[ECS2] Discussions and Improvements

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Tardet

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Dear Community.

Resulting from the wish of a certain amount of people who took part in this tournament, this thread will be exclusivly dedicated to the discussion concerning the second edition of the ECS, no matter which part of the competition they want to highlight.

However and before going further and deeper into the subject, I would like to remind everyone of some basic rules of cortesy which must be followed If we want an useful discussion to happen.

- Trolling will not be tolarated here. This thread is made for people who want to bring constructives critisms or proposal towards the admin team or the tournament in general, not to settle their scores with some individuals.

- In the same idea, please, in any ways, remain respectful towards the people you discuss with, even though they don't share your opinions. Especially if they don't, should I say.

- This thread brings no promess to solve all the problems you will speak about. The aim is simply to give the possibility of a mature and calm discussion to happen.

Hope we'll see something happening despite the general bad-tempered attitute of some individual. No matter what you think, I personally care about what you have to say, it's your role to get the forms to express it.




I repost what Alene wrote has I see it as a constructive critism towards the ECS and the admin team. I would like to see If some want to anwser it, then I will eventually give my personal opinion as one of the person concerned by it.

Alene said:
Well done, another tournament over. However, there's always room for improvement, so here's some criticism:

In this tournament I was mostly a bystander, but I took a note of some things that I thought should be discussed before the next tournament.

The biggest issue is naturally the pink javelin issue, or "the javelin gate". I am aware that the rule was discussed before the tournament, and based on that I agree with the ban of Sotamursu. Therefore the criticism goes to the moment when the rule was discussed. I cannot understand who really thinks that having pink javelins would give an unfair advantage big enough to be banned from the tournament. Maybe it's just me not understanding the game mechanics, but to me it sounds really stupid. In any case, in the next tournament, I would like to see common sense used in each and every rule.

Other issue from the "javelin gate" is the verdict. There was a rule breaked by the other team as well, one that resulted with suspension. Now, I said I agreed with Sota's ban, but I don't agree with the rest of the verdict. The match was to be replayed, and Sota cannot play in it because of the ban. How come the person from the other team could? Wasn't WDY the team that was wronged, and should've gotten the advantage, and not the next one who was fighting them? Weird. In the next tournament, I would like to see common sense used in each and every verdict.

Third issue is banning of clan's name. Sure, the abbrevation was stupid, but who wanted it banned? Are we going to be an odorless and tasteless community where unwanted material is swept under the carpet? I really don't like the direction.

And fourth issue is the sponsors. Well, one of them. And that is the great and magnificent Team Razer. Ok, you got it to sponsor a Warband tournament. Well done. Really. But is it really necessary to spam it everywhere? There's stuff of it forums and twitter. In streams their logo is visible all the time, there's their ad running every now and then and there's even their damn logo in the map? And, other sponsors did not get anywhere near that amount of visibility. Whether Razer required that visibility, I do not know, but too much is too much. I probably have less tolerance for this than most though.

Despite my criticism, the tournament looked great. Since my criticism was towards the admin team, I honestly must say that for the rest of the stuff it seemed to work seamlessly. If I had to pick one admin who shined in this, it'd be Aeronwen. She seemed to have a huge amount of responsibilities in the tourny, and tirelessly piloted it to the finish line. And also apparently secured sponsors. Extremely impressive work. Thumbs up for other admins as well. And players. And streamers. And referees.

Oh, and congratulations to Freelancers! :party:

 
Watly said:
I see some really good ideas being thrown around. What if we make a list with download links of modifications that we as a community approve of using?

This way, it is always clear whether the mod you're using is cheating or not and it allows for a higher level competitive environment.

Examples of mods that would, in my opinion, improve competitive Warband:

- Wolfpack's mod, which allows you to make preset equipment, increasing the speed at which both teams spawn.
- Swordyke's mod, which shows the classes of your teammate and the current equipment you will spawn with in the next round, making Warband less messy in general.
- Custom crosshairs, some people like soft beds, some people like rough beds and it's roughly the same with crosshairs. Greater customization in the archer class.

If someone uses any other modifications and is discovered, they will be permanently banned from the tournament. If this is added to the tournament rules along with the allowed modifications, it will be a lot easier for admins to control the situation as well as improve the quality of play.
 
The thing is that at least some of the modifications mentioned by you are giving the using player an advantage over anyone that doesn't use it.
Plus, the Wolfpack Admin Mod is afaik not openly available as of the time.
 
The Wolfpack Mod is not availalble for everyone, that's true. But the feature you're talking about is public and has been used for ages as far as I know: Nirecotive Mod.
That being said, I don't see it as an advantage but as an improvement for the game. It is in fact a bit lame that this feature wasn't implemented in the Native original mod :/
 
+Varsung+ said:
The thing is that at least some of the modifications mentioned by you are giving the using player an advantage over anyone that doesn't use it.
Plus, the Wolfpack Admin Mod is afaik not openly available as of the time.

Aye, an advantage that anyone who wishes to use, can use. People being lazy is not a good argument against allowing a specific list of mods. Also, these are just examples.
 
some people like white beds and some people like pink beds  :fruity: :fruity: :fruity:

jk ofc

Few good points from Watly. An ECS/WNL mod with possibly all of those mentioned included would be great, but I suppose we can't expect admins to do the work for others.  :roll:
 
it's kinda weird to permaban somebody for using pink-colored javs, given the circumstances that they barely provided any advantage and the owner's intentions having been proven innocent.
I think the punishment shouldn't have been dictated by rules (because this was a very weird situation, majority of people caught cheating mean to do it and use decent cheats) .
 
Dawnut said:
it's kinda weird to permaban somebody for using pink-colored javs, given the circumstances that they barely provided any advantage and the owner's intentions having been proven innocent.
I think the punishment shouldn't have been dictated by rules (because this was a very weird situation, majority of people caught cheating mean to do it and use decent cheats) .
Not going to judge the chosen decision.

Just want to point out that if you don't put the punishment in the rules, every case is subjective, and can be argued into oblivion with bias claims and other bull****.
If you don't have something to enforce a punishment, you could argue every judgement and decision is useless and not based on fair decision making.

That's why punishments are in the rules, it would be mayhem on any incident if they weren't.
 
Whether it's weird or bad or whatever the **** you want to call it, it's a pointless discussion by now. What a better discussion is: how do we check if someone's cheating and what punishment do we give him? Personally, I don't see the point in using any modifications to your Warband apart from the ones that are allowed by the tournament, so a perma-ban for modifications that aren't allowed by rules is a good idea in my opinion. The most innocent reasons I could think of for using modifications are testing and trying to be funny and it's quite easy to notice that you're using a mod before a match starts.

To add to what I posted previously: creating a list with tournament mods would lessen the gap that cheating creates, thus making cheating less advantegous.
 
Le Roux said:
Dawnut said:
it's kinda weird to permaban somebody for using pink-colored javs, given the circumstances that they barely provided any advantage and the owner's intentions having been proven innocent.
I think the punishment shouldn't have been dictated by rules (because this was a very weird situation, majority of people caught cheating mean to do it and use decent cheats) .
Not going to judge the chosen decision.

Just want to point out that if you don't put the punishment in the rules, every case is subjective, and can be argued into oblivion with bias claims and other bull****.
If you don't have something to enforce a punishment, you could argue every judgement and decision is useless and not based on fair decision making.

That's why punishments are in the rules, it would be mayhem on any incident if they weren't.

That's true I suppose, but this other way I wouldn't call "fair decision-making" either, for this specific case.
Maybe stating different punishments for different groups of cheats according to their game-impact could have worked here.
 
Dawnut said:
it's kinda weird to permaban somebody for using pink-colored javs, given the circumstances that they barely provided any advantage and the owner's intentions having been proven innocent.
I think the punishment shouldn't have been dictated by rules (because this was a very weird situation, majority of people caught cheating mean to do it and use decent cheats) .

While I agree with you that the punishment was over the top for that specific case, you still have to take in mind that this exact scenario has been discussed before the tournament thanks to the help of Kragen who was trying to prove a point. It was clearly stated by Mr. Deacon that the usage of any pink texture will be considered cheating and according to the rules we've given this tournament, which have been accepted by all clans/teams prior to the tournament, any kind of cheating will be punished with a ban from the tournament.

Although me, and probably my colleagues as well, thought this punishment as being too harsh in that specific case, we were bound by our previous statements.

The thing I was and am more concerned about was the ruling of a rematch in that specific case since both teams/parts of both teams transgressed some rule, minor or major. At this point in time nor now was or is the ruling of a rematch supported by the rules hence it was solely dependend upon the administration's discretion and interpretation of the severity of this case.

In situations where we as admins are allowed/given the opportunity to rule less dependant on rules but on case-by-case basis there are only 2 options we have:
[list type=decimal]
[*]The popular way: Decide in the way we think the broad public, i.e. the players participating in the tournament/on forums, will most likely decide, or:
[*]The unpopular way: Decide in the way we as admins think it is justified by similar rules,our own statements or the guidlines we've given us.
[/list]

The problem with the first one is that it would leave an admin team with little to no power or respect if it comes to severe cases.
Although the latter one obviously may cause some exorbitant decisions it is the better way to decide from the administration's point of view as it ensures the respect and power needed to run a tournament.

As there will always be discussions about situations where the administration team has to decide independent of the rule set and as rule violations for these cases happen we have no other option to have the punishment set in the rules to prevent these discussions.

Since the "Standard-Warband-Ruleset" is and will always be a community project work in progress I suggest adding a set of rules for rematches, i.e. suspended players are not allowed to play a rematch on top of their suspensions or similar.

I also highly encourage everyone who objects any part of the rules or thinks that he/she has anything worthy to add should speak out now, before the start of the next tournament, simply to ensure that the next one will run even smoother than this one and to avoid future, avoidable discussions.

Thank you for taking the time to read!
 
why not? yes he made a mistake, and that mistake was huge but he is aware of what he has done and he is remorseful and also he didn't ddos anything in ecs2. please don't be so harsh about it there are many ppl who had been proven to have used hacks or have done something wrong in the past but they are still playing this game without any punishment...

about sota's ban im not saying banning him was WRONG im just saying i found it too HARSH (do not tell me it was in the rules, then that rule was wrong). punishment should have been something like a ban for 1-2 matches and should have been defined similarly in the rules nothing changes if someone uses pink javs or arrows. the colour of the arrows is irrelevant - its just useless cosmetic thing and doesn't give you anything
 
Arni didn't make one mistake. He has been making mistakes for years: insulting people on IG very often, trolling the forums, having several warband keys (this is bad in 2 ways: because of the way he gets those keys and because of the reason of having those), screwing important matches up like the ECS1 finals? (I can't remember) and, most importantly, behaving like a kid and Ddosing the servers because admins wouldn't let him play.

I mean, it is proven that there's something wrong with his brain if the better solution he can come up with after being banned is Ddosing the servers. He has been given PLENTY of chances in IG_BG, forums and tournaments. Why should we believe he has changed after so few time? We're not talking about someone who was banned on IG:BG for insulting and having aimbot, no, this case is a hundred times worse.

That being said, I'm one of those who thinks people can change and deserve 2,3,4...chances but not just now, maybe next year; he can't just damage the community like that and be allowed to play less than a year later.

PS: I find it funny that huge mistakes like Arni's could be justified because other people cheat aswell and they don't have any punishment, reminds me of Spanish (and probably other countries') politicians and corruption xD
 
Sir Galahad the Pure said:
Arni didn't make one mistake. He has been making mistakes for years: insulting people on IG very often, trolling the forums, having several warband keys (this is bad in 2 ways: because of the way he gets those keys and because of the reason of having those), screwing important matches up like the ECS1 finals? (I can't remember) and, most importantly, behaving like a kid and Ddosing the servers because admins wouldn't let him play.

I mean, it is proven that there's something wrong with his brain if the better solution he can come up with after being banned is Ddosing the servers. He has been given PLENTY of chances in IG_BG, forums and tournaments. Why should we believe he has changed after so few time? We're not talking about someone who was banned on IG:BG for insulting and having aimbot, no, this case is a hundred times worse.

That being said, I'm one of those who thinks people can change and deserve 2,3,4...chances but not just now, maybe next year; he can't just damage the community like that and be allowed to play less than a year later.
Basically this. And it really irritates me to see that some people just don't get it.
 
This is a man whose cheated in almost every tournament he's played in, has DDoSed tournament servers on multiple occasions and also attacked and trolled the most popular battle server on numerous occasions. He was offered a fresh start every time but each time he decided to spit on the community's face. I was far too lenient in the past, I figured after getting caught he would stop but I was wrong. He's been obsessed with attacking and damaging the community for years. I'm partially responsibly for not banning him sooner. Only a few months earlier he was angrily DDosing and now he's a reformed character? Laughable.
 
http://prntscr.com/7irhyv - Took around a month ago?, is this Arni?

No idea if this has anything to do with it. Prime example?, But most people are two faced nowadays, most people have seen the worst extent of Arni, some haven't. I've honestly not seen anything bad with Arni since I came here, I do 2v2s with him on occasions and it's pretty fine. Maybe he's a changed man? we'll never know.
 
Im Arni and I got permamently banned for all clan tournaments for a lifetime by AE_Scar. I had been already banned for more than 6 months during NC and ECS period. and I deserved that ban. I have ddosed servers because of rage, I have played 1 match for a team that I wasnt part of during WNL simply because I thought it would be fun to, and I broke multiclanning rule, I have been very rude against many members in this community and I deserve their hate, have done many bad things, I ruined fun for a lot of players in this game and I am really sorry for it. I dont know what can I do to atone my bad actions.

When I saw that im banned from ECS, I tried to contact AE admins and they told me that they would never ever let me play this game in any clan tournament, that they hate me and they ll make sure they ll never see me ingame. I even offered to pay real money as a refund for my ddos, but they laughed and told me it wouldnt help. I dont know what to do, I have a lot of friends in this game and I really want to play it, I was sure that 8 months ban during NC and ECS would be enough for them as a punishment but I guess it wasnt. Im the only player for all warband history who is banned for more than 1 tourney. A lot of people were caught cheating at different tournaments at different time, and none of them has been banned. Yet I got a lifetime sentence. I know I deserve a punishment but I really think it is just too much.

Deacon says that I "cheated in every tournament he played in" but I can only say this about WNL4, when I played 1 match for Wanderers in 1st week, I have never cheated before and im not going to in the future. You cant name any other tournament for all my 5 years of playing that i cheated in. Yes I have trolled and insulted many people on IG BG and I have many keys banned from there, but many AE members are banned from IG BG too and ban from IG BG has never been a reason enough to ban from actual clan tournaments. I have nothing to do with "screwing important ECS finals", I think it was already proven that time. if it was me, then I d be banned back then. But it wasnt. Galahad also states as one of the reasons of my ban 'trolling on forums'. Seriously? Yet again, let me repeat, I do agree that I damaged this community a lot and I totally deserve punishment and ban. But I think the only things that were banworthy were cheating in WNL4 and DDosing servers. I couldnt play with my friends for 8 months during 2 tournaments, now from what I read, Deacon wants to ban me for another 6 months or maybe even more. You all write what a bad person I am and that 8 months werent enough to change but if I didnt want to change and if I kept damagint the community, I would just keep ddosing servers and trying to sneak into tournaments with a different keys. I could ddos servers for as much time as I want to. But I didnt, it would be stupid, pathetic and do no good, I understand it now, I just want another chance, I want to play under my real nickname, I dont want to hide and break rules anymore, just please let me play again.
 
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