Your Opinion on TW 'No confirmed information on up-coming patch content' Policy

[Virari]

Some people say thanks, others will attack me for taking holidays Some will defend most development decisions, others will take delays or shifts in content as lies, grifts, etc.

As all communities - it is diverse.

Given I'm new to these forums and I see a lot of hate, I'm just surprised you guys care enough even to come on still. I can see you love your game and want patches to come out with a lot of content, or content that's working and polished adequately.

But as you said, everyone's opinions are varied, different. Some thank you guys for continuing the updates and making it better some just hate none stop. and some are very critical about past wording or features that didn't make the cut in their vision or in time

In my own opinion, I love that you guys are working still, and who cares if you have holidays. We all do not gonna blame or hate you for that... but I would like at least a roadmap of features you know are 100% going to make it, even if it's not this patch or next it would be nice to see what is to come

And as all things do, some things may change but IMO it's better to have at least something for people to look forward to rather than wondering wondering wondering

Maybe when beta comes can you guys throw out one roadmap with clear wording " these things are subject to change but here's what we'd like to add/focus our efforts on in the months to come ( not next patch but MONTHS to come " xD and if things change just say why they changed or weren't able to be added

No matter what you do you'll always get hate though, that's the way of the world.

Thank you for making the game though, I love it. ( please fix the red eyes visual glitch, it bothers me so much so I don't play that often now xD )
To end it on, you've done amazing so far love the game but please make villages upgradable or allow us to do something to change them over time as it'll bring more depth into the game <3 ( even if u add it next year idc ^^

 

[Duh_TaleWorlds]

And not really knowing what will make it into the next patch... and then having to kind of guess what might be included, if we are lucky.

Not just the more general list of 'future desired / planned features'.

Your'e far from dumb...You know this. Lol ?

I think this is just you and me arguing over semantics. Basically, you made it too easy for me to argue against the "any idea" and my inner german went "Akshually".

I remember when we’d go months or almost a year without a dev blog. I think they did that so that now when they are doing their lackluster effort, they can say it is an improvement on the 2016 way of doing things.

Ah, yes, it must be a devious ploy. The true drought was before that though. And before that were the hallowed times.

We all do not gonna blame or hate you for that... but I would like at least a roadmap of features you know are 100% going to make it, even if it's not this patch or next it would be nice to see what is to come

The future plans post contains that information https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/future-plans.445840/

Nothing ever is 100%, but the items listed here are all still being pursued (if they haven't already been released).

To end it on, you've done amazing so far love the game but please make villages upgradable or allow us to do something to change them over time as it'll bring more depth into the game <3

This feature was dropped a long time ago (and announced as such pre-release) for a number of reasons - most of which are hearsay for me, because I wasn't there at the time. However, the two that I heard were a) no satisfactory degree of simulation was achieved and b) the management gameplay shifted towards centers due to the higher number of settlements in Bannerlord. At this time, it is highly unlikely that such a fundamental change would be made to the base game - especially as it would add further factors to a simulation that is still not performing as well as it may be desirable.

I do appreciate the kind words, though.

 

[Mad Vader]

While MostBlunted leans more towards one side of the spectrum, my personal impression is that people in general do expect that discussed / shown content that they want / care about makes it into the game asap or certainly on time (and in the way that they envisioned it) regardless of how many WIP or demo disclaimers, mights, woulds and coulds are added. Indeed, there will even be rather passionate arguments that there is a right to content that was not explicitly promised ("This was in a previous title!").

In a similar vein, even the much smaller scope of "what will be in the patch" has had its episodes of rather passionate reactions when some things didn't go as intended.

Regardless of how justified any of these positions are - they do exist and must imo be taken into account. From my perspective, the communication was less careful before and is more careful now. Both approaches have their benefits and drawbacks.

While I understand developer frustration over what they may think is unfair criticism, or outright toxic trolling and dev baiting, this is NOT a legitimate reason to close down on information on upcoming content.
The developers as a collective are expected to behave like professionals and not like aggrieved or resentful people who take things personally. It is the duty of the developers to disregard the worst and sometimes emotional feedback, and level with the majority of players which are always a fairly reasonable and respectful bunch, and expect to be treated as such - and that includes sharing information on upcoming content. The current policy of not sharing almost anything is ridiculous and unjustified, as proven by almost every other game dev team.

 

[Duh_TaleWorlds]

While I understand developer frustration over what they may think is unfair criticism, or outright toxic trolling and dev baiting, this is NOT a legitimate reason to close down on information on upcoming content.

To me, the reasoning is more along the lines of "less careful communication has caused frustration and disappointment, so let's communicate more carefully". I also personally don't like making promises on things that I'm not very sure on / don't have a high degree of control over.

It is the duty of the developers to disregard the worst and sometimes emotional feedback

It really isn't. An employees duty is to fulfill their contractual obligations. Everything beyond that is what they do on top. Naturally, those obligations include a reasonable conduct when interacting, but there is no general obligation to interact.

Edith: But maybe I'm misreading that and you mean "developers" as in "the development company" rather than individual devs.

 

[MostBlunted]

Plenty of people are meme-ing on "turkish holidays", most in jest, others not so much. But that's besides the point - I was simply stating that there are diverse characters and opinions in this community.

Yes, meme-ing, like the 4k sheep texture running gag. Sure there might be 2-3 idiots around here but that´s not the huge majority.

To me, the reasoning is more along the lines of "less careful communication has caused frustration and disappointment, so let's communicate more carefully". I also personally don't like making promises on things that I'm not very sure on / don't have a high degree of control over.

It´s not about careful communication it´s about zero communication.

Saying that a patch won´t be released this week is like no information.
Saying that a patch will be released when it´s ready is like no information.

What´s important:

Which core issue might be fixed with the next patch?
Which feature will you add with the next patch?
Which feature will be improved?
Are there major changes related to existing stuff?

Stuff like this, stuff like every normal company does, especially for EA games...

 

[Duh_TaleWorlds]

Yes, meme-ing, like the 4k sheep texture running gag. Sure there might be 2-3 idiots around here but that´s not the huge majority.

I find most of those posts discouraging / draining.

Saying that a patch won´t be released this week is like no information.
Saying that a patch will be released when it´s ready is like no information.

To you, maybe. Others have asked and continue to ask for just that information as well as "Why are you not releasing?". Personally, I don't enjoy sharing the "no patch" or "because there are remaining issues that block the release" lines. But I guess they at least provide you with material to meme.

Stuff like this, stuff like every normal company does, especially for EA games...

There are very varied approaches across companies and products, especially for EA games. Not that that means anything.

 

[black_bulldog]

@Duh_TaleWorlds So Taleworlds opinion is that it's better to withhold information because some people might get mad? If that's true then let me ask you a question. Why have an ea at all if you don't want community involvement? Your company stated and continues to state on the Steam page that you want to work with the community during the ea. Does working with the ea mean that we just report bugs and that's it or does it mean actually working with the community? Because communication is a 2 way street and yes not everyone is going to like everything you do all the time.
If people get upset about something missing so what? If people make mean posts about your company or you so what? If people call you liars so what? There is no one who has had to deal with customers who hasn't had to deal with criticism and if your company thinks that hiding their heads in the sand because people will be mean will make it all go away, then Taleworlds as a company needs to do a reality check. There are things in the game I think are great there are things in the game I think suck so what. It's an opinion you deal with peoples opinions and move on. But this company attitude of keeping your cards close to the vest is THE ONE THING that really pisses me off. I can deal with the perceived issues I have with the game but this bs is just childish. Taleworlds is burning bridges left and right and soon they're going to be left standing in a pile of ashes.

 

[MostBlunted]

I find most of those posts discouraging / draining.

So you like some of them!

Does working with the ea mean that we just report bugs and that's it

 

[Duh_TaleWorlds]

So Taleworlds opinion is that it's better to withhold information because some people might get mad?

No. That is not what I said.

Why have an ea at all if you don't want community involvement?

Not sharing the details of upcoming patch content is nowhere near that. There have been a number of closed tests, open tests, clear and obvious developer - community interactions (here, on discord, youtube, etc.), and quite a lot of suggestions that made it into the game.

Distorting reality to the degree that this question does is counter productive.

So you like some of them!

This did give me a chuckle. Dejans Avatar gives me vibes of one of those dead inside/people who know memes.

 

[Askorti]

How about showing off the cosmetic things like armors/weapons that are being worked on for the upcoming patch as they are being made? They seem like a pretty safe thing to share, with low chance of being cancelled, and unlikely to generate much outrage. But at the same time they would be a very easy to recall piece of interaction with the player base.

 

[Jur]

No. That is not what I said.


Not sharing the details of upcoming patch content is nowhere near that. There have been a number of closed tests, open tests, clear and obvious developer - community interactions (here, on discord, youtube, etc.), and quite a lot of suggestions that made it into the game.

Distorting reality to the degree that this question does is counter productive.


This did give me a chuckle. Dejans Avatar gives me vibes of one of those dead inside/people who know memes.
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It is not community that is at fault but leadership of TW. Developers just got caught in crossfire. You can deny as much as you want but for professional studio the tempo and content of updates are to small... And I again you are not to blame but your bosses.

 

[MostBlunted]

It is not community that is at fault but leadership of TW. Developers just got caught in crossfire.

True.

 

[$harz]

There have been a number of closed tests, open tests, clear and obvious developer - community interactions (here, on discord, youtube, etc.), and quite a lot of suggestions that made it into the game.

So are you going to adress all the problems submitted by the multiplayer players ?

 

[Jur]

Like @armagan promising in March 20,2020 to fix SA server that should mean something. If CEO of company says that they will fix something that should be trivial for the size of company of the size that TW is, they should do it. Or at least follow up on that why that wasn't possible...
And this isn't the only thing. Because of stuff like this people are bothered even by smaller things, because TW now have reputation of the company that you can't believe anything that they say...

 

[Duh_TaleWorlds]

It is not community that is at fault but leadership of TW. Developers just got caught in crossfire. You can deny as much as you want but for professional studio the tempo and content of updates are to small... And I again you are not to blame but your bosses.

I don't think I denied anything, though, I am certainly someone that is happy to voice disagreement. The company is developer run, there are no business suits that pull the strings. Different people are responsible for different things, but everyone has some responsibility. I am not unhappy with what we have achieved during EA. Would I like to have achieved more? Sure.

So are you going to adress all the problems submitted by the multiplayer players ?

I don't work on multiplayer, so I don't generally comment on its development. For one, I don't really know "all the problems submitted".

 

[JunKeteer]

Besides the above, as I know it was floated around re expectation on the end of EA being sometime this Q2 (?),...is that something that can be communicated with us on at least? Whether it is still TW's goal for that timing or if that is being shifted to later this year or if it is just better to remove that 'deadline' altogether so we temper our expectations (though maybe TW may see this is not their responsibility)?
As I feel the squeeze of that Q2 date and this recent hold on/expectation for this next patch is creating this unnecessary pressure where should it not be what we are hoping, will worsen the communication. As it's already looking like in general things are getting to that pitchfork time again it seems from recent posts.

 

[froggyluv]

Companies will try and get away with providing as little information as possible as to not be called out or held accountable by the fanbase. Normally the only motive (besides good faith) is future sales but if they've already scored massively financially in Pre-Sales or Early Access, that incentive is greatly minimized to nil as we see here. The rest is just talk.

 

[$harz]

I don't work on multiplayer, so I don't generally comment on its development. For one, I don't really know "all the problems submitted".

Are we playing the same game??

 

[Duh_TaleWorlds]

Are we playing the same game??

If you play singleplayer, we do. If you play multiplayer, we don't.

 

[IceNoVa]

Are we playing the same game??

There's been some news on NIN3's farewell post > here. He mainly focused on the new scenes and some minor fixes/changes, but there's quite extensive work on classes/perks/items going on that should drop with 1.7.2.

And well, not surprised to see duh not comment on MP, because that is not his department.