Sorted popup troop lists

This came up as a side note intended to eliminate one of the possible objections to my Auxiliaries suggestion... but as I wrote it, it became clear that it could be a valuable suggestion in its own right, independent of that.  So this is the thread for it.

I'd like to see troop lists, everywhere they currently appear, get sorted by troop type - Cavalry, Infantry, Archers, etc. - in their default display.  So, when you go to your party management (or recruitment) screen, rather than seeing the full list you see group totals - 15 Cavalry, 3 Infantry, 5 Archers.  These are like folders; they pop open to give full details, but only when you want it.  So if I want to check on how many fighter women I have left, I open up the infantry group and I see my farmers, my Vaegir guards, and my fighter women.  If I want to check that against sword sisters left, I can also open the Cavalry group simultaneously.  The current view would be exactly replicated - if all of them were open.  Closing some again would help clean things up.

Perhaps more importantly, I'd like to see that on the map view.  When I hover the mouse over my troop, I see group totals at first.  Upon request - preferably right-click, but a particular command key would work, or a long hover - the whole thing expands out to full list form.  Same thing for enemy troops; a quick hover gets me categories, not specifics.

The perfect magic which lets me tell Dark Hunters from Dark Knights at four miles' range could then go by the wayside.  Depending on my Spotting (and perhaps Tracking) skill, the range at which I can command the "23 Cavalry" to expand into "10 Dark Knights, 13 Dark Hunters" is much shorter than the range at which I first see them.  A colour distinction, perhaps, lets me know that now they're close enough to see in their entirety... my scouts and outriders (whether implicit or specified) can now get close enough to get me that information.  That would be awesome.

Additional bonus points if, at that point, even the specificity of "23 Cavalry" isn't the worst of it.  That's the mid-range outcome.  At longer ranges, the outside of the current Spot zone, I get ranges, not specifics, and perhaps the grouping gets less specific.  Like Tracking at moderate skills is right now.  When that party first comes into sight, maybe a hover gets me only "20-30 Cavalry".  Better yet, my abliity to distinguish infantry from archers goes away at that range, too.  The Dark Knights example doesn't work here, but imagine if:

- You spot an enemy unit on the map.  It's labeled Vaegir Scouting Party.  At this range, when it first comes into view, you hover over it and see "20-30 horse, 10-15 foot."
- It comes somewhat closer, to maybe 2/3s of that distance.  Hover over it now, and it says "23 Cavalry, 8 Archers, 5 Infantry."
- It comes even closer, maybe 1/3rd of original range.  Hover now, and you still get "23 Cavalry, 8 Archers, 5 Infantry."  But it's changed colour slightly, and you know this means you can right-click to expand it.  Do so, and it shows "13 Vaegir Horsemen, 10 Vaegir Knights, 6 Vaegir Archers, 2 Vaegir Marksmen, 5 Vaegir Infantry."

I think that would be both cleaner, on the displays, and really interesting in terms of fog of war.

- Hellequin

Hellequin said:

The perfect magic which lets me tell Dark Hunters from Dark Knights at four miles' range could then go by the wayside.  Depending on my Spotting (and perhaps Tracking) skill, the range at which I can command the "23 Cavalry" to expand into "10 Dark Knights, 13 Dark Hunters" is much shorter than the range at which I first see them.  A colour distinction, perhaps, lets me know that now they're close enough to see in their entirety... my scouts and outriders (whether implicit or specified) can now get close enough to get me that information.  That would be awesome.

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I like this idea. It still irks me however that there are such detailed numbers. Generals back in those times wouldn't have piddled about finding out their enemy had 10,512 footmen with 438 knights - wouldn't they talk about regiments and so on and so forth? Even at a distance, wouldn't it be hard to discern whether that band marching is a group of peasants or some really poor theives, or whether that is a large swadian party or a large vaegir party. Would introduce a little more skill and discovery into the game.

Again, great idea.

Yah - though, let's keep in mind that this really isn't your "sight" distance.  That's only a tiny part of it.  This is your scouts-report-back-in-useful-time distance; your charcoal-burners-and-smallholders-saw-them-yesterday distance.  This makes the level of detail less magical than it seems at first.  Still be nice to change, though.

I basically like the double edge of the logic in the OP here. Reduce the level of complexity in the information for presenations' sake, and only expand it if reconnaissance conditions permit. Elegance is indicative.

Yeah, I think that would be a good addition for your own party.  that way you will not have to worry so much about having lots of troop types.

For other parties I don't use them at all in overland roving because it's just kinda ridiculous to always know exactly what you are up against.  Even something like 40-60 cavalry flying the vaegir flag would be much better.

I like to sort my troops by relative strength, placing the weaker ones in battle first to gain exp.  This new display system would also need a new way to declare which troops first enter battle, as it clearly won't be able to rely on 'the ones at the top go first' anymore.  I would suggest some general tactics settings to help cope with this, for example:  'Strongest First', 'Weakest First', 'Cavalry/Melee First', ect.

great idea both.
specially that about recon of enemy troops, it is really good.
the sight range to see an enemy army depends of its size too.
a 100 infantry 40 cav army is much easyer to see (dust cloud when marching etc) than a couple of bandits sneaking around.
so bigger the army, the longer the range and easyness to spot it.
this idea could be used for some kind of surprise attacks or ambushes for small groups of soldiers.
that would enhance the original idea i think, giving more realism to the exploration and recon matter.

Yet another brilliant idea, just waiting to be added into the game.

That viewing distance is something really needed by merchants. So the enemy couldn't spot them miles away. And the merchants could sneak behind the bandit's lines.

Radnik said:

this idea could be used for some kind of surprise attacks or ambushes for small groups of soldiers.

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I like  what you said here.  Ambushes are great and Mount&Blade being a small skirmish kind of game (unless you get Battle Size Changer) would, I think, be greatly enhanced by this.  This would, say when battle starts, allow you to enter battle with more of your men out and less of theirs plus you could spawn nearer to them.  Or some such penalties, you get the idea.

support....good idea.

I'm not too bothered about arranging my troops that way, the current system is acceptable to me, but yes, the viewing distances need to be changed so there's a difference in spotting distances for different party sizes. Also not knowing every tiny detail about enemy parties would be good, you should have to close some distance before you get an idea of troop numbers and types, and I think the tracks should give away the composition more easily, it should tell you the percentage that are mounted at least, and with high Tracking skills, maybe it would be possible to identify by faction.

Hellequin said:

Yah - though, let's keep in mind that this really isn't your "sight" distance.  That's only a tiny part of it.  This is your scouts-report-back-in-useful-time distance; your charcoal-burners-and-smallholders-saw-them-yesterday distance.  This makes the level of detail less magical than it seems at first.  Still be nice to change, though.

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I also think so.

I'd like to see troop lists, everywhere they currently appear