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Outlawed
Sergeant Knight
Camels during our period were very rarely brought into battle.
If any, it would be some tribes that would actually bring the camels into the battlefield because they couldn't afford horses and camels together.
Camels were mainly used to carry supplies through arid environments and allowed the horses to remain fresh when they actually got to battle.
Also, thank you for the moral support!
I will be starting work on some models this weekend. I'll pair that up with the final unit research.
Basically, I will also make a checklist for an alpha release to see how people feel about the mod and then we will continue work on it!
If any, it would be some tribes that would actually bring the camels into the battlefield because they couldn't afford horses and camels together.
Camels were mainly used to carry supplies through arid environments and allowed the horses to remain fresh when they actually got to battle.
Also, thank you for the moral support!
I will be starting work on some models this weekend. I'll pair that up with the final unit research.
Basically, I will also make a checklist for an alpha release to see how people feel about the mod and then we will continue work on it!
Sahran
Grandmaster Knight
I think the problem I'm facing is that I'm a bit tired out of the medieval era, why I've taken with such gusto to TPW. I'll try and get back into the swing of the medieval era, though. I think I'll give it a try though, no harm in jumping back on the saddle. 
If you could add the Crusader States research to the front page for easy access that'd be good: http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,133403.msg3425120/topicseen.html#msg3425120
If you could add the Crusader States research to the front page for easy access that'd be good: http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,133403.msg3425120/topicseen.html#msg3425120
Outlawed
Sergeant Knight
Sahran said:I think the problem I'm facing is that I'm a bit tired out of the medieval era, why I've taken with such gusto to TPW. I'll try and get back into the swing of the medieval era, though. I think I'll give it a try though, no harm in jumping back on the saddle.
If you could add the Crusader States research to the front page for easy access that'd be good: http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,133403.msg3425120/topicseen.html#msg3425120
That motivates me to re-read my Italy books =)
I'll add these tomorrow after my classes as now its too late to research leaders and the such.
Welcome back
Sahran
Grandmaster Knight
I'm doing a bit of an imitation of your HRE tree because I like it's simple, streamlined approach and I think it'd be nice to keep a semblance of a same system for the Europeans. Will look a bit more impressive than it is, a lot of this was just needing to be repolished and fixed up from messiness.
NORMAN KINGDOM OF SICILY - Local/Feudal Units
NORMAN KINGDOM OF SICILY - Mercenary Units
Access to the universal Stipendiarii/Solidarius Crossbows, Infantry, Knights. You should probably also have any Maghrebi Berber mercenaries be available there too. This is where I'd have some North Italian Crossbowmen, who'll be well armed, armored, and skilled compared to any other crossbow rivals.
I'd consider maybe having a North Italic "Roster" available from the North Italian cities to anyone who seizes em. Would have spearmen, aformentioned crossbowmen, and the city-borne knights that were big in North Italy.
NORMAN KINGDOM OF SICILY - Special Units
NORMAN KINGDOM OF SICILY - Local/Feudal Units
Villanus (pl. Villani) Defensati - A re-appropration of the term I come across of "Servientes Defensati", being the serfs expected to provide their own equipment if called up to fight. I don't want to use serviens, because I associate it with the Sergeants. Villein seems to often be associated with the majority of the serfs, so it fits here! I'm not happy about "Defensati", "Defensator" may work (means defenders), but it could sound like he's a defender of serfs rather than a serf defending.
They are dudes with little more than scythes, crappy spears, hunting bows, clubs, hatchets, ect.
Villanus Pedes (pl. Villani Pedites) -
I come across a reference in Osprey about "In sicily the villein class, whether Lombard, greek, or Muslim, had to undertake specific local garrison duties". These are unarmored melee infantry, with swords/axes/maces and shield. Might have a split-off of guys with 2 handed weapons exclusively, or just mix in some 2h axes and such. Kinda iffy on it.
Villanus Sagittarius (pl. Villanus Sagittari)
I come across a reference in Osprey about "In sicily the villein class, whether Lombard, greek, or Muslim, had to undertake specific local garrison duties". These are unarmored archers with bow and sidearm.
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Retrobannum Pedes (pl. Pedites) - General Levy Infantry
The tier 1 unit from the cities. I'm always partial to equipping them with shield, spear, no armor and limited helmets (if any). You could make them wield a mix of spear and swords/falchions/axes/ect but I'm not sure on that.
Militiae Urbanus / Militiae Commune Spearmen (Latin - Hastatus, pl. Hastati) - Communal Militia Spearmen
Gambeson clad Spearmen.
Militiae Urbanus / Militiae Commune Crossbowmen (latin - Balistare, pl. Balistarii) - Communal Militia Crossbowmen
Unarmored crossbowmen, no shield.
Serviens (pl. Servientes) Spearmen - Professional Spearmen
Mail Armored spearmen
Serviens (pl. Servientes) Crossbowmen - Professional Crossbowmen
Gambeson, crossbow, probably no shield
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Serviens Eques (pl. Servientes Equites) de Lombards - (South) Lombard Mounted Sergeants
Since the Monreale Cathedral depicts cavalry completely unarmored, and there's references to the Lombard Feudal system giving light cavalry, these guys are completely unarmored cavalry (Probably some helmets for measure) with shield, spear, sidearm, maybe javelins.
Vavassin Eques (pl. Vavassini Equites) - "Lesser Vassal Horsemen"
It's always tricky to bridge the gap between sergeant and knight, and I'll admit I couldn't find a ton of resources to back up the references to Vavassini (Though I did a bit more for Vavassor, which is the superior Knights at tier 3 and 4). Either way, they'll be clad in gambesons and such.
Miles Minores de Normanni / Normanni Miles Minores / Secundi Miles de Normanni - "Junior Knights"
The second top echelon knights. Clad in mail hauberks of the 12th century and some of a more dated 11th century design.
Miles Majores de Normanni / Normanni Miles Majores / Primi Miles de Normanni - "Top Knights"
The top echelon knights. Clad in the best mail hauberks of the 12th century and some with scale or lamellar atop it in a Byzantine/Arab style.
They are dudes with little more than scythes, crappy spears, hunting bows, clubs, hatchets, ect.
Villanus Pedes (pl. Villani Pedites) -
I come across a reference in Osprey about "In sicily the villein class, whether Lombard, greek, or Muslim, had to undertake specific local garrison duties". These are unarmored melee infantry, with swords/axes/maces and shield. Might have a split-off of guys with 2 handed weapons exclusively, or just mix in some 2h axes and such. Kinda iffy on it.
Villanus Sagittarius (pl. Villanus Sagittari)
I come across a reference in Osprey about "In sicily the villein class, whether Lombard, greek, or Muslim, had to undertake specific local garrison duties". These are unarmored archers with bow and sidearm.
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Retrobannum Pedes (pl. Pedites) - General Levy Infantry
The tier 1 unit from the cities. I'm always partial to equipping them with shield, spear, no armor and limited helmets (if any). You could make them wield a mix of spear and swords/falchions/axes/ect but I'm not sure on that.
Militiae Urbanus / Militiae Commune Spearmen (Latin - Hastatus, pl. Hastati) - Communal Militia Spearmen
Gambeson clad Spearmen.
Militiae Urbanus / Militiae Commune Crossbowmen (latin - Balistare, pl. Balistarii) - Communal Militia Crossbowmen
Unarmored crossbowmen, no shield.
Serviens (pl. Servientes) Spearmen - Professional Spearmen
Mail Armored spearmen
Serviens (pl. Servientes) Crossbowmen - Professional Crossbowmen
Gambeson, crossbow, probably no shield
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Serviens Eques (pl. Servientes Equites) de Lombards - (South) Lombard Mounted Sergeants
Since the Monreale Cathedral depicts cavalry completely unarmored, and there's references to the Lombard Feudal system giving light cavalry, these guys are completely unarmored cavalry (Probably some helmets for measure) with shield, spear, sidearm, maybe javelins.
Vavassin Eques (pl. Vavassini Equites) - "Lesser Vassal Horsemen"
It's always tricky to bridge the gap between sergeant and knight, and I'll admit I couldn't find a ton of resources to back up the references to Vavassini (Though I did a bit more for Vavassor, which is the superior Knights at tier 3 and 4). Either way, they'll be clad in gambesons and such.
Miles Minores de Normanni / Normanni Miles Minores / Secundi Miles de Normanni - "Junior Knights"
The second top echelon knights. Clad in mail hauberks of the 12th century and some of a more dated 11th century design.
Miles Majores de Normanni / Normanni Miles Majores / Primi Miles de Normanni - "Top Knights"
The top echelon knights. Clad in the best mail hauberks of the 12th century and some with scale or lamellar atop it in a Byzantine/Arab style.
NORMAN KINGDOM OF SICILY - Mercenary Units
Access to the universal Stipendiarii/Solidarius Crossbows, Infantry, Knights. You should probably also have any Maghrebi Berber mercenaries be available there too. This is where I'd have some North Italian Crossbowmen, who'll be well armed, armored, and skilled compared to any other crossbow rivals.
I'd consider maybe having a North Italic "Roster" available from the North Italian cities to anyone who seizes em. Would have spearmen, aformentioned crossbowmen, and the city-borne knights that were big in North Italy.
NORMAN KINGDOM OF SICILY - Special Units
Jund Al-Siqilliyya Rammah: Sicilian Muslim "Levy/mercenary" spearmen (Tier 3 quality wise)
Will offer equipment ideas in full later. Right now they would be unarmored with spear, shield. Mix of plain turbans and turbaned helmets.
Jund Al-Siqilliyya Rumat: Sicilian Muslim "Levy/mercenary" Archers (tier 3 quality wise)
Will offer equipment ideas in full later. Right now they would be unarmored with composite bow, shield, long knife/short sword. Mix of plain turbans and turbaned helmets.
Jund Al-Siqilliyya Al-Khass Rajjala: Sicilian Muslim "Bodyguard" infantry (Tier 4 quality wise)
Will offer equipment ideas in full later. Right now they would be wearing metal lamellar chestpieces or short sleeved mail shirts, with shield, short sword, javelins, and turbaned helmet/plain helmets.
Jund Al-Siqilliyya Al-Khass Rumat: Sicilian Muslim "Bodyguard" archers (Tier 4 quality wise).
Metal lamellar chestpieces or short sleeved mail shirts. Shields, short swords, bows, and helmets.
Jund Al-Siqilliyya Faris: Sicilian Muslim "Levy/mercenary" Light horse archers (Tier 3 quality wise)
I am not 100% certain if the guard corps remained after the Norman period, but I am 95% certain they would have. Frederick II was notorious for being rather "Secular" (putting it nicely) and having amiable feelings for his Saracen subjects. There's no reason he wouldn't have maintained the Norman practice of having one of their two guard corps being Muslims (the other being regular Knights). Without spending too much time having to look it up, I see Osprey depicting a Sicilian horse archer and foot bodyguard for the German Sicilians circa 1240.
Jund Al-Siqilliyya Al-Khass Faris: Sicilian Muslim "bodyguard" cavalry (Tier 4 quality wise)
The Monreale Catherdral in Palermo (1174-1189) has cavalry depicted in lamellar or scale armor, no helmet. We could assume for them to be Muslims and to represent the small elite corps of mounted archers used by the Norman Kings. They would have shield, sidearm, bow, horse, and probably turbaned helmets? Or just turbans.
Will offer equipment ideas in full later. Right now they would be unarmored with spear, shield. Mix of plain turbans and turbaned helmets.
Jund Al-Siqilliyya Rumat: Sicilian Muslim "Levy/mercenary" Archers (tier 3 quality wise)
Will offer equipment ideas in full later. Right now they would be unarmored with composite bow, shield, long knife/short sword. Mix of plain turbans and turbaned helmets.
Jund Al-Siqilliyya Al-Khass Rajjala: Sicilian Muslim "Bodyguard" infantry (Tier 4 quality wise)
Will offer equipment ideas in full later. Right now they would be wearing metal lamellar chestpieces or short sleeved mail shirts, with shield, short sword, javelins, and turbaned helmet/plain helmets.
Jund Al-Siqilliyya Al-Khass Rumat: Sicilian Muslim "Bodyguard" archers (Tier 4 quality wise).
Metal lamellar chestpieces or short sleeved mail shirts. Shields, short swords, bows, and helmets.
Jund Al-Siqilliyya Faris: Sicilian Muslim "Levy/mercenary" Light horse archers (Tier 3 quality wise)
I am not 100% certain if the guard corps remained after the Norman period, but I am 95% certain they would have. Frederick II was notorious for being rather "Secular" (putting it nicely) and having amiable feelings for his Saracen subjects. There's no reason he wouldn't have maintained the Norman practice of having one of their two guard corps being Muslims (the other being regular Knights). Without spending too much time having to look it up, I see Osprey depicting a Sicilian horse archer and foot bodyguard for the German Sicilians circa 1240.
Jund Al-Siqilliyya Al-Khass Faris: Sicilian Muslim "bodyguard" cavalry (Tier 4 quality wise)
The Monreale Catherdral in Palermo (1174-1189) has cavalry depicted in lamellar or scale armor, no helmet. We could assume for them to be Muslims and to represent the small elite corps of mounted archers used by the Norman Kings. They would have shield, sidearm, bow, horse, and probably turbaned helmets? Or just turbans.
Outlawed
Sergeant Knight
Double post is required because an important event has occurred.
We have a new team member!
Welcome to Thrak, an addition to our modeler count!
He has some good work on weaponry and helmets, he also said he can rigg!
I have asked him for a sample. Here is some of his work!
Welcome to the team!
We have a new team member!
Welcome to Thrak, an addition to our modeler count!
He has some good work on weaponry and helmets, he also said he can rigg!
I have asked him for a sample. Here is some of his work!
Thrak said:That is my model
Welcome to the team!
Mandalorian
Arabs invaded Sicily in 652 and stayed end of 1072. There must be some arab and islamic influence.Outlawed said:
Mandalorian
They have Norman Knıghts?
Outlawed
Sergeant Knight
Mandalorian said:They have Norman Knıghts?
Yes lol, that is what I expected in the special line, NOT an Arabic named troop. That's why I was surprised xD
EDIT
Also Sahran, the mercenary troops for Italy, due to the nature of the divided towns/urban centers makes perfect sense.
For example, of The Byzantines were to develop into Italy, the mercenary troops there would be the Italic roster that also stands as the local roster for the Italic factions.
Sahran
Grandmaster Knight
Muwahhidun Empire will have local troops split between an Andalusian branch and a Maghrebi branch, available in their respective regions. Maghrebis are poorer equipped but more numerous (and I would consider having a Maghrebi soldier be superior in stats to his Andalusian counterpart except for the top 2 infantry and cavalry tiers. That way the Maghrebi rank and file is superior to the Andalusian rank and file, but the Andalusian professionals and nobles are superior in gear and stats.
MUWAHHIDUN EMPIRE - Local ANDALUSIAN Units
MUWAHHIDUN EMPIRE - Local MAGHREBI Units
MUWAHHIDUN EMPIRE - Mercenary Units
LEFT
MUWAHHIDUN EMPIRE - Special Units
RIGHT
MUWAHHIDUN EMPIRE - NOTES
MUWAHHIDUN EMPIRE - Local ANDALUSIAN Units
http://balagan.org.uk/war/reconquista/order-of-battle/andalusian.htm
Mujahids Al-Andalus Infantry: Religious fanatic volunteers
Armed with a hodgepodge of weaponry, shields are optional(?)
Hashid Al-Andalus Spearmen: Unarmored Volunteer Spearmen
Volunteer Spearmen.
Ajnad Al-Andalus Spearmen: "Militia" Spearmen
The Ajnad being the plural of Jund, the 'army', though in Andalus usually had an association of being a militia/conscription liable service.
Murtaziqa Al-Andalus Spearmen: Armored Spearmen
Note: Ajnad and Murtaziqa Infantry will be kept only if the Iberian Christians get equivalent melee infantry
Hashid Al-Andalus Archers: Volunteer Bowmen
No armor, bow and sidearm
Ajnad Al-Andalus Archers: Militia Bowmen
Soft armor, bow, sidearm, shield is a maybe
Murtaziqa Al-Andalus Crossbowmen
Mail shirts, shields, swords, crossbows
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Faris (Fursan) Al-Mujahids - Light Jihadist Cavalry
Mujahids being mujahiduns, religious ghazi or volunteers. Unarmored javelin cavalry. Might switch with the Al-Hashid.
Faris (Fursan) Al-Hashid - Light militia cavalry
Hashid seems like the counterpart of the Maghrebi Hushud, except with less of a conscripted undertone. They are apparently volunteers of a single campaign, not conscripts per se? Would be spear and shield padded cloth clad horsemen, maybe with javelins. Might switch with Al-hashid.
Murtaziqa Al-Andalus Faris (pl. Fursan) - Professional cavalry
Essentially Mounted Sergeants or lower class 'knights' in Andalusia. Mail shirts, lances, shields.
Sharif (pl. Ashraf) Al-Andalus Faris (pl. Fursan) - Nobles
Knights. Mail hauberks, lances, shields.
Mujahids Al-Andalus Infantry: Religious fanatic volunteers
Armed with a hodgepodge of weaponry, shields are optional(?)
Hashid Al-Andalus Spearmen: Unarmored Volunteer Spearmen
Volunteer Spearmen.
Ajnad Al-Andalus Spearmen: "Militia" Spearmen
The Ajnad being the plural of Jund, the 'army', though in Andalus usually had an association of being a militia/conscription liable service.
Murtaziqa Al-Andalus Spearmen: Armored Spearmen
Note: Ajnad and Murtaziqa Infantry will be kept only if the Iberian Christians get equivalent melee infantry
Hashid Al-Andalus Archers: Volunteer Bowmen
No armor, bow and sidearm
Ajnad Al-Andalus Archers: Militia Bowmen
Soft armor, bow, sidearm, shield is a maybe
Murtaziqa Al-Andalus Crossbowmen
Mail shirts, shields, swords, crossbows
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Faris (Fursan) Al-Mujahids - Light Jihadist Cavalry
Mujahids being mujahiduns, religious ghazi or volunteers. Unarmored javelin cavalry. Might switch with the Al-Hashid.
Faris (Fursan) Al-Hashid - Light militia cavalry
Hashid seems like the counterpart of the Maghrebi Hushud, except with less of a conscripted undertone. They are apparently volunteers of a single campaign, not conscripts per se? Would be spear and shield padded cloth clad horsemen, maybe with javelins. Might switch with Al-hashid.
Murtaziqa Al-Andalus Faris (pl. Fursan) - Professional cavalry
Essentially Mounted Sergeants or lower class 'knights' in Andalusia. Mail shirts, lances, shields.
Sharif (pl. Ashraf) Al-Andalus Faris (pl. Fursan) - Nobles
Knights. Mail hauberks, lances, shields.
MUWAHHIDUN EMPIRE - Local MAGHREBI Units
Hushud Al-Barbar Skirmishers - "Levy Slingers/Javelineers"
Hushud being conscripts or levies of a specific campaign. Can either keep slingers and javelineers in the same unit, split them up, or go with just javelineers.
Hushud Al-Barbar Spearmen - "Levy Spearmen"
Hushud being conscripts or levies of a specific campaign. Spear and shield, could give them long spears and no shields.
Mutatawwi'a Spearmen - "Volunteer Spearmen"
I see these guys as a step above a conscript, being something of a middle of the road troop with poor equipment. Shield, spear, maybe some helmets.
Murtaziqa (Al-Masmuda) Spearmen - "Top Notch Spearmen"
Representing the professional regulars of the Muwahhidun confederacy. They would wear leather or felt armor, maybe a mail shirt thrown in, but more importantly be of great skill and ability.
Mutatawwi'a Infantry - Javelineer swordsmen
I see these guys as being a step up above a conscript, being something of a middle of the road troop while being poor in equipment.
Hushud Al-Barbar Archers - "Levy Bowmen"
Hushud being conscripts or levies of a specific campaign. Bowmen, yaaay!
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Mutatawwi'a Al-Barbar Faris (pl. Fawaris): Volunteer Cavalry
Cheap, poorest quality cavalry but good at skirmishing. No armor and armed with shield, spear, sword(?), javelin.
Faris (pl. Fursan) Al-Muqta'un Barbar: Feudal cavalry
The Muwahhiduns gave iqta's to tribal sheiks and their followers in exchange for military service, so these guys are basically feudal cavalrymen. No armor, or just light armor, shield, spear/lance, sword, javelins.
Murtaziqa Al-Masmuda Al-Khayl: Professional cavalry
Light armor (Quilted or leather or felt), shield, spear/lance, sword, javelins.
Sheikh (pl. Shaykh) Al-Muwahhidun Al-Khayl: Muwahhidun Nobles
Mail armor, shield, spear/lance, sword, javelins
Hushud being conscripts or levies of a specific campaign. Can either keep slingers and javelineers in the same unit, split them up, or go with just javelineers.
Hushud Al-Barbar Spearmen - "Levy Spearmen"
Hushud being conscripts or levies of a specific campaign. Spear and shield, could give them long spears and no shields.
Mutatawwi'a Spearmen - "Volunteer Spearmen"
I see these guys as a step above a conscript, being something of a middle of the road troop with poor equipment. Shield, spear, maybe some helmets.
Murtaziqa (Al-Masmuda) Spearmen - "Top Notch Spearmen"
Representing the professional regulars of the Muwahhidun confederacy. They would wear leather or felt armor, maybe a mail shirt thrown in, but more importantly be of great skill and ability.
Mutatawwi'a Infantry - Javelineer swordsmen
I see these guys as being a step up above a conscript, being something of a middle of the road troop while being poor in equipment.
Hushud Al-Barbar Archers - "Levy Bowmen"
Hushud being conscripts or levies of a specific campaign. Bowmen, yaaay!
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Mutatawwi'a Al-Barbar Faris (pl. Fawaris): Volunteer Cavalry
Cheap, poorest quality cavalry but good at skirmishing. No armor and armed with shield, spear, sword(?), javelin.
Faris (pl. Fursan) Al-Muqta'un Barbar: Feudal cavalry
The Muwahhiduns gave iqta's to tribal sheiks and their followers in exchange for military service, so these guys are basically feudal cavalrymen. No armor, or just light armor, shield, spear/lance, sword, javelins.
Murtaziqa Al-Masmuda Al-Khayl: Professional cavalry
Light armor (Quilted or leather or felt), shield, spear/lance, sword, javelins.
Sheikh (pl. Shaykh) Al-Muwahhidun Al-Khayl: Muwahhidun Nobles
Mail armor, shield, spear/lance, sword, javelins
MUWAHHIDUN EMPIRE - Mercenary Units
LEFT
Murabitun Horsemen -
Deserters/renegades/residual leftovers of the Almoravid dynasty. It's a transparent effort to get some of those ******** awesome lamt shields and ominous veiling ingame. But it's based in reality, since they are attributed to the Muwahhidun's armies at least in the earlier period.
Mutatawwi'a Al-Badu Faris: Lancers
Bedouin horsemen. They'll be unarmored, with lance, shield, swords.
Sharif Al-Badu Faris: Medium Lancers
Bedouin Nobles. Light mail, lance, shield, swords.
Deserters/renegades/residual leftovers of the Almoravid dynasty. It's a transparent effort to get some of those ******** awesome lamt shields and ominous veiling ingame. But it's based in reality, since they are attributed to the Muwahhidun's armies at least in the earlier period.
Mutatawwi'a Al-Badu Faris: Lancers
Bedouin horsemen. They'll be unarmored, with lance, shield, swords.
Sharif Al-Badu Faris: Medium Lancers
Bedouin Nobles. Light mail, lance, shield, swords.
MUWAHHIDUN EMPIRE - Special Units
RIGHT
Abd (pl. Abid) Al-Makhzan - Slaves of the Government/State
Black slave warriors, generally I'd see as being more elite and stately than just a bunch of poor slaves gathered together as cannon fodder. How they'd be equipped is tricky, but I'm favorable to quilted garb and helmets. For weaponry, I want to say spears but with how many spearmen they already have, I'm more favorable to a sword and shield. Probably also an archer version. They'll be unarmored, but of high skill/health.
Al-Haras Al-Sudani Infantry - Black Guard Infantry
Clad in quilted garb, they'll be the regal corps of Abd for the Caliph and his highest officers. Sword, shield, javelins, maybe spears too.
Hasham Al-Nasara Al-Khayl: Christian Guard knights
As I understand it, the Muwahhiduns inherited and kept around the Murabitun's Christian guard for a time, abolished them, and re-instated them after the disaster at Las Navas de Tolosa. Given this is merely 2 decades after the emergence of the Muwahhiduns and practically contemporary to the final annihilation of the Murabituns as a political entity. They'd be identical to a Christian Knight - heavy cavalry!
Black slave warriors, generally I'd see as being more elite and stately than just a bunch of poor slaves gathered together as cannon fodder. How they'd be equipped is tricky, but I'm favorable to quilted garb and helmets. For weaponry, I want to say spears but with how many spearmen they already have, I'm more favorable to a sword and shield. Probably also an archer version. They'll be unarmored, but of high skill/health.
Al-Haras Al-Sudani Infantry - Black Guard Infantry
Clad in quilted garb, they'll be the regal corps of Abd for the Caliph and his highest officers. Sword, shield, javelins, maybe spears too.
Hasham Al-Nasara Al-Khayl: Christian Guard knights
As I understand it, the Muwahhiduns inherited and kept around the Murabitun's Christian guard for a time, abolished them, and re-instated them after the disaster at Las Navas de Tolosa. Given this is merely 2 decades after the emergence of the Muwahhiduns and practically contemporary to the final annihilation of the Murabituns as a political entity. They'd be identical to a Christian Knight - heavy cavalry!
MUWAHHIDUN EMPIRE - NOTES
I was reading David Nicolle's general book on Middle Eastern military in this period and one comment he made was rather interesting. It was about the tribal nature of berber military organization allowing for large armies, since in theory every tribal free man was liable for service (so was the case in Europe, but it was much more often 'ignored' or otherwise unavailable due to feudalism). A case example was a berber group who were able to raise 12,000 or so cavalry before they were defeated by the Murabituns. Granted that's basically a century before our period and the Muwahhidun Masmuda were sedentary mountain folk rather than pastoralists.
It still suggests a possibility of really large armies, which is a good accomodation given the incredibly light nature of their Maghrebi troops. This might not always be true since I am sure there's commentary mentioning Muwahhidun armies were often on the small side or comparable to the Iberian's. But it's still food for thought - in our case, I'd campaign more behind an ability to field massive Hushud and Mutatawwi'a infantry rather than cavalry.
Given the Muwahhidun originated from the Mountains of Morocco, amongst the Masmuda, it makes sense that infantry is their strongpoint and I seem to recall the Zanata being much more associated with being horsemen and pastoral vis-a-vis the sedentary Masmuda.
Mushud/Hushud/Husud - all terms that denote being a conscript or a levy for a specific campaign.
Mutatawwi'a - religious volunteers. I see them as a superior version of a Mushud/Hushud/Husud.
It still suggests a possibility of really large armies, which is a good accomodation given the incredibly light nature of their Maghrebi troops. This might not always be true since I am sure there's commentary mentioning Muwahhidun armies were often on the small side or comparable to the Iberian's. But it's still food for thought - in our case, I'd campaign more behind an ability to field massive Hushud and Mutatawwi'a infantry rather than cavalry.
Given the Muwahhidun originated from the Mountains of Morocco, amongst the Masmuda, it makes sense that infantry is their strongpoint and I seem to recall the Zanata being much more associated with being horsemen and pastoral vis-a-vis the sedentary Masmuda.
Mushud/Hushud/Husud - all terms that denote being a conscript or a levy for a specific campaign.
Mutatawwi'a - religious volunteers. I see them as a superior version of a Mushud/Hushud/Husud.
Winterz
Sergeant Knight
Well I understand you have been having difficulties and well if you need any hand with the research, more exactly in
Portugal's theme I can be really helpful since it's were I was born and well let's just say that when we're in childhood our memory is a way bigger pot and the national history is still fresh in here. I'm also a good researcher through the internet...
If you need any help feel free to ask.
Well the mod is/was actually turning pretty well although I'm getting confused why is everyone doing mods about exactly same time...there's about 20 warband mods for the 11/12/13th centuries already. Anyways , good work.
Thanks.
Portugal's theme I can be really helpful since it's were I was born and well let's just say that when we're in childhood our memory is a way bigger pot and the national history is still fresh in here. I'm also a good researcher through the internet...
If you need any help feel free to ask.
Well the mod is/was actually turning pretty well although I'm getting confused why is everyone doing mods about exactly same time...there's about 20 warband mods for the 11/12/13th centuries already. Anyways , good work.
Thanks.
Chickenator
Recruit
Sahran said:Muwahhidun Empire will have local troops split between an Andalusian branch and a Maghrebi branch, available in their respective regions. Maghrebis are poorer equipped but more numerous (and I would consider having a Maghrebi soldier be superior in stats to his Andalusian counterpart except for the top 2 infantry and cavalry tiers. That way the Maghrebi rank and file is superior to the Andalusian rank and file, but the Andalusian professionals and nobles are superior in gear and stats.
MUWAHHIDUN EMPIRE - Local ANDALUSIAN Units
http://balagan.org.uk/war/reconquista/order-of-battle/andalusian.htm
Mujahids Al-Andalus Infantry: Religious fanatic volunteers
Armed with a hodgepodge of weaponry, shields are optional(?)
Hashid Al-Andalus Spearmen: Unarmored Volunteer Spearmen
Volunteer Spearmen.
Ajnad Al-Andalus Spearmen: "Militia" Spearmen
The Ajnad being the plural of Jund, the 'army', though in Andalus usually had an association of being a militia/conscription liable service.
Murtaziqa Al-Andalus Spearmen: Armored Spearmen
Note: Ajnad and Murtaziqa Infantry will be kept only if the Iberian Christians get equivalent melee infantry
Hashid Al-Andalus Archers: Volunteer Bowmen
No armor, bow and sidearm
Ajnad Al-Andalus Archers: Militia Bowmen
Soft armor, bow, sidearm, shield is a maybe
Murtaziqa Al-Andalus Crossbowmen
Mail shirts, shields, swords, crossbows
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Faris (Fursan) Al-Mujahids - Light Jihadist Cavalry
Mujahids being mujahiduns, religious ghazi or volunteers. Unarmored javelin cavalry. Might switch with the Al-Hashid.
Faris (Fursan) Al-Hashid - Light militia cavalry
Hashid seems like the counterpart of the Maghrebi Hushud, except with less of a conscripted undertone. They are apparently volunteers of a single campaign, not conscripts per se? Would be spear and shield padded cloth clad horsemen, maybe with javelins. Might switch with Al-hashid.
Murtaziqa Al-Andalus Faris (pl. Fursan) - Professional cavalry
Essentially Mounted Sergeants or lower class 'knights' in Andalusia. Mail shirts, lances, shields.
Sharif (pl. Ashraf) Al-Andalus Faris (pl. Fursan) - Nobles
Knights. Mail hauberks, lances, shields.
MUWAHHIDUN EMPIRE - Local MAGHREBI Units
Hushud Al-Barbar Skirmishers - "Levy Slingers/Javelineers"
Hushud being conscripts or levies of a specific campaign. Can either keep slingers and javelineers in the same unit, split them up, or go with just javelineers.
Hushud Al-Barbar Spearmen - "Levy Spearmen"
Hushud being conscripts or levies of a specific campaign. Spear and shield, could give them long spears and no shields.
Mutatawwi'a Spearmen - "Volunteer Spearmen"
I see these guys as a step above a conscript, being something of a middle of the road troop with poor equipment. Shield, spear, maybe some helmets.
Murtaziqa (Al-Masmuda) Spearmen - "Top Notch Spearmen"
Representing the professional regulars of the Muwahhidun confederacy. They would wear leather or felt armor, maybe a mail shirt thrown in, but more importantly be of great skill and ability.
Mutatawwi'a Infantry - Javelineer swordsmen
I see these guys as being a step up above a conscript, being something of a middle of the road troop while being poor in equipment.
Hushud Al-Barbar Archers - "Levy Bowmen"
Hushud being conscripts or levies of a specific campaign. Bowmen, yaaay!
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Mutatawwi'a Al-Barbar Faris (pl. Fawaris): Volunteer Cavalry
Cheap, poorest quality cavalry but good at skirmishing. No armor and armed with shield, spear, sword(?), javelin.
Faris (pl. Fursan) Al-Muqta'un Barbar: Feudal cavalry
The Muwahhiduns gave iqta's to tribal sheiks and their followers in exchange for military service, so these guys are basically feudal cavalrymen. No armor, or just light armor, shield, spear/lance, sword, javelins.
Murtaziqa Al-Masmuda Al-Khayl: Professional cavalry
Light armor (Quilted or leather or felt), shield, spear/lance, sword, javelins.
Sheikh (pl. Shaykh) Al-Muwahhidun Al-Khayl: Muwahhidun Nobles
Mail armor, shield, spear/lance, sword, javelins
MUWAHHIDUN EMPIRE - Mercenary Units
LEFT
Murabitun Horsemen -
Deserters/renegades/residual leftovers of the Almoravid dynasty. It's a transparent effort to get some of those ******** awesome lamt shields and ominous veiling ingame. But it's based in reality, since they are attributed to the Muwahhidun's armies at least in the earlier period.
Mutatawwi'a Al-Badu Faris: Lancers
Bedouin horsemen. They'll be unarmored, with lance, shield, swords.
Sharif Al-Badu Faris: Medium Lancers
Bedouin Nobles. Light mail, lance, shield, swords.
MUWAHHIDUN EMPIRE - Special Units
RIGHT
Abd (pl. Abid) Al-Makhzan - Slaves of the Government/State
Black slave warriors, generally I'd see as being more elite and stately than just a bunch of poor slaves gathered together as cannon fodder. How they'd be equipped is tricky, but I'm favorable to quilted garb and helmets. For weaponry, I want to say spears but with how many spearmen they already have, I'm more favorable to a sword and shield. Probably also an archer version. They'll be unarmored, but of high skill/health.
Al-Haras Al-Sudani Infantry - Black Guard Infantry
Clad in quilted garb, they'll be the regal corps of Abd for the Caliph and his highest officers. Sword, shield, javelins, maybe spears too.
Hasham Al-Nasara Al-Khayl: Christian Guard knights
As I understand it, the Muwahhiduns inherited and kept around the Murabitun's Christian guard for a time, abolished them, and re-instated them after the disaster at Las Navas de Tolosa. Given this is merely 2 decades after the emergence of the Muwahhiduns and practically contemporary to the final annihilation of the Murabituns as a political entity. They'd be identical to a Christian Knight - heavy cavalry!
MUWAHHIDUN EMPIRE - NOTES
I was reading David Nicolle's general book on Middle Eastern military in this period and one comment he made was rather interesting. It was about the tribal nature of berber military organization allowing for large armies, since in theory every tribal free man was liable for service (so was the case in Europe, but it was much more often 'ignored' or otherwise unavailable due to feudalism). A case example was a berber group who were able to raise 12,000 or so cavalry before they were defeated by the Murabituns. Granted that's basically a century before our period and the Muwahhidun Masmuda were sedentary mountain folk rather than pastoralists.
It still suggests a possibility of really large armies, which is a good accomodation given the incredibly light nature of their Maghrebi troops. This might not always be true since I am sure there's commentary mentioning Muwahhidun armies were often on the small side or comparable to the Iberian's. But it's still food for thought - in our case, I'd campaign more behind an ability to field massive Hushud and Mutatawwi'a infantry rather than cavalry.
Given the Muwahhidun originated from the Mountains of Morocco, amongst the Masmuda, it makes sense that infantry is their strongpoint and I seem to recall the Zanata being much more associated with being horsemen and pastoral vis-a-vis the sedentary Masmuda.
Mushud/Hushud/Husud - all terms that denote being a conscript or a levy for a specific campaign.
Mutatawwi'a - religious volunteers. I see them as a superior version of a Mushud/Hushud/Husud.
Muwah... what?
Sahran
Grandmaster Knight
Muwahhidun is the term the Almohads would have referred to themselves as. It means "Unitarians" or "People of Monotheism", as credentials to their rather strict theocracy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almohad_Caliphate Almohad is the European corruption of the term, same way Almoravid was a corruption of the Al-Murabit movement.
Also Winterz: Anything on Portuguese military organization. Like if they had a strong feudal structure, what militiamen were called or how the militia was raised/organized.
If I don't get someone who is an expert on medieval portuguese, I'm going to just do the Portuguese roster in Latin. Likewise, without any solid information they'll just get a "Generic Iberian" designed roster - sergeants, senior and junior knights, urban militia, ect.
Also Winterz: Anything on Portuguese military organization. Like if they had a strong feudal structure, what militiamen were called or how the militia was raised/organized.
If I don't get someone who is an expert on medieval portuguese, I'm going to just do the Portuguese roster in Latin. Likewise, without any solid information they'll just get a "Generic Iberian" designed roster - sergeants, senior and junior knights, urban militia, ect.
Outlawed
Sergeant Knight
Sahran, its so good to have some freaking awesome-sauce back.
You've totally lifted my spirits for this!
Pretty brilliant stuff. I should be able to update everything before the weekend. I'm totally surprised (and impressed) how quick you can produce this stuff. Fantastic dude.
You've totally lifted my spirits for this!
Pretty brilliant stuff. I should be able to update everything before the weekend. I'm totally surprised (and impressed) how quick you can produce this stuff. Fantastic dude.
