Two weapon fightin? (dual wielding)
- Thread starter Kniggit
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nightrunn3r
Recruit
dual wielding has been already suggested, but in general it wasn't liked because it wasn't realistic. The only type of combat I knew of that utilized two weapons was the dagger/rapier combo, but that doesn't really apply to the period that M&B seems to be from.
corksacker69
Recruit
i really dont see whats wrong with being able to dual weld.
Worbah
Grandmaster Knight
Me neither, as long as you aren't allowed to wield two fighting axes/longswords/morningstars. And all this talk about the era it is set into... Why don't people complain about Sword Sisters? Black Knights? The fact that most of the characters speak goddamn American English? They aren't bothered because those are the type of fantasy elements they like.
Well I think that it was that rare to have a smaller weapon in other hand. Like a dagger wielded in the same hand as shield (not a heavy one). There are also shields that have 2 blades attached to it (can't remember the name of the weapon/shield, if someone remembers it please post, so i can google a picture).
At first i liked this idea, but the more i think about it, the more i have to say it would suck. It would be very difficult to balance, and IMO would kind of degrade the "feel" that M&B has. I don't care about it being not realistic, its just that it wouldn't look for feel right. Also it would reduce the usefulness of other 2handed weaponry. Why fight with that big 2hander when i could be much faster with two 1handers? Knights of the Old Republic is a good example... why use one lightsaber when you could use two and own?
A different case, as in Kotor all of the lightsabers had the same damage (yea I know about the short one and about the two bladed one). And the reason to wield only one lightsaber in Kotor was the defensive "dueling-feat" and it was way "cooler" than those main-stream double bladed lightsabers (IMO). But I see I am drifting away from the topic.
Big 2-hander would have a much longer range than 2* 1-handed weapons. So it would give a headstart for the 2-handed weapon wielder. And not anyone can wield 2 weapons effectively (ambidexterity skill anyone?). Also 2-handed weapons also much higher "armor penetration ability" being much heavier (dunno if 2-handed (heavier) weapons make bigger damage vs armours in MB but IMO it should be so).[/u]
corksacker69
Recruit
yeah a 2 handed weapon style would have huge penaltys unless you had a very speceific skill set and stat distribution or somthing. i would also like some benefit to using a one handed weapon without a sheild, like a one handed weapon style.
One should benefit from that, though shield would surely be MUCH more useful. One of the benefits would be faster rate of attacks (higher attack speed), for one has more control over one's movements when one doesn't have a cumbersome shield in the otherhand slowing his actions. "A buckler" would not make much difference, but a big,heavy hoplite (spelling?) shield would.
No it would not if it was done properly. Smashing one button to hack and slash with two weapons (with mega-ultra-killing-power-badass style) propably would, but if it was done so that they would give new stricking chances. This would of course require two attack-buttons and thus mouse would require 3-buttons (most have 3 puttoned mouse, if the wheel is included?) or by pressing them both down at the same time character would block. Just suggestions.
Sure shield is a great protection, but two weapons offer the element of surprise (like a left-handed warrior would). The opponent would have to defend the both sides of his body at the same time.
Btw didin't japanese warriors (samurai,ninja) sometimes use 2 smaller blades instead of a bigger, two handed weapon (which ninjas never used). Correct me if my memories betray me.
Skyrage
Master Knight
None actually...if the ancient armies of the past would benefit more by having 2 weapons instead of one weapon and a shield, don't anyone here think that they would dual wield then? Not to mention add all armor on top that they'd wear and dual wielding will soon look really suicidal...
Dual wielding is fantasy/roleplaying creation mainly...in real life no sane person would go for dual wielding...oh..unless we're talking about lightsabers that actaully have next to no weight which in that case would make dual wielding somewhat meaningful...
Oh, and a samurai MIGHT have wielded dual weapons...if he didn't have any armor on him...with the war-armor on, they'd most definately be using dai-katanas...
Dual wielding is fantasy/roleplaying creation mainly...in real life no sane person would go for dual wielding...oh..unless we're talking about lightsabers that actaully have next to no weight which in that case would make dual wielding somewhat meaningful...
Oh, and a samurai MIGHT have wielded dual weapons...if he didn't have any armor on him...with the war-armor on, they'd most definately be using dai-katanas...
Two weapon wieding is not for organized armies nor for people who lack the ability to handle two weapons in different hands. Dual wielding might be for suicidal characters (berserkers), and as I mentioned one can wield a small shield and a small dagger in the same hand, even some archers had shields. And why don't all single-hand weapon wielders in the game have shields? They cannot afford one, but two cudgels should cost nothing and if you asked me I would use two cudgels instead of one.
edit: I found a link saying: "Katana: The longsword used by the Samurai, and worn with the Wakizashi as part of the "Daisho" (long and short). At least one famous samurai was known to have used the Daisho as paired weapons." URL: http://www.innocence.com/fengshui/worldbook/japanese-weaponry.html You can decide your self if you consider it as a reliable source or not.
edit: I found a link saying: "Katana: The longsword used by the Samurai, and worn with the Wakizashi as part of the "Daisho" (long and short). At least one famous samurai was known to have used the Daisho as paired weapons." URL: http://www.innocence.com/fengshui/worldbook/japanese-weaponry.html You can decide your self if you consider it as a reliable source or not.
Worbah
Grandmaster Knight
Multiple history books I've read mentioned the dual wielding samurai
Dual wielding wasn't popular because it is hard to master, and someone on the forums said that lefthandedness and ambidexterity were marks of Satan. This kind of superstition was common so I don't doubt it. For an example, one of our study books claims that in most christian armies, if you had a 'wet dream' before battle you wouldn't fight. Or something. I can't remember it exactly, since I've lost the book
Dual wielding wasn't popular because it is hard to master, and someone on the forums said that lefthandedness and ambidexterity were marks of Satan. This kind of superstition was common so I don't doubt it. For an example, one of our study books claims that in most christian armies, if you had a 'wet dream' before battle you wouldn't fight. Or something. I can't remember it exactly, since I've lost the book
Worbah
Grandmaster Knight
And the point of a shield always being more useful in combat than a second weapon... Imagine blocking an attack from the right with your shield, and making a follow up attack. Not easy. A shield could be treated as an off hand weapon with a low damage and the ability to block arrows and melee attacks instead of just melee attacks. And saying that you need a three buttoned mouse... No you don't, just put 'defend' in 'q' or 'e'. After a bit of practice it works.
He can add dual wielding sometime after he adds magic, and other bits of fantasy to the game. For the most part, that's all hollywood and makebelieve. There are very, very few historical sources for any practical martial application of dual weapons.
The ones I know of are -
Offhand Dirk.
For a very short period between the heavier rapier and true fencing rapier, post buckler and pre thrusting weapon period there was a time when a dagger was used offhand as a 'fencing dagger' to ward parry ... and end a fight that moved to grappling.
Left hand axe
Apparently the vikings used a left handed axe to hook shields and 'spoil' an enemy's defense, and probably other things. unfortunateyl there are not many texts that survived from the viking era to tell us more about it.
Wakizashi
I think, though I have no text to support this, that the wakizashi is intended to deal with grappling, not to be an offhand weapon.
The ones I know of are -
Offhand Dirk.
For a very short period between the heavier rapier and true fencing rapier, post buckler and pre thrusting weapon period there was a time when a dagger was used offhand as a 'fencing dagger' to ward parry ... and end a fight that moved to grappling.
Left hand axe
Apparently the vikings used a left handed axe to hook shields and 'spoil' an enemy's defense, and probably other things. unfortunateyl there are not many texts that survived from the viking era to tell us more about it.
Wakizashi
I think, though I have no text to support this, that the wakizashi is intended to deal with grappling, not to be an offhand weapon.
Worbah
Grandmaster Knight
nox said:
... And we can all remember the era of Swadian rule, don't we? The fantasy elements I'm talking about is **** that makes sense that weren't done IRL, not because of inferior technology but because of cultural superstitions, like if you can use a weapon in your left hand as well you should be allowed to do it. If it is physically possible but was frowned upon because God said so then you should be able to do it in the game (and before you twist my words, I'm not talking about incest and murder). I mean, this could actually make the daggers usefull! And since you are referring to history books, do they mention soldiers with dagger/shield combinations? Medieval javelin thrower knights? Fresh recruits adressing kings (or other nobles for that matter) in what appears to be their own private quarters. Either that or they have very minimalistic throne rooms.
IT'S A GODDAMN GAME!!!
