Zomgz ughz 2hz tooz fastz!@!

[inox_ionizer]

Sure, but with sweet spots, they wouldn't do full damage if they spun. On the other hand, right now a great long axe that literally starts its swing right next to the enemy's face, with a backswing of about 4cm, will do 2/3 damage out of full hp if neither of the two is moving. If both were moving, then speed bonus might actually make it a one-hit kill.

Yes, it would help a lot, but if the spinner manages to prevent the other player from attacking, it's just a matter of time before the spinner wins, assuming a third player doesn't interfere. But then again, that might not be as much of a problem as some patches ago.

 

[DeathsShadow]

I don't think 2handers were ever faster than 1handers except that one patch where it was just completely messed up, i think the only reason they think they ARE faster is because people just click swing, and don't hold it some people hold it to get a more powerful strike but if you instantly click it does a very fast attack that still does considerable damage, also counter attacks.... can make a weapon swing faster unless thats been removed..

 

[Kazzan]

Just increase stun done by strike getting blocked. But very slightly.

 

[scythe111]

Just increase stun done by strike getting blocked. But very slightly.

I (really)^9000 hate this "feature." It penalizes you for a successful block. No thanks.

 

[MaHuD]

Bastard sword can swing before the other can swing.

 

[Styo]

What Jesse said is correct, but then how come the wooden staff of the axe cause same amount of damage as the tip. That is my issue. Esp when used in "polearm" mode..

 

[Halcyon]

armagan mentioned something about that styo, apparently it is very hard, either on the engine, or in code to determine and track the "tip" of a weapon to model damage correctly. that is why we can also get couched with the haft of the lance.

 

[Reapy]

I think my brain would explode trying to determine at what point along the weapon model it was colliding with another object. Maybe a solution is to have multiple collision boxes on the weapon models, such that one is labeled as 'max damage' and another as mnimal damage. It would probably require a hell of a lot of revisiting code and art resources to do that though. Meh.

Also for the 2h vs 1h I think I meant position wise. If the bastard user holds a right swing out, and you have a 1h swadia sword, if you have the guy doing that over your left shoulder, you can start a left swing and immediately begin moving right and twisting the strike, you can generally beat out a bastard and up to sneak the hit in, but if the other guy has a 1 hander their release + twist will beat you to the punch.

I guess that is what I meant more so then if you stood there face to face with the same swing, really the fact that the speed difference is there, and it does scale 'correctly' was the ultimate point I guess I was trying to make.

 

[Styo]

armagan mentioned something about that styo, apparently it is very hard, either on the engine, or in code to determine and track the "tip" of a weapon to model damage correctly. that is why we can also get couched with the haft of the lance.

Ohhh all hail Armagan!

 

[Jess_the_Hobozerk]

Well, I think it's clear that something has to be changed about the turning into your attacks making 2handed weapons too fast for a sword and board to beat.

 

[Jean Plassy]

Two handed weapons are very badly implemented. A Great Axe is only slightly slower than a Fighting Pick  .

In reality swinging oversized behemoths around should come at great penalty for the fighter, especially at speed. No way this is going to be swung than something which has a fraction of the weight and by a reasonably skilled, non-mentally retarded hand.

 

[Jess_the_Hobozerk]

Two handed weapons are very badly implemented. A Great Axe is only slightly slower than a Fighting Pick  .

In reality swinging oversized behemoths around should come at great penalty for the fighter, especially at speed. No way this is going to be swung than something which has a fraction of the weight and by a reasonably skilled, non-mentally retarded hand.

I agree that those big weapons are too fast, they need to be a bit faster than the warhammer, and the warhammer needs to be increased a wee bit.

 

[Laszlo]

What about leaving attack speed the same, but doing 2 things:

1. Creating a delay before you can make your second swing (like AgentGB suggested in the other weapons thread) but not before you can block

2. Bringing back the stun

I mean, I hated the stun because I'd get permanently stunned in 1h sword vs. 2h sword/axe duels without shields. But fair enough! Because you're reeling from a massive blow from a heavy weapon. BUT, what ruined it was that the attacker could just keep spamming these powerful hits at high speed.
So basically, 2h heavy weapons got it both ways: they stunned their opponent but suffered no consequences for swinging a huge heavy weapon.
Instead, they should get the stun but shouldn't be able to spam attacks.

Currently:

ATTACK -> ATTACK
&
ATTACK -> BLOCK/PARRY

Version .711:

ATTACK+STUN -> ATTACK+STUN
&
ATTACK+STUN -> BLOCK/PARRY

What if....

ATTACK+STUN -> DELAY -> ATTACK
&
ATTACK+STUN -> BLOCK/PARRY


Just brainstorming...

 

[HULKSMASH]

This is what we need.

 

[Jess_the_Hobozerk]

This is what we need.

The stun doesn't make too much sense to add for me, however I always have pushed for that slight stun to start a second attack for a while now.

 

[Sir Tristran]

I get this, i understand what you mean by a SWING being faster. BUT someone weilding a 2h should NOT be able to retract a weapon after a powerful swing, because of a little, annoying thing called momentum. This also depends on balance of a weapon. Thus, 2h swords such as swadias are perfectly fine now, maybe a bit to fast to retract but meh. but Bardiches, Long axes, Glaves, 2h axes, are UNBALANCED eg Top heavy. So, if you were to swing a 2h axe, the momentum would stop you from immediatly retracting a weapon, no matter how heavily muscled you are. Alot of people dont realize how heavy axe heads are. I chop wood ALOT because i camp ALOT, and im in great physical condition, as i do alot of physical activites such as Varsity FB,Hunting, Wood chopping etc, but after swinging an axe, (which would be light compared to the long battle axes, not to mention that a battle axes head is MUCH bigger and MUCH much heavier)
It takes a few seconds to retract it, because of momentum. Now, it would take much more for the huge ass, heavy axes, not to mention when that warrior would be weighed down By stuff such as armor, helmets etc. A decent suit of Mail weighed about 10-20 pounds. Its not much, but add it up with other stuff average people in warband use in addition to the 2h/armor. All im saying is, someone with a 2h should have delay after a swing before being able to retract a swing, chamber it, and swing. Having a longer delay with Unbalanced weapons such as 2h Axes, Bardiches, etc. Oh, and the great long axes should be just plain removed, it Never existed and is plain unrealistic

Btw, Jesse, add me to your steam already! i sent you an invitation like a week ago lol

 

[Vornne]

As some others have said, I believe war axes were made lighter with a thinner blade than wood splitters. We already have the "unbalanced" tag on certain of the longer or heavier weapons which delays switching to blocking from attacking, and with all weapons the swing cannot be stopped after some point in the animation, about halfway or something.

Two handers generally don't need to be any slower, in my opinion. The next version should make all swings that hit towards the start and end of the animations deal less damage.

 

[Wiinis]

In my opinion, we ought to wait until the implementation of "sweet spots" in the next patch before getting too far in this discussion, see how it affects gameplay. Though, I guess this matter already has been discussed extensively.

Still, if I had to pick my favourites of the ideas that people have come up with, I'd go with the delay in the second swing right after the first, seems most sensible to me.

 

[Kodashi]

As others have stated, the aspects of two-handed weaponry that I feel largely overpowers them are how MouseSpin augments the weapon, and the time to ready attacks between each swing.

I'm probably only an average player at best, but after a couple of hours practicing the "lolspin" I found my k/d ratios change for the better almost immediately. 

Even though I feel like the MouseSpin Augments especially 2handers too well, I'd hate to see this aspect of footwork removed from the game as an important aspect of strategy.  I am hoping that the addition of "sweet spots" helps minimize the wonkiness while preserving the requirement of footwork as a vital basic in melee combat.

Additionally, I think that swing speeds should be largely untouched while a longer time to ready the weapon should be introduced for longer and heavier weapons.  Axes in particular should require a longer ready time since they are quite capable of crushing shields in the short order.  The same goes for maces and possibly picks.  Of course a different value should be applied to 1h and 2h versions.  I think this would help balance nicely with their secondary effects.

 

[Sir Tristran]

As some others have said, I believe war axes were made lighter with a thinner blade than wood splitters. We already have the "unbalanced" tag on certain of the longer or heavier weapons which delays switching to blocking from attacking, and with all weapons the swing cannot be stopped after some point in the animation, about halfway or something.

Two handers generally don't need to be any slower, in my opinion. The next version should make all swings that hit towards the start and end of the animations deal less damage.

They really werent lighter or thinner, as an axe NEEDS weight to be effective, its the whole reason its an axe. The back of an axe is Thick and heavy to provide heavier penetration and more damage on the swing. They weree very heavy. If you look thme up, axe headss, voulges, etc had VERY heavy heads. Unbalanced should simply make a 2h slower, faster on the swing, but slower to retract, chamber, and swing after a swing already. Balanced means the weight is properly spread evenly, so that, if you put the middle of a balanced weapon on a then board, prefectly in the middle, it wouldnt tip to either side. if you did this with an axe, well... you know what would happen lol.