New scene I made for NW

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJdGgIK6euI&feature=youtu.be

Bird's eye view of the map with player barriers visible: http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/719791555842913441/7EF4087EDBCA2BAA05797E134E3A2C2E18D7F6B3/

-Team 2 spawns closer to the town which has a small stockade with a cannon and quite a few houses to hide in
-Team 1 is closer to the wooden fort, a small farming village, and a hill on the side of the map that is primarily populated by trees.
-Neither side has a significant advantage in reaching the center hall of the mountain. But Team 2 is a little bit closer.

The mountain is surrounded by an extremely thorough layer of barriers that players can not travel through (they're one way barriers, they block your path upwards).

The heavily wooded area has a hill that clearly favors Team 1. If team 1 is found to, in general, have an advantage, a hill currently blocked off by player barriers which is closer to Team 2 can be opened up. This "hill" is significantly higher than Team 1's.

Here's the link to the file that goes in your SceneObj folder: https://www.dropbox.com/s/1rels1lf223hueo/scn_mp_custom_map_6.sco?dl=0
Here's the terrain code:
scn_mp_custom_map_6 mp_custom_map_6 256 none none 0.000000 0.000000 310.000000 310.000000 -100.000000 0x00000001300000000008e633000041ef00005ae800003c55
  0
  0
If you want to use it for whatever, go ahead, if you can credit me it would be appreciated.

If you have any suggestions or criticisms I would be happy to hear them, probably.

Some basic questions from another map maker.  What game mode(s) is this made for?  Is this for lbs? 

What is the minimum pop required for it to work? How big is the dl and how long would it take to dl on average. 

how quick on average are the rounds or how long do you think they will be?  how long would it take for first contact with the enemy? 

I cant tell which way the spawns are facing but you should never but them on map edge imo.  There is usually an invisible barrier, and if someone spawns behind it, there is no way to get to them.  and if they are able to reach the very edge of the map, they could start teleporting around the map.  those spawns the way they are seem like trouble.  I would recommend spawning 100 or so bots to test the spawn out if you haven't already.  Battle only requires 2 spawn points(0 and 32), meaning that the rest are useless. and they should spawn back and to the right of the spawn point. 

somewhat tied to the dl point above.  That middle hill is a little big imo.  For a place that no one will be getting to, it takes up a lot of space.(not talking about the part that is allowed)  I am curious how much size in kb that hill took up by itself.(terrain can take up a lot of dl space)

it looks neat but as for how the map plays, idk.  i feel like it could be very campy for pub play.  where as lbs it may be better.

Thunderstormer said:

Some basic questions from another map maker.  What game mode(s) is this made for?  Is this for lbs?

Click to expand...

As you mentioned later on, it could be very campy for pub play. There's the town, the fort, the hill on the wooded side, the little Spanish village, all of them are places I would expect pubs to camp on. I wouldn't expect any pub server to use it unless there was a large number of players.

Thunderstormer said:

What is the minimum pop required for it to work? How big is the dl and how long would it take to dl on average.

Click to expand...

Minimum pop I would say is at least about 30 people on each team. The reason for the number of people is that the size of the map is wasted if players don't make use of all 3 "lanes;" if players only use 2 of the "lanes" then the 3rd one might as well be removed. File size is 386.38 KB, that's compared to 323 KB for Arabian Harbour. So it's going to take a little bit longer to download than Arbian Harbour; not as massive as you might think given all the terrain in the center.

Thunderstormer said:

how quick on average are the rounds or how long do you think they will be?  how long would it take for first contact with the enemy?

Click to expand...

First contact for cavalry could be extremely quick. I'm not sure if you're able to tell but those tunnels through the mountain go straight for each other, both sides could have cavalry in the center hall very quickly, and infantry not long after that. The wooded area, having good cover only for team 1 (the one furthest from the large town) would logically force team 2 to attempt to push through on that flank, or hold back far from the hill (pubs do not think logically, though, so this wouldn't hold up on a public server, but it should in an LB). 

Thunderstormer said:

I cant tell which way the spawns are facing but you should never but them on map edge imo.  There is usually an invisible barrier, and if someone spawns behind it, there is no way to get to them.  and if they are able to reach the very edge of the map, they could start teleporting around the map.  those spawns the way they are seem like trouble.  I would recommend spawning 100 or so bots to test the spawn out if you haven't already.  Battle only requires 2 spawn points(0 and 32), meaning that the rest are useless. and they should spawn back and to the right of the spawn point. 

Click to expand...

The spawns are facing the mountain.
The point about testing is a good idea, I'll try that.
The spawns could be moved, if I had to move them, I would put Team 1's spawn (the one near the Spanish village) closer to said Spanish village, this would have the somewhat negative effect of putting them even closer to the wooden fort in which they already had an advantage in reaching. Team 2's spawn I would move towards the heavily wooded corner nearest to them, if the Spanish village (Team 1) is Northwest I would put Team 2 far southwest.

Thunderstormer said:

somewhat tied to the dl point above.  That middle hill is a little big imo.  For a place that no one will be getting to, it takes up a lot of space.(not talking about the part that is allowed)  I am curious how much size in kb that hill took up by itself.(terrain can take up a lot of dl space)

Click to expand...

If your main issue with it is dl space, as I said, the map is only a little bit bigger than Arabian harbour. If the main issue is aesthetic, the hill could be made smaller.

Thunderstormer said:

it looks neat but as for how the map plays, idk.  i feel like it could be very campy for pub play.  where as lbs it may be better.

Click to expand...

Yeah, that's probably right. For pub play I would imagine that Team 1 would camp the wooden fort and Team 2 would camp the town, although Team 1 probably has the advantage in that situation because although Team 2 also has a cannon in their little stockade Team 2's cannon has a large height advantage. For LBs, there's another issue- who is going to get to the center hall in the mountain? The halls are narrow (which could be changed in 10-20 minutes) and only allow for about 3 men standing side by side comfortably. This means there would sort of be a race to line up inside the center hall, because if you're  coming out of the tunnel when your enemies are already lined up you're at a huge disadvantage. I also expect that the center hall would devolve into a melee fight rather quickly. This means that this map would tend to favor regiments that are best at melee. I could imagine another issue: the center hall might be the deciding factor in any given match. What I mean is that the side with the Spanish village/large town lends itself to camping, the heavily wooded area (probably too heavily wooded for an LB) wouldn't devolve into melee as quickly, so basically I imagine that the center hall might decide the victor via melee early on, said victor would continue on to flank the enemy team. If one side wants to avoid melee in the center hall, they could just camp the end of their tunnel which should be significantly easier to defend the center hall.

Another point I might add is that it would be possible to make the mountain small enough to be traversed without eliminating the tunnel in the center. Although, I think I'd have to remove the wooden fort if I did that.

Everything I comment on is from the screen shot, so apologies if I miss some stuff.(i should of put that in my last post)

As you mentioned later on, it could be very campy for pub play. There's the town, the fort, the hill on the wooded side, the little Spanish village, all of them are places I would expect pubs to camp on. I wouldn't expect any pub server to use it unless there was a large number of players.

Minimum pop I would say is at least about 30 people on each team. The reason for the number of people is that the size of the map is wasted if players don't make use of all 3 "lanes;" if players only use 2 of the "lanes" then the 3rd one might as well be removed. File size is 386.38 KB, that's compared to 323 KB for Arabian Harbour. So it's going to take a little bit longer to download than Arbian Harbour; not as massive as you might think given all the terrain in the center.

Click to expand...

Looking at the whole map, it seems like it would be best played with 120+ at the very least.  If you made it smaller, then less amount of people would be required to fill it out.  Looking at the picture though, it just seems to enticing for one team or both to camp their ends and wait it out.(pub play)

French farm is about 500kb(idk why it is that large, probably mostly all in terrain) and it takes about a minute to download.  Arabian harbor takes about 35 seconds to download.  So you can do the math and figure out how long it would take for people to download it.  Now at events, I would say having 150+ waiting say 45 seconds to download is a long time, and who knows how the server will handle it. Usually at events, custom maps are acceptable, so having to wait to dl one isn't that big of a deal.  It is also a long time to wait for a pub map, where admins would have to reset the map, and with 150+ pubs, that is a long dl for a map that may take a long time depending on the game mode.

First contact for cavalry could be extremely quick. I'm not sure if you're able to tell but those tunnels through the mountain go straight for each other, both sides could have cavalry in the center hall very quickly, and infantry not long after that. The wooded area, having good cover only for team 1 (the one furthest from the large town) would logically force team 2 to attempt to push through on that flank, or hold back far from the hill (pubs do not think logically, though, so this wouldn't hold up on a public server, but it should in an LB).

Click to expand...

Now I can't see those tunnels in the hills, so those may help out.  on the downside, they could be potentially isolating.  meaning that people wont know people are there unless they go in, and due to the line of sight, may make it hard to find the last people.(the hill also effects this)

The spawns are facing the mountain.
The point about testing is a good idea, I'll try that.
The spawns could be moved, if I had to move them, I would put Team 1's spawn (the one near the Spanish village) closer to said Spanish village, this would have the somewhat negative effect of putting them even closer to the wooden fort in which they already had an advantage in reaching. Team 2's spawn I would move towards the heavily wooded corner nearest to them, if the Spanish village (Team 1) is Northwest I would put Team 2 far southwest.

Click to expand...

 

I can't tell where map edge is, but you could just slide them in(east or west) a certain amount so that everyone spawns on the map, and maybe a little extra space.  You shouldn't have to slide them north or south towards or away from the villages.    The one on the left seems to be far enough in, but testing would have to confirm that.  the one on the right would definitely need to be moved.

If your main issue with it is dl space, as I said, the map is only a little bit bigger than Arabian harbour. If the main issue is aesthetic, the hill could be made smaller.

Click to expand...

See my point above.

Yeah, that's probably right. For pub play I would imagine that Team 1 would camp the wooden fort and Team 2 would camp the town, although Team 1 probably has the advantage in that situation because although Team 2 also has a cannon in their little stockade Team 2's cannon has a large height advantage. For LBs, there's another issue- who is going to get to the center hall in the mountain? The halls are narrow (which could be changed in 10-20 minutes) and only allow for about 3 men standing side by side comfortably. This means there would sort of be a race to line up inside the center hall, because if you're  coming out of the tunnel when your enemies are already lined up you're at a huge disadvantage. I also expect that the center hall would devolve into a melee fight rather quickly. This means that this map would tend to favor regiments that are best at melee. I could imagine another issue: the center hall might be the deciding factor in any given match. What I mean is that the side with the Spanish village/large town lends itself to camping, the heavily wooded area (probably too heavily wooded for an LB) wouldn't devolve into melee as quickly, so basically I imagine that the center hall might decide the victor via melee early on, said victor would continue on to flank the enemy team. If one side wants to avoid melee in the center hall, they could just camp the end of their tunnel which should be significantly easier to defend the center hall.

Another point I might add is that it would be possible to make the mountain small enough to be traversed without eliminating the tunnel in the center. Although, I think I'd have to remove the wooden fort if I did that.

Click to expand...

Yea, you raised some possible issues.  I guess I would say, make the map to fit what you want.  If you want a pub map, then you should make the map pub friendly.  If you are going to make it for LBs, then you want to make it LB friendly.  There are not many maps that suit both groups.  and it is easier to get it to fit one category or another, than both.(this could also include different game modes)

i make all my maps to fit pub play.  as such i don't have to worry about other game modes or different game types in the same mode(like lbs)

You could make 2 maps, by modifying the one you have into 2 different versions.  Allowing you to have a map in both categories.(just be sure to write down a way to tell the difference in the saves)

i did something similar with one of my new maps.  Made a small and large version.  The large one will be used when the population is high enough while the small one is being used currently.

Thunderstormer said:

Looking at the whole map, it seems like it would be best played with 120+ at the very least.  If you made it smaller, then less amount of people would be required to fill it out.  Looking at the picture though, it just seems to enticing for one team or both to camp their ends and wait it out.(pub play)

Click to expand...

Yeah, you have more experience than me, so I'll take your word for it.

Thunderstormer said:

Yea, you raised some possible issues.  I guess I would say, make the map to fit what you want.  If you want a pub map, then you should make the map pub friendly.  If you are going to make it for LBs, then you want to make it LB friendly.  There are not many maps that suit both groups.  and it is easier to get it to fit one category or another, than both.(this could also include different game modes)

Click to expand...

I'm guessing it's more acceptable to have campy areas in LBs than in pub games? And also larger maps, because in a pub game you don't want to be waiting for the last few guys to find each other.

Thunderstormer said:

You could make 2 maps, by modifying the one you have into 2 different versions.  Allowing you to have a map in both categories.(just be sure to write down a way to tell the difference in the saves)

i did something similar with one of my new maps.  Made a small and large version.  The large one will be used when the population is high enough while the small one is being used currently.

Click to expand...

For resizing, would I alter the actual size of the map, or just turn half the map into water? If I had to make the map smaller via editing alone, I'd turn the wooded area into water, but if I could remove that wooded area from the map entirely that would save some download size.

Edit: Spawned a 100 bots on both teams and it appears some bots spawned in the opposing team's spawn. Not sure if this was because of the game mode (Team deathmatch I believe) or because of team 1's spawn being to close to the border.

Also, going to start work on a new map which should be more balanced.. It's not that there won't be places to camp, but each team will be almost the exact same distance from those spots (A harbor in the top left corner, harbor in the bottom right, spawns on top right/bottom left)

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=437890219
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=437890159

Yeah, you have more experience than me, so I'll take your word for it.

Click to expand...

Well look at it this way.  every time you make a different path for people to take, you dilute the numbers.  Same goes for every time you make off shoots of the different paths.  large space can also dilute numbers.  To me, that map looks like there are a lot of different places to run off too. 

I'm guessing it's more acceptable to have campy areas in LBs than in pub games? And also larger maps, because in a pub game you don't want to be waiting for the last few guys to find each other.

Click to expand...

Depends on the LB. some are more campier than others.  You also have people moving around in mass, making it easier to find people.(they may include a whole team.)  They also make better targets for arty when they camp together.

For resizing, would I alter the actual size of the map, or just turn half the map into water? If I had to make the map smaller via editing alone, I'd turn the wooded area into water, but if I could remove that wooded area from the map entirely that would save some download size.

Edit: Spawned a 100 bots on both teams and it appears some bots spawned in the opposing team's spawn. Not sure if this was because of the game mode (Team deathmatch I believe) or because of team 1's spawn being to close to the border.

Also, going to start work on a new map which should be more balanced.. It's not that there won't be places to camp, but each team will be almost the exact same distance from those spots (A harbor in the top left corner, harbor in the bottom right, spawns on top right/bottom left)

Click to expand...

Well resizing it would essentially cut off part of the map I believe.(not sure what corner in that picture.) Basically, when you make a map larger, it works away from one corner of the map, not in the center.  Once you find out which corner that is, you can try and make it smaller.  Though that may not be the best idea. (probably want to delete the props in the area as well)

Changing terrain height will make the map a bigger download for everyone. It is cheaper to make giant barricades or props to block off the area in question.

I havent tried it with TDM, only with battle.  I would assume that only the 2 main spawns(0 and 32) would be used at first, then the rest would after.    i also haven't tried putting spawns right on map edge, so IDK what effects it may have.  Having them spawn across the map because of it may be the reason.  That or if it uses more than the 2 main spawns, then they may be using the other spawn points. 


From the pics, it looks nice.    thought about doing a cave type map a while back, but I didn't feel like looking all the props I would want to use.

Another question I can't figure out the answer to... is there a player barrier that blocks both ways?
Note: For now, I'll just use two sets of player barriers. I'm making hedgerows, for the tall ones I need them to block movement, crude fences are too visible/inconsistent to work as the same function.

i use the barriers in the B part of the list,(i think there are some MM ones, not sure how those are)    green side means they can go through, red means no.