0.95x NPC Stats and Interaction

bravesirknight said:

Don't like the system really, it amounts to having to take prepackaged groups because they are all such evil SOBs they will screw you over otherwise. It would be better if there were actual ways to appease situations, duels with people who leave, and more fun about it. It's funny when you first see their conversations but pretty soon you realize pretty much every "conflict" that comes up is just screwing up your group even more.

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So don't take a group with conflicts. This ain't Neverwinter Nights.


Question - is the NPC's who leave random or specific? Say you have Rolf and Bunduck, will it always be Rolf who leaves if you ignore their complaining, or is it a random one of the pair? I assume morale probably plays into it somehow.

Archonsod said:

bravesirknight said:

Don't like the system really, it amounts to having to take prepackaged groups because they are all such evil SOBs they will screw you over otherwise. It would be better if there were actual ways to appease situations, duels with people who leave, and more fun about it. It's funny when you first see their conversations but pretty soon you realize pretty much every "conflict" that comes up is just screwing up your group even more.

Click to expand...

So don't take a group with conflicts. This ain't Neverwinter Nights.


Question - is the NPC's who leave random or specific? Say you have Rolf and Bunduck, will it always be Rolf who leaves if you ignore their complaining, or is it a random one of the pair? I assume morale probably plays into it somehow.

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Very good question.  I'll need to test it out.  Right now, my hunch is that whoever complains first will leave first, since they will have been upset longer (unless taking sides has a stronger effect than it has seemed to.)  Might be several factors.

How do you tell which NPCs like each other and how does this affect things?

Jubal said:

How do you tell which NPCs like each other and how does this affect things?

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Keep both in your party, travel and fight for a while, and they'll tell you believe me.  So far, it just seems to affect them complaining and then deserting.  Since the desertions can't always be prevented, even with victories and good food, I made a list, so you know who'd eventually be a problem.

Thanks for making those lists!

After Ymira deserted (right after I bought the ***** plate armor too! )
I chose my list and kicked all those whiny nonconformist out! 

I just want to say thanks to Kaeldragor and Pearcer.  The research you've done on this has saved me a world of trouble, based on some of the issues others are having.

Right, yep, I just chucked Alayen out (I'd already got Marnid to lvl20 so it was the better option), and Klethi and whatshername have started a little love-fest.

[DISCLAIMER: I realize all of these issues could have been avoided had I paid closer attention to this thread, but I was too busy playing and trying to enjoy the roleplaying aspects by going my own way, rather than minimaxing. I also realize that the single save game thing has been done to death in other threads. Finally, realize that I love this game, and feel that it is a perfect example of why indy developers will continue to make PC gaming rock, no matter how much Big Software wants to push us all to consoles. With that said, I need to vent my frustration!]

Okay, so my desire to experiment and buck the trend has finally come back to bite me.

I had a large party of NPCs, all getting along fairly well - there was a fair bit of bickering, but I was actually taking sides and telling people the way it was going to be. Khelti? Stop gutting the wounded. Baron? You can play noble all you want, but no, I'm not going to MAKE the others address you as such. And so on.

Then I noticed that the little psycho was getting very irate, and upsetting my followers that I actually like - so I kicked her out. No problem. Then I decided I'd clean house and prevent further whining. However, it was late, and I was tired, and I was messing around, and I screwed up the "least cost path" and kicked both Borsha AND the Baron out to keep Deveshari in the group. Which was dumb. But it was 1am, I had to work today, and I'm on cold medicine that makes me a bit foggy.

Of course, then I wake up and think "What did I do?!"

Long story short (too late, yes, I know), not the end of the world, I can get them back (If King Ragnar doesn't summon his favorite Merc Captain so often that I don't get the chance), but with just the one save game, it makes these sorts of experiments problematic. I'm going to be much less likely to play around and try new permutations and interactions when I know that it's going to cost me a few (more like several, what with the Mercenary Curse) hours of play time to fix things when I screw up.

Anyway - all griping aside, how important is inventory management? I like Katrin, but she doesn't fight nearly as well as that horse archer (Beshar...Beshi...Beshalumpacampi...the horse archer dude) and he's lower maintenance and gets along with everyone fairly well (even puts up with Katrin, who treats him so poorly). I seem to recall reading that inventory management does not function as advertised...if that's the case, I'll let the person who is causing the problem desert before I fire the guy who's holding up his end.

And, yes, still taking the cold meds. Whee!

-Tiglath-

Tiglath said:

Anyway - all griping aside, how important is inventory management? I like Katrin, but she doesn't fight nearly as well

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Near as I can tell, the fact she has 7 I.M. is great for her, but I don't think it affects you at all--I.M. is a Leader skill, so if you want more slots *YOU* have to pay for them.  Skills are confusing--I'm still trying to figure out how Party skills work exactly.  Sorry for the derail.  Great thread, BTW.

Really? Aw man!

And I liked the horse archer dude! Looks like I'm going to be frequenting a few taverns, handing out apologies.

Ah well...there's worse fates.

(And, yes, great thread, should be stickied.)

-Tiglath-

starting levels and stats

ALAYEN lvl 2
str 11
agi 8
int 7
cha 8

ARTIMENNER lvl 7
9
9
12
8

BAHESHTUR lvl 5
9
9
12
7

BORCHA lvl 3
8
7
12
7

BUNDUK lvl 9
12
8
9
11

DESHAVI lvl 2
8
9
10
6

FIRENTIS lvl 6
10
12
10
5

JEREMUS lvl 4
8
7
13
7

KATRIN lvl 8
8
11
10
10

KLETHI lvl 2
7
11
8
7

LEZALIT lvl 5
9
8
11
8

MARNID lvl 1
7
7
11
6

MATHELD lvl 7
9
10
9
10

NIZAR lvl 3
7
7
12
8

ROLF lvl 10
10
9
13
10

YMIRA lvl 1
6
9
11
6

it's probably better to pick people with low starting levels so you can train them the way you want or to pick people with high ints for party skills. plus, one thing i noticed was that some npcs have more stat points than others. compare rolf with ymira. rolf has 42 total and ymira has 32. in 9 levels, ymira will have 41, which is 1 less than what rolf has at lvl 10. same with baheshtur and artimenner. 1 point is probably not that big of a deal, but it's something to keep in mind.

Jeremus Config is the best, because of Jeremus. You don't need handle Engineering yourself. Just raise this skill by a NPC with high INT.

Something in the player stats seems to affect NPC longevity in your party.  My lvl 35 imported character held on to arguing NPCs a lot longer than my new character. The import had high leadership and persuasion, but becasue the experiment had no control, IDK which stat was the cause, if any.  Dissatisfied new character NPCs leave after about a week, import NPCs left after a month or longer.

My guess is that persuasion will have to do with how well they take your response to their complaints, and leadership might impact how likely to defect they are (in other words, if you're a good leader, but not persuasive, they may be concerned about things, but never desert.... just a guess though, without module system.

I can add that Baheshtur doesn't like it when your party takes heavy casualties in victory. Although he complained after we lost about 5 men out of a party of 17, not sure what his complaint threshold is. If you include wounded men, then over half of the party were casualties.

NPC morale is good reason now keep lots of yummu goodies in your inventory (food). Now you have reason to spend all that extra money since lots of butter and honey can cost a lot, but if your men are going to die for you, then isn't it fair that they at least die their stomachs full and smile on their face?

If you are going into a war then be prepared to morale losses early on. It's not like that merry trade life on the road where it doesn't much matter what they are eating, if they have to do suicide onslaughts against castle walls.

Wasn't it in WWII too that when boys got extra rations or something other goodies, they knew that there is going to be big attack soon

Deshavi doesn't like it when you lose a lot of men either.

I had artimenner and bunduk complain about losing too many men. I suspect it's one of those things like hunger and low wages that bug everyone

I did some experiments, and found that with 8 or more in persuasion skill, then NPC's morale will gradually increase even if they dislike someone in the party. With persuasion 7 or less, then morale would inevitably fall, and they would desert sooner or later, even if party morale was excellent. Leadership didn't seem to have any direct effect, but of course high leadership makes it easier to keep party morale high, making NPCs stay a little bit longer.

For my test, each NPC had one friend and one enemy in my party, I don't know what would happen with no friends or multiple enemies. I also didn't test if which reply you choose when they start bugging you matters.

kaeldragor said:

My guess is that persuasion will have to do with how well they take your response to their complaints, and leadership might impact how likely to defect they are (in other words, if you're a good leader, but not persuasive, they may be concerned about things, but never desert.... just a guess though, without module system.

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Good thinking there, chief. If this isn't in already, it should be.

Boy, this is a really useful thread! Maybe people should keep bumping it until the mods sticky the sucker, hmm? >_>