Secondary Attacks: a how-to (with pictures!)

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Not so sure I like the starter post's idea. If I read correctly both attacks would be chambered the same way, but have different block positions. That's just ridiculus (<-- so's my spelling)
 
Destichado said:
jeansberg said:
I would prefer using a modifier key like F or SHIFT, instead of double-clicking. But then again, that's what an options menu is for.  :smile:
Yes, so would I.  As I said, I like Z or CTRL since they're convenient and currently unused in combat mode.  But that *is* what the config menu is for.

How about clicking the right mouse button while the left mouse button is being held down?
You still ready the attack as normal, but trigger it by pressing the right mouse button instead of releasing the left.

Alternatively, the secondary attack could replace the kick attack. Why kick when you can do more damage (and still send the enemy reeling) with a pommel or shield strike?
 
awesome man! i agree with da spoon because with the shield bash mods you hold the block and press the attack button.
 
Well, I really like the idea of a second attack or something.  Cause one thing that really bugs me about the game is how you attack a guy with a shield, and then you pause, and the enemy attacks.  I would much rather be able to unleash a devastating crazy combo to disarm the guy or something.  (That's blown out of proportion, but you know what I mean)  And, just as a side suggestion, perhaps you could implement a skill to level up, such as the engineering, and every other point you put into it, enables another attack, so at lvl 10 you can chain together 5 combos, and move your mouse around to target more than one opponent.

However, I don't think that if a multiple combo thing is going to be added, I don't think it should work as well for two handed weapons.  but a one handed dagger or sword, (which currently are usless) could become much more effective if you could have this five combo things.  Anyhow, just a suggestion, i'm fine if you want to say that this is pointless, but pls just use intellectual critisizm, instead of just *F* this.  :grin:  thnx.
 
A spear is mainly a thrusting weapon with a shield. The secondary attack should be hurling that sucker into someones gut.
You should be able to retrieve it later.
 
Chucklzz said:
Well, I really like the idea of a second attack or something.  Cause one thing that really bugs me about the game is how you attack a guy with a shield, and then you pause, and the enemy attacks.  I would much rather be able to unleash a devastating crazy combo to disarm the guy or something.  (That's blown out of proportion, but you know what I mean)  And, just as a side suggestion, perhaps you could implement a skill to level up, such as the engineering, and every other point you put into it, enables another attack, so at lvl 10 you can chain together 5 combos, and move your mouse around to target more than one opponent.

However, I don't think that if a multiple combo thing is going to be added, I don't think it should work as well for two handed weapons.  but a one handed dagger or sword, (which currently are usless) could become much more effective if you could have this five combo things.  Anyhow, just a suggestion, i'm fine if you want to say that this is pointless, but pls just use intellectual critisizm, instead of just *F* this.  :grin:  thnx.

look, I'm much against crazy 5-move combos.  But I agree with your first sentence 100%.

A sword has HUNDREDS of nuances in the ways it can be used to hurt somebody.  Even with a sword so specialised and limited in usage as the modern fencing epee, you have probably 20 clearly different moves.  (I'm saying probably, because my idea of 'clearly different' is maybe not the same as yours, or Johnny's...)

M&B combat needs to reflect the usefulness of various weapons more accurately.

Currently, the only decisions are along the lines of cost versus speed versus damage versus reach.

Whether or not you can use a shield with it, to protect yourself from missiles, becomes less relevant since you can have a shield up, then 'draw' a poleaxe in the last second, and sling your shield to go into melee.

But smaller swords or 1-handed axes should offer a variety of blows and attacks that will compensate hugely for their lack of weight and reach.  Even the richest soldiers carried a 1-handed sword!  There must be a reason for that, when they could afford the biggest axe or morningstar that money could buy!
 
I like this, i have also think same thing :smile:
Should be secondary animation
 
There could be a secondary attack for all two handed weapons where after you deal the initial strike you hit the enemy with the other side of the weapon, this would also be REALLY EPIC if the game had some double sided swords :grin: just an idea
thanks :smile:
 
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Unless you're sure you want to reply, please consider starting a new topic.

I know I'm invoking quite the necromancy today, forum, but the original post is really good and explores a solid idea in a very graceful way. I totally get your concerns, but I think it's more important to draw attention to ideas that deserve support, or at least consideration. Just let me say my piece before turning me in to Vatican authorities and I promise it'll be worth your while.

Destichado said:
For the secondary attack button I like Z or Ctrl, personally, but that can be configured to taste like everything else.

I've chosen to set this line apart for very good reasons. Firstly, Z or Ctrl is a questionable idea in an otherwise excellent potential execution of the concept. It would be much better to keep all this stuff to the mouse. Secondly, and following from the previous statement, we can think bigger.

What if clicking the right mouse button while the left is held down gave us a secondary attack? And what if clicking the left mouse button while parrying gave us a tertiary attack? As you point out, a unique aspect of Mount & Blade is that we hold and release our attacks. It's an important element of relaying visual information to the player and imposes an important, but player-motivated, element of timing onto the system. Whether we're attacking or parrying, our actions provide information to any observers. As you're familiar with the fechtbucher, you'll know that extended versions of Ochs  and Pflug can be used as parries. So we could structure it somewhat like this:

High Parry: Kron, with the sword held perpendicular to the guard, point upwards, and the hilt a bit above head height. If using the tertiary attack idea above, it could do the obvious attack from that position; a descending vertical cut.
Left and Right Parries: Ochs on either side, that is: hilt at head height or thereabouts, point towards one's opponent, with the hilt held to one side of the body. The obvious attack from this position is a thrust, so there we are.
Low Parry: Could be Pflug (hilt held to one side of the hip, point towards an opponent) or Alber (hilt held centrally, point angled evenly towards the ground). Either is fine. Pflug could deliver a thrust, too, I suppose, as could technically Alber. Damn, seems like these parries really want to return with a thrust.

Just as examples.

If we followed the idea of a secondary attack along, and included parries as a viable starting position as well, the result could be a much more diverse combat system. The challenge is in not laying the complexity on too thick; even the existing combat system is very deep. But I think your idea is definitely on the right track, introducing a sufficient amount of diversity with minimal additional complexity. If I was within slapping range of you, I'd slam an embarrassing star sticker right onto your forehead.
 
Well so long as somebodies reading this (alexcalibur)
I wish you would have waited another six days thay way it would have been an even three years.
This whole idea of secondary attacks would be quite awesome, i always felt that weapons such as polearms and quarter staffs are a bit underwhelming if you only use the sharp end of the stick. 'Secondary attacks' would fix this just fine. But the thing is it really cant have to steep of a learning curve or else youve erased an essential part of the game. If you ask me amyway. You should be able to practice swordplay in mount and blade and yet not have to spend a month of training yourswlf in order to be adequete amongst expierienced players. Although this secobdary attack system would open up scores of new possibilities with kicking. Currently i often forget about kicks unless there is a bloodbath in front of me and i dont have space to swing a sword. Although i disagree in part about the controls. People who find themselves in a click fest are going to have a hard time fighting if they keep accidently using secondary attacks in place of normal attacks. Seems an easy enough mistake to make, if your the last man standing and your surrounded people tend to just click until they die, which is why a double clicking system might get irritating. Really though the control isnt all that important as you can change it at will.
 
The idea does implicitly require an improved AI to prevent every fight becoming a click contest.
As I said many years ago, the principle of being able to take advantage of functionally different tat tacks using the one weapon, is great.
 
Love the idea, and the illustrations...

But it's a hell of a lot of work to add. If it is implemented, I would like it done properly - the sketch for the secondary spear attack is perfect. It would depend a lot on the weapon being wielded though, some heavy weapons (2-handed hammers, greatswords, etc) might require a 'spin', so that it looks like momentum is being carried forwards. It would look ridiculous if someone took a swing with a massive hammer, then changed their attack mid-flow - rather than going with the massive build up of momentum.

It would also require different damage output per weapon, per secondary attack. The spear secondary you illustrated would be a weaker attack than the first hit, and would deal blunt damage rather than the cutting/thrusting of the original attack. A greatsword or hammer second attack would deal more damage than the first due to momentum, but might unbalance the attacker - and leave them open to a backstab for a few moments.

Another idea; the secondary attack (depending on weapon) might possibly be stopped mid swing for a 'power block/parry', which could throw the attacker off guard. But that opens up a whole new field of tertiary attacks (such as shoulder barge, punch, etc)

The only problem with all of this is how to stop fast attack spam from daggers and short swords. IRL, a guy swinging a greatsword with enough momentum would not be 'interrupted' by a dagger stab, though it would certainly change the direction of attack from said greatsword.

On the other hand, a guy swinging a greatsword is not going to be able to change the direction of attack very quickly, whether they hit or miss - changing from backhand swing to forehand swing would be super slow for anyone who is not the hulk.

There needs to be a balance between freedom of movement/attack and complexity. But I would certainly love to see a second attack on some weapons (perhaps not all) Definitely momentum attacks with heavier weapons though, and th spear one in the illustration - well - that could cause the attacker to stumble back a step, and open them up for another standard spear attack.
 
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