
Speaking for myself personally, it was the dev blogs and the assumed thinking that the Devs were on the same page with at least SOME of the 7000+ page wishlist, that when I first bought BL day 1 -I assumed it would take me a while to discover the new mechanics and/or they would be incoming as we were still in early access. Early Access is now something I see as a potential ploy by Devs to lull an expecting audience into "possibly incoming.." when they themselves have little to zero intention of developing an expected/hinted out or outright promised feature any further. I was still White Knighting this game until I saw extremely reasonable requests that would significantly improve/expand QoL feature (with minor effort) promptly and outright denied by the Committee of Nay when approached by forum representing well meaning Devs.
So again - yeah ive seen a few of those newer fanbase start to get the glazed over the eye defeated understanding and warning their joyful brethren -"yeah, its pretty fun until you get to mid game and realize battles dont matter and the AI just cheat grinds you forever.." - only to fall on mostly deaf ears.
Nowhere is this more apparent than the myriad of official reviews for this game where it starts with "in Bannerlord you can do anything or be anyone, from trader to evil warlord to righteous knight" and I'm like 那个 what? Did you play the effing game for two seconds? Bannerlord doesn't even try to suggest more options than world conquest at any point, let alone the first 3 hours which is all game journos play anyway.
This is why i don't like the idea of them adding more "content" or "mechanicsy to Bannerlord. They should be removing stuff instead. Perks, influence, clan tiers, even the whole way levelling works, they all have to go if the MnB formula is to be saved. The more stuff they add, the more it's going to cannibalise The core of the game which is the battles.
MariusTitus
Regular
I agree wholeheartedly. More than often when you see positive reviews on games that aren't that worth of a positive review, it's because of "newcomer" people that started playing games only while ago, thus they're under the wow effect of everything. If someone's first game they pick is Far Cry 6, they'll be amazed to smithereens how great it is, but everyone who played previous Fat Cries knows it ain't worth a damn and doesn't hold a candle to ones that came before. I'm sure Butterlord's massive battles have a great impact on someone who's never seen it before, leaving them breathless, thinking "wow this is the best game ever".
MariusTitus
Regular
...we should work harder and listen to our community?
I wish I had BL as my first experience into this vs the original MB years ago - it's definitely better looking at it as a newcomer. But this is its second iteration (or ~5th one technically - accounting DLC knowledge) after now nearing 15 years yet it took as many steps back as it did with the mechanics that many years ago; and whatever else they may have gleaned from similar genre-setting studios that (TW practically pioneered) cropped up in that time.
Someone on reddit summarized it quite well recently:
Someone on reddit summarized it quite well recently:
I don't think it's the game you hate, but rather the under-utilization of it's vast potential.
Bannerlord could be so, so much more, and yes it is a fun game that you can pour hundreds of hours into, a game that is definitely worth your money, The thing is by the end, you fall more in love with your imagination of what the game could be, rather then the game itself.
It pisses me off too, at how incompetent tale worlds is, because Bannerlord just has so much massive caliber that just has not been utilized.
Thats true. But BL certainly does not work properly as the game it is either. There are mechanics which contradict each other, huge balancing issues und grind which stand in the way of it being an enjoyable game.
If it was just the missed potential, only us WB players would really hate it, because TW missed their chance of making a great game. But in fact a lot of newcomers hate BL as well, for the simple fact that it doesn't quite work.
Do you think that voicing criticism is harassment?
Goyyyio
Sergeant
"Whatever we sold the copies and we have money to make another half arsed game that modders can finish for us, let's go eat some Turkish delights and dancing"
Bonus Content, Chat GPT interpretation of what they would answer to this thread is hilarious:
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Goyyyio
Sergeant
Pretty much these. Is hilarious that dudes that have spent 1200 hours in the game end up making rants about the game in Reddit. I found at least 4 in the last month and that is saying a lot. People are realising that a half of the playthroughs were spent either travelling or waiting, and the other half was repetitive combat.
For many too, it's having to restart a new game with each 'decent' patch that's been released since EA. All my playthroughs have maybe only ~50 hrs in on average before I hit the same issues with late-game or can't tolerate/frustrated with features yet unfixed/poor state.
To only look at mods to fix that, but knowing some random patch (as we know **** all when one comes) will most likely break that playthrough anyways so I got to wait for the game to be completed before exploring those thoroughly.
Come here, same non-info 'community update' from TW, same gameplay issues, same lack of QoL, same lack of development in certain features, same 'release plans' from over a year ago.
Game is far from complete; even to what they envisioned. Either TW steps up and admit that state (no company would ever), or they string us along with these lackluster patches until that x.X.x patch comes along - adding some things but still not addressing the other 80% issues. Only to retreat back into silence for the next 6 months again.
Goyyyio
Sergeant
I geniuenly hope they shut out mouths in our next patch but I've been saying this for too much time now and I don't think my mouth has been shutted. At least half the problems we had at the begining of the EA, that we've been VERY vocal about, are still present
Philozoraptor
Sergeant
Lack of any other similiar game to drive competition helps TW a lot as well. There is actually similiar situation with Total War and Paradox games, there is nothing similiar so they can get away with patches that break the games for months and add half baked features (partly by patch, partly by DLC).
I too have been waiting 3+ years. We've waited months between in EA for patches that were lackluster - will be no different with this one whenever it comes unfortunately.
Maybe we could try harder?
Mexxico was the last dev who genuinely seemed to care about doing quality work and interacting with the community too. When he left my hope for anything better from Taleworlds was gone.
