Arming your own troops? Hm?

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I like the idea of talking to your troops on the party screen, telling them what their weapon load out should be. Troops could have identifiers, inex. Swadian Footman-Pol (for polearm), Footman-1H (automatically has a shield), Knight-Pol, and so on.

Maybe with a pop up box asking "how many?", so you can vary your party if they are all the same basic troop type.
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I have to say that the idea of micromanaging 50+ soldiers equipment might prove too daunting. That would end up being my "Seconds" job (as in my right hand man's responsibility or as it sounds). :mrgreen: 
 
GOD, what an awful idea. Just play the band of heros mod, if you want this. I find handling more than a couple of characters' equipment to be a royal pain in the ass.
 
I agree with calandal. Think of the time it would take, you'd be hours just messing with character items.
 
Yeah, the OP suggestion is terrible.  It works in games like x-com, but not really here. 

Then again, the current system is absurd.

I like Bismarcks suggestion but it doesn't really handle upgrading equipment - it seems more suited for Total War type game. 

I think the best system would be AI based and fairly automated. 

It would work like this:

Every troop you recruit is an individual (not a category).  Like companions.  They don't upgrade into new categories after getting "experience".  They all have individual names (why will become clearer later on.)

However on your party screen troops are still grouped by category, not individual names.

Every troop can be assigned a desired "Role" by the player.  These replace the old categories like "Watchman" etc.  They can be changed at any time.  A 'Role' can be seen as a template for behaviour, skill distribution, and equipment preference.  These Roles are:

*) Mounted Skirmisher (ranged and horse)
*) Light Cavalry (fast horse, light armour)
*) Heavy Cavalry (charger, full armour)

*) Polearm Infantry (spears, pikes, etc)
*) Sword & Shield Infantry
*) 2H Infantry (2H axes etc)

*) Archer
*) Crossbowman
*) Skirmisher (Javelin)


(You could add other Roles but thats a basic list)

The AI, after winning battles, gives you first pick at all the looted stuff from the last battle.  (Stuff that was actually there, too, not the random stuff you get at the moment.)  Then, it distributes the leftovers automatically, and the AI will try to continuously upgrade itself, according to type.  And level - higher level AI troops get higher priority.

So instead of having upgraded troop types, they level up automatically like a companion, but how it distributes points etc is done automatically, as per its Role.  A cavalry AI will put more points into upgrading Riding Skill and Polearms (or Lances...), but a Crossbowman will upgrade Power Draw and Crossbow skill, etc.

How do you tell good units from bad, you ask?  Part of the game is the pleasure of seeing your troops get better over time.  A good question:  I would propose that the game displays the average level of each troop Role in your party screen.  Thus at the start of the game you have 6 level 2 Polearm Infantry, but after a couple of game weeks you have 5 level 14 Infantry.

An example of how it would work in action:

Now, say you recruit a Peasant from the Inn at Zendar.

You want your Peasant to one day become an elite mounted skirmisher.  So on your Party screen you change the Role to "Mounted Skirmisher".  So instead of it saying Peasant (1), it's Mounted Skirmisher (1) - [Level 1].  Unfortunately your Peasant is only equipped with a tunic, wrapping boots, and a pitchfork.  Time to remedy that.

You go off and defeat some Mountain Bandits.  Your Peasant survives and automatically equips the leftover items.  It takes a tattered Leather Jerkin, a Lame Saddle Horse, and some Throwing Knives.  Now, he is a mounted skirmisher, but not a terribly effective one.  Back on the world map, you're informed the troop gained x experience and is now level 2.  So your party screen looks like Mounted Skirmisher (1) - [Level 2]

Now, you have a bit of money so you go into a town and decide to pay for a good helmet instead of that leather cap your former peasant is wearing.  So you go to the armourer, buy it, and go to your Party screen, where you click on Mounted Skirmisher (1) - [Level 2] and then click the "Talk" button.  This goes to a simple screen where you choose the specific troop in the troop type - in this case there's only one, and we'll call him "Bernard".  After selecting Bernard, you go to a variant of the Companion screen, and you give the helmet to him.

You go out the next morning and fight a Dawn battle against some Sea Raiders.  It's a tough battle and Bernard is injured but he does get a good suit of maille armour, and a bent hunting bow (there was a war bow there but he doesn't have the powerdraw to use it - yet).  Meanwhile he's leveled up...

You get the picture.  The AI will always try to improve what its wearing based on the loot from a battle; or you can speed it up manually by buying stuff for them.

You might further ask, though, about what other parties would look like in terms of troop composition.  The answer is that they would look and work mostly the same as now, but if you manage to rescue some and move them onto your Party, you are prompted to set their Role (so you could tell a Swadian Knight to become an Archer if you wished, but this would be inadvisable because the Knight would have to learn a whole new set of skills and not level up often enough to make this practical.)

Names would be culture specific, so a Vaegir might be called "Borcha" and a Swadian Knight "Sir Sigismund", etc.

Any questions?
 
Good post, oRGy.  It's similar to what I posted in the Basic ideas to better add personality to your troops thread started by jpgray.  The only major disagreement we have is whether you should be able to assign someone a role when they're unequipped for it.  Copied from that thread:



First of all, I'd like to say that this is a great idea.  The only thing I disagree with is the idea of "ranks".  Units already HAVE ranks, and "Swadian Sergeant Sergeant" would be really dumb.

Personally, I'd like it if ALL NPCs in the game were hero NPC's, or at least part way between Hero and Generic.  Being able to call someone "Swadian Infantry" or "Vaegir Horseman" should depend on their actual rank, just like the one you have.  Here's how the system would work:


Equipping Troops:  Instead of the direct micromanagement used now, you would only have to control your troops' weaponry and stats as much as you wished to.  You could micromanage all your troops if you so choose, or you could allow the game to automatically handle weapon and armour disposition.

The party screen would need to be changed so that you could select multiple troops and give them assignments, or this WILL be annoyingly time consuming once you have a sizable force.  It would also be nice if when you're looking at a unit's inventory, if there was a scrollable list of all your troops so you could jump between units quickly.  Troops would be listed as "Name, Title", with the title being divided into ranks and roles; eg. "Marnid, Dangerously-Poor Archer" or "Kradus, Lancer Extraordinaire".


Titles: Roles/Assignments:  Troops are given generic roles, such as "Infantry", "Pikeman", "Archer", "Crossbowman", "Rider", "Lancer", etc., as well as specialized roles such as "Scout", "Medic/Physician", or "Farrier".  When you assign a role to a unit or units, you get a report telling you what equipment is required to change their assignment.  From there, you will have three options:
  1. Tell the units that they are responsible for their own equipment.  This option is cheaper for you coffers, but they will not be able to afford the quality of equipment you could provide, and morale will take a hit, as your troops will be grumbling about you behind your back.  The troops will not be able to buy new equipment until you arrive in the next town.  Until you arrive at the next town, they will keep their current role;  in the party screen they will appear as "Name, Rank Role (Pending Role)".
  2. Give your troops enough money so that they can purchase the equipment at the next town you visit.
  3. Give your troops the required equipment from your inventory.  This will change their title immediately.


Titles: Ranks: Within each unit type, troops get modifiers which denote their "rank".  Troops with higher modifiers will require better equipment, so if a Novice Axeman has only a hatchet, he may require a hand axe before you can upgrade his rank to 'Experienecd', or whatever the next rank is, and a shield or two-handed axe to upgrade to 'Veteran'.  Troop promotions will also have requirements for both level and weapon proficiency in the appropriate weapon(s), as well as Skill level requirements for certain troop types:  a troop with no levels in scouting could not become a Scout, a troop without any Riding, Power Draw, or Horse Archery could not become a Mounted Archer, and a troop with no ranks in the surgical skills could not become a Field Medic.

To become a Horse Archer, a unit may need to first spend time as both an archer and a Horseman to get all his weapons proficiencies high enough.

The "title trees" could have unique and specific modifiers.  For instance, mounted troops would attain various levels of Knighthood, whereas Infantry become Guards, Sergeants, or Warriors, and archers and crossbowmen become Sharpshooters.  The title trees used for the various nations could also be distinct.  If you are neutral, and do not have the backing of a Feudal lord, your troops would only get the most generic of titles, eg. "Expert Lancer" rather than "Swadian Knight Lancer".  Rank and title is given out through the feudal system, not on a whim.


National titles:  In order for troops to have national titles, they will need to be in the employ of a nation.  For example, if you are neutral and rescue some Swadian Men-at-Arms, and they choose(!) to join your army, they would become plain "Veteran Cavalry", or whatever class corresponds with that rank.  If you join a faction, all your troops will be migrated to the appropriate rank.  As a side note, certain nations may not support certain troop types, and these troops would become "Mercenary".  Examples may be Vaegir not having crossbowmen and Swadians not having Javelineers or Axe-throwers.


Rescuing Prisoners: You know, as grateful as that Vaegir Master-Knight may be that you rescued him from the Sea Raiders, he may not wish to join you as a Swadian vassal.  He may not even want to join a neutral party, keeping loyalty to his Lord and King.  You should have four options with any rescued prisoner, or any defeated enemy:
  1. Offer to allow him to join you.  Troops of your nationality (and lower rank than you) will always accept, but enemy or neutral troops may not be so fast to take up your cause, and troops that out-rank you may not want to serve under you.  If the troop refuses this offer, this option will simply disappear and you will be left with the other three.  If you have a national alignment, some troops may choose to follow you as Mercenaries, and will retain a neutral status.  Some troops, such as Sea Raiders, will almost always choose this option.
  2. Release him.  Simply set him free (perhaps with the option to give him his equipment or not) to go on his way.
  3. Take him prisoner.  So the Sea Raiders defeated the Nobleman's party and took him prisoner... at the moment, your only option is to "rescue" him and take him into your party.  Ain't that a *****?  There need to be more options for unloading prisoners, but that's the subject for another thread.
  4. "Release" him.  From his mortal coils, that is.  :twisted:  Why should you leave an enemy alive on the battlefield to come back and kill your countrymen later?  Sometimes in war, no mercy can be shown.  Obviously, killing or even taking prisoner a member of your own faction should have extreme effects on morale, and may even lead to desertion of revolt.  Your Lord and King, at the very least, will take great exception to it.

Another idea for a possible option is enslavement.  Slaves or Thralls are free to maintain, but you must provide them with their weapons.  If you engage in a battle with their faction, they will not participate, since they would be locked up so they couldn't join their brothers and fight against you.  Slaves will ALWAYS side against you in case of a troop revolt.


Upgrading & Levelling:  When an NPC levels, you should be given two options:  the game can automatically distribute their points, based on an ideal template for that unit-type, or you can choose to distribute the points manually.  When you distribute points manually, there should be an "auto-distribute" button beside "Ok" and "Reset", so if you wanted to give that archer 1 point of Intelligence and 2 points in Riding so that he can become a mounted archer, you could then have the computer distribute the weapon points automatically.


Goals:  To assist the auto-distributor, you should be able to set goals for your troops.  For example, you could set the "goal" of your Archer to become a mounted archer, and the game would automatically start allocating points into the required fields.  In-game, you would instruct the archer to study the art of mounted archery, and in a couple levels, he would approach you and say that he is now ready to take on that role, having put points in Riding and Horse Archery.  Similarly, you could instruct an Infantryman that you wanted him to ultimately become a Pikeman, and he would allocate points into Pole weapons, rather than 1- and 2- handed weapons, and put skill points in Ironskin rather than Shield; or instruct a Pikeman to work towards being a Lancer and he would start investing points in Riding and Shield; and so forth.


Fealty and Feudalism:  When you join a faction, your rank should permit you to command a certain number of a certain type of units on the King's coin.  Troops above and beyond this allotment will, of course, still be paid from your own purse.  Troops that you upgrade to fill these positions should be upgraded free of charge when you're in an allied city and telling troops to supply their own equipment for these positions would have no negative repurcussions.  Mercenaries are never paid on the King's coin:  you always hire and pay for them yourself.

Furthermore, you should not be able to upgrade troops beyond your own "Rank".  "Rank" is different that the titles listed above;  as a commander in the King's army, you have one of four ranks:
-Award of Arms.  The king gives you the right to bear arms and fight in his name.  You are a minor nobility and the King grants you small stipends to field troops for him.  At this rank, you can only promote troops to modest ranks.
-Grant of Arms.  Higher than the AoA, you are given funds to field a modest force.  The only thing you cannot do is raise Knights, but the highest level foot-soldiers are available to you.
-Patent of Arms.  This is the rank given with Knighthood.  As a knight, you are now able to knight other soldiers in the king's name.  You may field a large force, but are still subject to the whims and demands of the Landed Nobility across the lands; ie., city rulers.
-Royal Peerage.  You are granted land and a Noble title and direct Fealty to the King.  You may now address the city rulers as equal, and all their quests are optional to you.  All troops and weapons (besides Mercenaries, which you ALWAYS pay for) are maintained and upgraded free of charge, but the King requires you to pay HIM a regular stipend based on the force you control, so you'd best be productive with those troops.


World Map Party Info:  On the world map, instead of a list of NPCs, units would be grouped by type; so looking at an enemy force you will still see "9 Infantry, 5 Archers, 5 Horsemen, 2 Knights".  Specific troop types will be generalized, so that 9 Infantry could be 3 Swordsman, 2 Great-Swordsman, and 4 Pikeman of varying proficiencies- how would YOU know whether that Infantryman was Veteran, a Master, or a complete noob?  Perhaps when you get closer, right-clicking on the party would bring up a more detailed analasys, with indications as to how well-armed the troops are to help you guess how experienced they are.

There are other benefits to this system as well:
- Certain Party skills could be cumulative, such as Spotting and First Aid, while others could give diminishing returns for redundancy like Tracking and Pathfinding, and still others could use the current "best only" system, such as Trade, since you never send a committee to the marketplace. :wink:
- Troop trees are now more fluid and realistic.  At the moment, there's no way to tell that Crossbowman that you want him to become an infantryman.  You're stuck with the "model" that you happened to get.  Troops that "cross-class" in this way will have perfectly natural deficiencies in their new field, and if you later change your mind, they will still have the skills that they learned earlier.
- Similarly, troop trees can now be much more expansive.  Trying to develop a system where you could have specifically out-fitted troops (swords, shields, pikes, bows, x-bows, etc.) was always a pain.
- Marnid and Borcha can now die.  :twisted:  They could even be carried away after a defeat and join an enemy faction!  Of course, if you should ever face them on the field of battle, you will have a lot of pent-up anger from that time you experimented with giving them a bag of Jarid to unleash on them.
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i wish at least that there where a button in the loot screen that said:spli loot!
that button would let your men equipp themselves with the lewt! if it was better than their current EQ.
the solider with most kills got the best armour the solider with second most kills got the best weapon and so on.
 
I think that the archonsod option interesting is better interesting than the one by one equipment feature.


:smile:
 
Eogan:

Yeah, didn't see your post before - yours seems a bit more complicated and I'd prefer just the averaged level than a Rank, purely for the sake that it's easier to implement into the game as-is.

Xilium:
Archonsods system is not a new system, since it is what happens ingame right now.

Anyone with a passing familiarity with the module system knows that every troop type is given a list of equipment, skills and armour.  You can make these as specific or as pseudo-random as you like. 

 
if this is a game, dont forget that, it must be changed by ingame menus, not by editing game files.
 
Booty said:
i wish at least that there where a button in the loot screen that said:split loot!
that button would let your men equip themselves with the loot! if it was better than their current EQ.

I like this idea. if you don't ned the cash you can allow your men to take all the items they would need. You could sell whats left of it.
 
I'd like to see troop "kits." You just buy a loadout for ALL that type of troop. So long as I don't have to individually deal with each troop - that would be so tedious - this would be wonderful and would make your army feel more useful.
 
Well, there could be upgrades for different types of troops, requiring money and experience. BUT, this would destroy the illusion that booty is being split by your troops. Plus, the idea that the correct equipment for a kit would be available in a location would be a royal pain.
 
you could just have the option ''let troops loot whatever weapon and horse they find'' and give them the weapons you want to give once they become regular troops..

i always think about kingdom of heavon when i think about improvments in this game and it would be really cool to be able to arm your won knigths, definitly much more costly but also cooler..
 
It should be possible to buy a set of armor and weapons say black armor and 2 handed sword and give it to an entire section of the party that way we don't need to personally equip every one and we can change their equipment to what we see fit.
 
Someone else mentioned Band of Warriors mod, it already has scripts to implement 'stances' in your up to 23 companions, individually or as a group, effectively telling them what 'weapon loadout' to use in their next battle (such as start mounted/dismounted, use blunt/killing/missile, cavalry charge, equip shields [and 1-h weapon instead of 2-h], etc). Without a stance set they use the existing companion logic.

As the troops already have a particular set of equipment that they draw from randomly in Native something like 'stances' and splitting troop types by stance might be a useable option without overloading the system, it should only need one extra troop flag, some extra info in troop loadout stats and a bit of extra decision logic before battle commences, plus the control system in the GUI (and the removal of the current 24 troop type cap). Those that don't want to use it can carry on letting the game decide loadout on it's default random settings.

As to personally equipping your troops, I'd rather not see that. At low levels it can be a pain to keep upgrading yourself let alone all of your troops. With larger forces it would likely have to be an all upgrade or nothing option otherwise there's just too much micromanagement involved (on the engine side, not player, imagine the game having to keep track of each soldier and their kit !?!?!).

BoW has another script to allow your companions to buy their own kit when they have enough money (or you can toss items and battlefield loot that you don't want into a 'pool' and they pick skill appropriate gear from that), but these are hero characters, so I prefer abstracting away that your 'normal' forces upgrade themselves because you've been paying them upkeep.
 
I'm all for the standardised kits myself; and it wouldn't necessarily break the illusion of your troops splitting the loot, you as leader get the best share, then all the badly-damaged or just plain crap stuff gets shared by your troops who sell their shares as soon as they can. of course, for that to work you'd have to find something useable in your share of the loot every once in a while :wink:
 
I'm thinking maybe there's two or three weapon sets that come with each troop, but no way to alter these sets.  You could pick out each group of soldiers in the party menu and adjust how many use each weapon set with some slider bars.  Not the level of customization some people may be looking for, but it seems like a pretty easy way to get control over how many knights you want with lances/1H weaps/2H weaps.  Or how many nomads you want with spears/scimitars/bows.
 
I would prefer it if each and every single armsman in the game could be customizable.  It makes sense to have prefabricated fighters denoting specific "classes", but as a player, I would really like the ability to outfit every single one of my men (and women!) with both a bow, armor, sword and shield if I want to.  If you think about it, it might actually make hiring peasants worthwhile.

Of course, I understand the host of problems implementing such a feature would cause, so at the moment I'm quietly optimistic something like this will be modded.
 
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