This post is fairly long, it might take more than one sitting to read through and understand.
Ok, I've decided to put all my ideas for foot combat into one post. These suggestions are inspired in part by Rathyr's suggestions, and from other suggestions seen on the forum. They all cover details involving various aspects of foot combat.
There are other things i'd like to talk about, but I decided to omit them for brevity's sake.
Here's a brief rundown.
A change to attack speed: draw back time
Quick attacks and power attacks
Other influences on draw back time
Shields, blocking and the parry skill
Passive defense
Secondary attacks
A change to attack speed: draw back time
In the current game, slow weapons look ridiculous. They are swung quite slowly all the way through the attack. In real life, a heavy weapon would be swung quite quickly, but it would take some time to get it ready to swing again. For example, a sledgehammer is quite difficult to swing rapidly, even if individual hits may be made with quite a lot of speed.
This is what i'm proposing: Make the actual swing speed the same independant of weapon. Swing speed is determined only by character strength, power strike and weapon proficiency.
Now, after the swing, the weapon takes a certain amount of time to get back to the position where you can swing it again. This is what I call draw back time. It's the time it takes from when you first press the left mouse button and hold it down, to when the weapon is drawn back to its maximum and is ready to attack. Basically it's the time it takes to ready your weapon for any directional strike.
It's this draw back time that weapon speed affects. A sword's draw back time is shorter than an axe's, which is in turn shorter than a maul's. Draw back time is also affected by strength and weapon proficiency.
This way, a sword will swing just as fast as a maul will, but the sword will be able to get more hits in in the long run.
Quick attacks and power attacks
This idea is almost directly borrowed from the game Dark messiah. If you've played it, you'll know what I mean.
Basically, just tapping the mouse button performs quick but somewhat ineffectual attacks, while holding the mousebutton down will release a more powerful attack.
But while in Dark messiah these two attacks were quite different, in this suggestion they are just variations of the same feature.
When you press the mousebutton down, your weapon is pulled back in the direction of the on-screen arrow (as it does currently). The weapon takes a small amount of time (about half a second to a second) to pull back fully. If you release the mousebutton prematurely, you perform an underpowered quick attack. If you release it after it's been drawn back fully, you'll perform a normal 'power attack'.
Note, that when I say a 'quick attack', i don't mean the swing of the weapon is quicker, rather the opposite is true. Because the weapon hasn't had a chance to build up momentum like it would in a proper attack, it actually swings slower than a power attack. But it is called quick attack, because it can be done more quickly from a stand still, and the weapon swings more frequently.
Other influences on draw back time
Aside from the speed of the weapon and the skill of the player, there are other environmental effects to draw back time. The nature of the object you hit can affect the draw back time on your next attack.
I have experience using a 10 pound hammer on a farm. When you hit something solid with a 10 pound hammer, the hammer tends to bounce back. It usually bounces back into a position where you can easily swing it again. As long as you're hitting your target, you can keep up a fairly decent rate of blows with a sledgehammer. However when you miss, you lose your balance, and it takes a small while to regain it again. Plus, it looks embarrasing. I have found that when I miss entirely, i often have to spin around on my axis to regain my balance.
Now, let's apply this concept to the game. If you hit something hard during your swing (like plate armour or a shield), your weapon bounces back, and less draw back time is required to get the weapon back fully on the next attack.
If you miss completely, or are just swinging your sword around in air, the default time is required to draw your weapon back.
If your weapon gets parried by someone with high parry skill (more on this later), then your weapon is pushed forwards, and even more time is required to draw it back again.
It's different still, when a weapon hits something soft, like people. If hit with enough force, the weapon can become embedded in the person. All this means is that the weapon stops in the person, and has to be given a yank in the opposite direction to free it. I think this could be accomplished by just reversing the animation at that point and speeding it up/slowing it down to make it look like a proper yank.
Weapons embedding themselves in people would be somewhat rare, it would only happen if you did, say, over 35 damage to someone.
Now, this penalty to draw back time only applies to the next attack, if the next attack is performed immediately afterwards. Let's say it normally takes you .5 of a second to ready your axe again after a hit. If you miss, you have a .3 second penalty to your next shot if you perform it immediately afterwards. So next attack takes you .8 seconds to ready. If you wait .2 of a second before you attack again, it takes .6 seconds (.5 seconds plus the .1 second penalty left over) to ready your attack. If you wait .3 seconds or longer, it takes your usual .5 seconds to attack. Note that this .3 seconds is enforced; if you decided to do a quick attack after missing, you'd still have to wait .3 seconds to do so. Understand? I hope so.
Hitting/missing/parrying affects different weapons to a different extent. A sword would have a small missing penalty compared to a sledgehammer. I propose that a new weapon stat, called balance, be added. I suppose you could define balance as the position of the centre of mass on the weapon. A sword has a centre of mass close to the crossguard, whereas an axe has a centre of mass close to the axeblade. All this stat actually does, is determine the hitting bonus and the missing/getting parried penalty of the weapon. The higher the 'balance' stat, the further out the centre of mass is from the handle, and the larger the penalty if the weapon misses. COnversely, the higher the balance number, the higher the bonus when the weapon hits something solid. This would make a weapon such as an axe quite effective against a shield, because it would do damaging blows while keeping up a high rate of attack.
Shields, blocking and the parry skill
So far, all i've talked about is the weapon during attack. Similar effects come into play when blocking. If miss an enemy with your axe as above, it will take .3 seconds before you'll be able to block with your weapon again. If you had a shield, there would be no such penalty. Similar effects come into play depending on your skill in parrying and the force which your opponent hits you with.
Let's define the weapon impact 'force' as being the weapon damage at impact. Except, unless it actually hits you, it does no damage.
Whenever you block an attack with your shield, your shield gets pushed away from you, and it takes a small amount of time to bring it back. The distance it gets knocked away by, and the time it takes to get it back into position varies with several things, namely the amount of force (damage) the attack hit with, the shield speed, and the parry skill of the blocker. A similar thing happens with parrying with a weapon. If you parry an attack with your weapon, because the weapon gets knocked out the way there is a small delay before you can attack or block again. Again, this depends on the force of the attack, the weapon weight and speed, and the parry skill.
One important thing to observe here, is that the weapon is independant from the shield. If the shield has been knocked back, the weapon is still free to attack with no penalty. If the weapon was parried away, and there's a severe time penalty to bring it back, you can still use your shield quite freely. This makes using a shield preferential to not using one, because a weapon has to perform both functions of attack and defense. If your weapon is parried or knocked out of the way by a large force, you have nothing to defend yourself with for that brief moment.
Ok, let's explain this parry skill. Basically, it replaces the current shield skill, and makes it much more useful and functional. Putting points into this skill does the following:
Shields take less damage, shields recover faster from big hits and weapon parries recover faster after big hits. Also, as points are increased, blocks and parries get more responsive. While blocking, shields will actually try to deflect the incoming attacks, and so will weapons. At low parrying skill, the character will attempt to block as they do currently, by holding the weapon perpendicularly to the incoming attack. At higher skills, the character will make an active attempt at parrying to knock the weapon off course.
Ingame, what this means, is that the higher the parrying skill is, the longer the draw back penalty of the opponent's weapon. Basically you knock it off course and it takes them longer to recover. The effect occurs when defending both with shields and weapons, but it's more pronounced with weapons to make up for the disadvantages of not having a shield.
Passive defense
Rathyr's article: Passive Defense
My idea for passive defense is similar to rathyr's, except it plays less of a role in combat.
Basically, when in any combat situation (i.e. reasonably close to an enemy), you automatically hold your sword and shield in a neutral stance position, where both pieces of equipment are in a position of readiness in front of the body (as opposed to having your arms by your side)
Now, both the sword and shield have their own hitboxes, which means they can be hit by other weapons (or even projectiles in the shield's case). But when a character is idle, thay are not bracing their sword&shield for any impact. If an attack does hit a shield or weapon, it gets knocked out of the way. It gets knocked out of the way much further than it would if he was actively defending. So attacking a passive defender is simple. Just swing once to bat the gear out of the way, and the defender will be as vulnerable as a tortoise on it's back. Swing again and he's dead.
But what about if you hit a guy's weapon while he's shieldblocking, or hit his shield while he's attacking or preparing an attack? Something similar happens. The action itself isn't interrupted, but the object is pushed out of the way (more than if he was blocking, but less than if he was just passive), and if the person were to use the object immediately after, there would be a small delay.
Oh, and if two people hit each other's weapons simultaneously, they both bounce back, but otherwise no penalty is applied to anybody.
Secondary attacks
Destichado's article: Secondary attacks
Basically this is destichado's idea built into my model, with my embellishments. It isn't necessary to the rest of the article,
Ok, we've got the action key, default F, but I use shift (and i'll be referring to shift as the action key). This button isn't used much in battle, save for getting on and off horses. The action key is a good key to use for secondary attacks.
Pressing shift by itself does nothing. You have to press either attack or block while holding shift down to perform a secondary attack. You can also just press shift while holding down the attack or block button to perform a secondary attack.
A secondary attack is exactly what it says it is. If you press shift+attack, you do a bash with the pommel or hilt of your weapon, if you press shift+block, you do a shield bash. If you don't have a shield when you press shift+block, you just do a normal bash with the pommel or hilt. These attacks are quick, they do small (0-2) damage, but are used when enemies are closer than the minimum range for a proper attack, you want to push them back.
Draw back bonuses and penalties apply to these attacks as well. You can defend against them with a shield, but you can't with just a weapon.
Summary and gameplay effects
Make weapon swinging quick, but make the recovery time between swings variable based on skill, weapon etc.
You can perform lighter attacks by tapping the mouse button, or heavier attacks by holding it down.
the recovery time is dependant on what you hit, or how well it was parried by the enemy.
Weapons can get embedded in people.
Shields can also have a recovery time, during which they are not covering you properly.
Parry skill effects the recovery time of other people's attacks.
Secondary attacks are quick and designed to push enemies back. They are performed by pressing shift+attack/block.
There are several effects these ideas would have on the gameplay. First of all, it would break up the rather monotonous combat we have at present, and it would call for more judgement in battle, whether or not to give a strong attack, a weak attack or a bash to an enemy based on how well you and he are equipped. This adds variety to the game, and means there's always something more for experienced players to learn. It also makes the gameplay look more flash and realistic. The downside to this, is that it's harder for newbies to learn, unless they are taught it gradually. Another effect is that the outcome of a battle will be more skewed towards people with better stats. This is because attack strength, and parry skill affects how successful a block will be. A level 43 beserker with a bearded axe will be able to steamroll through a party of river pirates, because even if they are successful enough to block his first attack, their weapon will be knocked away so badly they won't have the time to resist the follow up attack.
I actually think this is a good thing, as it gives an added incentive to put skill into martial skill, and it also means a level 23 AI knight will actually be more than a match for a level 1 player-controlled squire.
I haven't really thought about the implications for horseback combat, but I don't think it would be much of a difference from this.
If anyone wants to discuss any points made in this, it would help if they labelled what they were discussing.
Ok, I've decided to put all my ideas for foot combat into one post. These suggestions are inspired in part by Rathyr's suggestions, and from other suggestions seen on the forum. They all cover details involving various aspects of foot combat.
There are other things i'd like to talk about, but I decided to omit them for brevity's sake.
Here's a brief rundown.
A change to attack speed: draw back time
Quick attacks and power attacks
Other influences on draw back time
Shields, blocking and the parry skill
Passive defense
Secondary attacks
A change to attack speed: draw back time
In the current game, slow weapons look ridiculous. They are swung quite slowly all the way through the attack. In real life, a heavy weapon would be swung quite quickly, but it would take some time to get it ready to swing again. For example, a sledgehammer is quite difficult to swing rapidly, even if individual hits may be made with quite a lot of speed.
This is what i'm proposing: Make the actual swing speed the same independant of weapon. Swing speed is determined only by character strength, power strike and weapon proficiency.
Now, after the swing, the weapon takes a certain amount of time to get back to the position where you can swing it again. This is what I call draw back time. It's the time it takes from when you first press the left mouse button and hold it down, to when the weapon is drawn back to its maximum and is ready to attack. Basically it's the time it takes to ready your weapon for any directional strike.
It's this draw back time that weapon speed affects. A sword's draw back time is shorter than an axe's, which is in turn shorter than a maul's. Draw back time is also affected by strength and weapon proficiency.
This way, a sword will swing just as fast as a maul will, but the sword will be able to get more hits in in the long run.
Quick attacks and power attacks
This idea is almost directly borrowed from the game Dark messiah. If you've played it, you'll know what I mean.
Basically, just tapping the mouse button performs quick but somewhat ineffectual attacks, while holding the mousebutton down will release a more powerful attack.
But while in Dark messiah these two attacks were quite different, in this suggestion they are just variations of the same feature.
When you press the mousebutton down, your weapon is pulled back in the direction of the on-screen arrow (as it does currently). The weapon takes a small amount of time (about half a second to a second) to pull back fully. If you release the mousebutton prematurely, you perform an underpowered quick attack. If you release it after it's been drawn back fully, you'll perform a normal 'power attack'.
Note, that when I say a 'quick attack', i don't mean the swing of the weapon is quicker, rather the opposite is true. Because the weapon hasn't had a chance to build up momentum like it would in a proper attack, it actually swings slower than a power attack. But it is called quick attack, because it can be done more quickly from a stand still, and the weapon swings more frequently.
Other influences on draw back time
Aside from the speed of the weapon and the skill of the player, there are other environmental effects to draw back time. The nature of the object you hit can affect the draw back time on your next attack.
I have experience using a 10 pound hammer on a farm. When you hit something solid with a 10 pound hammer, the hammer tends to bounce back. It usually bounces back into a position where you can easily swing it again. As long as you're hitting your target, you can keep up a fairly decent rate of blows with a sledgehammer. However when you miss, you lose your balance, and it takes a small while to regain it again. Plus, it looks embarrasing. I have found that when I miss entirely, i often have to spin around on my axis to regain my balance.
Now, let's apply this concept to the game. If you hit something hard during your swing (like plate armour or a shield), your weapon bounces back, and less draw back time is required to get the weapon back fully on the next attack.
If you miss completely, or are just swinging your sword around in air, the default time is required to draw your weapon back.
If your weapon gets parried by someone with high parry skill (more on this later), then your weapon is pushed forwards, and even more time is required to draw it back again.
It's different still, when a weapon hits something soft, like people. If hit with enough force, the weapon can become embedded in the person. All this means is that the weapon stops in the person, and has to be given a yank in the opposite direction to free it. I think this could be accomplished by just reversing the animation at that point and speeding it up/slowing it down to make it look like a proper yank.
Weapons embedding themselves in people would be somewhat rare, it would only happen if you did, say, over 35 damage to someone.
Now, this penalty to draw back time only applies to the next attack, if the next attack is performed immediately afterwards. Let's say it normally takes you .5 of a second to ready your axe again after a hit. If you miss, you have a .3 second penalty to your next shot if you perform it immediately afterwards. So next attack takes you .8 seconds to ready. If you wait .2 of a second before you attack again, it takes .6 seconds (.5 seconds plus the .1 second penalty left over) to ready your attack. If you wait .3 seconds or longer, it takes your usual .5 seconds to attack. Note that this .3 seconds is enforced; if you decided to do a quick attack after missing, you'd still have to wait .3 seconds to do so. Understand? I hope so.
Hitting/missing/parrying affects different weapons to a different extent. A sword would have a small missing penalty compared to a sledgehammer. I propose that a new weapon stat, called balance, be added. I suppose you could define balance as the position of the centre of mass on the weapon. A sword has a centre of mass close to the crossguard, whereas an axe has a centre of mass close to the axeblade. All this stat actually does, is determine the hitting bonus and the missing/getting parried penalty of the weapon. The higher the 'balance' stat, the further out the centre of mass is from the handle, and the larger the penalty if the weapon misses. COnversely, the higher the balance number, the higher the bonus when the weapon hits something solid. This would make a weapon such as an axe quite effective against a shield, because it would do damaging blows while keeping up a high rate of attack.
Shields, blocking and the parry skill
So far, all i've talked about is the weapon during attack. Similar effects come into play when blocking. If miss an enemy with your axe as above, it will take .3 seconds before you'll be able to block with your weapon again. If you had a shield, there would be no such penalty. Similar effects come into play depending on your skill in parrying and the force which your opponent hits you with.
Let's define the weapon impact 'force' as being the weapon damage at impact. Except, unless it actually hits you, it does no damage.
Whenever you block an attack with your shield, your shield gets pushed away from you, and it takes a small amount of time to bring it back. The distance it gets knocked away by, and the time it takes to get it back into position varies with several things, namely the amount of force (damage) the attack hit with, the shield speed, and the parry skill of the blocker. A similar thing happens with parrying with a weapon. If you parry an attack with your weapon, because the weapon gets knocked out the way there is a small delay before you can attack or block again. Again, this depends on the force of the attack, the weapon weight and speed, and the parry skill.
One important thing to observe here, is that the weapon is independant from the shield. If the shield has been knocked back, the weapon is still free to attack with no penalty. If the weapon was parried away, and there's a severe time penalty to bring it back, you can still use your shield quite freely. This makes using a shield preferential to not using one, because a weapon has to perform both functions of attack and defense. If your weapon is parried or knocked out of the way by a large force, you have nothing to defend yourself with for that brief moment.
Ok, let's explain this parry skill. Basically, it replaces the current shield skill, and makes it much more useful and functional. Putting points into this skill does the following:
Shields take less damage, shields recover faster from big hits and weapon parries recover faster after big hits. Also, as points are increased, blocks and parries get more responsive. While blocking, shields will actually try to deflect the incoming attacks, and so will weapons. At low parrying skill, the character will attempt to block as they do currently, by holding the weapon perpendicularly to the incoming attack. At higher skills, the character will make an active attempt at parrying to knock the weapon off course.
Ingame, what this means, is that the higher the parrying skill is, the longer the draw back penalty of the opponent's weapon. Basically you knock it off course and it takes them longer to recover. The effect occurs when defending both with shields and weapons, but it's more pronounced with weapons to make up for the disadvantages of not having a shield.
Passive defense
Rathyr's article: Passive Defense
My idea for passive defense is similar to rathyr's, except it plays less of a role in combat.
Basically, when in any combat situation (i.e. reasonably close to an enemy), you automatically hold your sword and shield in a neutral stance position, where both pieces of equipment are in a position of readiness in front of the body (as opposed to having your arms by your side)
Now, both the sword and shield have their own hitboxes, which means they can be hit by other weapons (or even projectiles in the shield's case). But when a character is idle, thay are not bracing their sword&shield for any impact. If an attack does hit a shield or weapon, it gets knocked out of the way. It gets knocked out of the way much further than it would if he was actively defending. So attacking a passive defender is simple. Just swing once to bat the gear out of the way, and the defender will be as vulnerable as a tortoise on it's back. Swing again and he's dead.
But what about if you hit a guy's weapon while he's shieldblocking, or hit his shield while he's attacking or preparing an attack? Something similar happens. The action itself isn't interrupted, but the object is pushed out of the way (more than if he was blocking, but less than if he was just passive), and if the person were to use the object immediately after, there would be a small delay.
Oh, and if two people hit each other's weapons simultaneously, they both bounce back, but otherwise no penalty is applied to anybody.
Secondary attacks
Destichado's article: Secondary attacks
Basically this is destichado's idea built into my model, with my embellishments. It isn't necessary to the rest of the article,
Ok, we've got the action key, default F, but I use shift (and i'll be referring to shift as the action key). This button isn't used much in battle, save for getting on and off horses. The action key is a good key to use for secondary attacks.
Pressing shift by itself does nothing. You have to press either attack or block while holding shift down to perform a secondary attack. You can also just press shift while holding down the attack or block button to perform a secondary attack.
A secondary attack is exactly what it says it is. If you press shift+attack, you do a bash with the pommel or hilt of your weapon, if you press shift+block, you do a shield bash. If you don't have a shield when you press shift+block, you just do a normal bash with the pommel or hilt. These attacks are quick, they do small (0-2) damage, but are used when enemies are closer than the minimum range for a proper attack, you want to push them back.
Draw back bonuses and penalties apply to these attacks as well. You can defend against them with a shield, but you can't with just a weapon.
Summary and gameplay effects
Make weapon swinging quick, but make the recovery time between swings variable based on skill, weapon etc.
You can perform lighter attacks by tapping the mouse button, or heavier attacks by holding it down.
the recovery time is dependant on what you hit, or how well it was parried by the enemy.
Weapons can get embedded in people.
Shields can also have a recovery time, during which they are not covering you properly.
Parry skill effects the recovery time of other people's attacks.
Secondary attacks are quick and designed to push enemies back. They are performed by pressing shift+attack/block.
There are several effects these ideas would have on the gameplay. First of all, it would break up the rather monotonous combat we have at present, and it would call for more judgement in battle, whether or not to give a strong attack, a weak attack or a bash to an enemy based on how well you and he are equipped. This adds variety to the game, and means there's always something more for experienced players to learn. It also makes the gameplay look more flash and realistic. The downside to this, is that it's harder for newbies to learn, unless they are taught it gradually. Another effect is that the outcome of a battle will be more skewed towards people with better stats. This is because attack strength, and parry skill affects how successful a block will be. A level 43 beserker with a bearded axe will be able to steamroll through a party of river pirates, because even if they are successful enough to block his first attack, their weapon will be knocked away so badly they won't have the time to resist the follow up attack.
I actually think this is a good thing, as it gives an added incentive to put skill into martial skill, and it also means a level 23 AI knight will actually be more than a match for a level 1 player-controlled squire.
I haven't really thought about the implications for horseback combat, but I don't think it would be much of a difference from this.
If anyone wants to discuss any points made in this, it would help if they labelled what they were discussing.