Hypno Toad
Sergeant at Arms
One of brytenwaldas objectives is to create realistic combat, and for the most part I think it's done that very well. Good historical accuracy and more slugfest/skirmish melee combat (like it should be)
However one historical misconception that really bothers me is the accepted fact that javelins pierce and damage shields. They don't. Now for full closure I'd like to point out the fact that the Pilum (a very specific type of javelin) was most likely intended to damage shields due to its shape and it's very intensive weight factor. They have a long thin point and the entire construct weighs 2-5 KG, certainly enough to badly damage a crappy shield.
However, since the Pilum is often referred to as javelin by historians, the misconception that all javelins pierce shields arises. Javelins such as these, the small skirmish variants that would have been carried in bundles, would not be able to pierce shields. They are not long enough, not heavy enough, and the head is far too broad for these javelins to be thrown with enough force to pierce and stick into a poplar shield.
This is my own personal "theory," I the smaller skirmishing javelins would have been intended to cause injury. If one soldier were to thrown 5 of these small javelins into a formation of soldiers, he could reasonably expect that he might hit hands, hit legs, hit arms, or hit somebody in the head. Either of these outcomes would cause a significant and painful injury. In conclusion, these skirmishing volleys of small javelins would not be intended to damage shields, but would be intended to cause injury and disarray among enemy troops.
My suggestion:
I think it'd be much more realistic if "javelins," 'horsemen javelins," and "wooden javelins," did not cause extra damage to shields, and on top of that, like throwing rocks or something of that nature they should not even stick into shields. Upon hitting a shield they should just vanish like a throwing rock. It becomes sort of silly to see soldiers walking around with their shield completely plastered in these tiny javelins.
However, Throwing Spears and Angons should remain as they are now.. throwing spears and angons are much heavier and much longer, and I'd imagine they'd have a reasonable chance of piercing a poplar shield. Besides that, soldiers only carry 1-2 agnons/throwing spears so it seems fair that they'd be better.
On top of that, all throwing weapons should probably be a fair bit slower in motion. All the javelins and darts in the game move way too fast. If you've ever thrown a javelin or seen a real javelin (not one of those Olympic "flight" javelins) be thrown, they don't move that fast. They are quite slow. I realize that the soldiers in brytenwalda would be quite adept javelin throwers, but nonetheless you really shouldn't be seeing these javelins move as fast as arrows. They are a throwing object, not an object shot from a bow.
However one historical misconception that really bothers me is the accepted fact that javelins pierce and damage shields. They don't. Now for full closure I'd like to point out the fact that the Pilum (a very specific type of javelin) was most likely intended to damage shields due to its shape and it's very intensive weight factor. They have a long thin point and the entire construct weighs 2-5 KG, certainly enough to badly damage a crappy shield.
However, since the Pilum is often referred to as javelin by historians, the misconception that all javelins pierce shields arises. Javelins such as these, the small skirmish variants that would have been carried in bundles, would not be able to pierce shields. They are not long enough, not heavy enough, and the head is far too broad for these javelins to be thrown with enough force to pierce and stick into a poplar shield.
This is my own personal "theory," I the smaller skirmishing javelins would have been intended to cause injury. If one soldier were to thrown 5 of these small javelins into a formation of soldiers, he could reasonably expect that he might hit hands, hit legs, hit arms, or hit somebody in the head. Either of these outcomes would cause a significant and painful injury. In conclusion, these skirmishing volleys of small javelins would not be intended to damage shields, but would be intended to cause injury and disarray among enemy troops.
My suggestion:
I think it'd be much more realistic if "javelins," 'horsemen javelins," and "wooden javelins," did not cause extra damage to shields, and on top of that, like throwing rocks or something of that nature they should not even stick into shields. Upon hitting a shield they should just vanish like a throwing rock. It becomes sort of silly to see soldiers walking around with their shield completely plastered in these tiny javelins.
However, Throwing Spears and Angons should remain as they are now.. throwing spears and angons are much heavier and much longer, and I'd imagine they'd have a reasonable chance of piercing a poplar shield. Besides that, soldiers only carry 1-2 agnons/throwing spears so it seems fair that they'd be better.
On top of that, all throwing weapons should probably be a fair bit slower in motion. All the javelins and darts in the game move way too fast. If you've ever thrown a javelin or seen a real javelin (not one of those Olympic "flight" javelins) be thrown, they don't move that fast. They are quite slow. I realize that the soldiers in brytenwalda would be quite adept javelin throwers, but nonetheless you really shouldn't be seeing these javelins move as fast as arrows. They are a throwing object, not an object shot from a bow.
