WWII Question

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Fall of Denial

Sergeant Knight
Was the Finnish on the Axis side?

Did British and Americans help invade Finland with Russia?

Thank you smart people.
 
Finland fought three wars in WWII, wasn't it? First alone against the USSR, after that with Axis help against the USSR and even later against Nazi Germany.
 
Durandal 说:
Check Wikipedia or some other similar source for more detail.

Those are what I meant, I sort of knew it, but I checked at wikipedia. I said I wasn't sure because 'pedia isn't always reliable.
 
The lappland war was merely a Show. Stories tell even about soldiers from both fronts chatting to each other during the hunt. Ofcourse the germans had to rage and plunder every village on their way out, but most it was a show. Every veteran I talked to about it has said that it was the easiest and funniest part of war. Only problem was food supplies, beacause the germans burned everything on their way.

And during the contiunation war the german help was mostly only equipment. It was the biggest single reason for good results forfinnish in that war. Finally we got deasent equipment. Tanks, guns and so on. They did send soldiers too, but not wery much. Mostly only equipment.

Eric_C
 
Isn't amazing that Small Finland was able to hold against Big Bear Soviet Union with conscripts greatly outnumbered?
 
Durandal 说:
And a rather incompetent Russian leadership.

Yeah, and thefact that during the winterwar most of the russian soldiers came from wery south part of russia. They did not have themotivation and they were not used to winter. They also didn't have deasent clothing to winter weathers. Stories tell about up to -40c degrees for almost a month. We finns were pretty used to such, but the southern russians weren't.

Of course the motivation played a big role too. Conserning that big deal of russian soldiers newer eaven heard of finland before the war compared to a bunch of finns defending their own homes. This can be seen still everyday on the news. Take russian war action in tsetsenia (or how you spell it), the american war at irak, or in vietnam some time in the past. Theres a huge difference if your defending your own home or if your trying to invade something unknown.

Eric_C
 
Fall of Denial 说:
Did British and Americans help invade Finland with Russia?
The British were laying plans for how to help Finland against the Soviet Union (this was before the outbreak of war, naturally), because before Hitler started grabbing territories, Bolschevism was the big menace in the eyes of the West. Churchill would probably have aided Finland if it hadn't been for the precarious situation with Hitler and Poland. Britain and France had both agreed to declare war against Germany if Germany invaded Poland, and aiding the Fins on top of all that would be too much of a strain on their resources. Besides, the Communists were Hitler's sworn enemy anyway, in spite of the non-aggression pact between him and Stalin, and Hitler would serve as a buffer.
 
The infantry and tankmen were incompetent aswell. Crews drove their tanks so fast that they left their infantry behind and unprotected from Finnish machinegun fire, the tanks itself were not protected by the infantry which allowed the Finns to literally crawl on the tank and rape it, and the people inside.
 
RaVeN 说:
The infantry and tankmen were incompetent aswell. Crews drove their tanks so fast that they left their infantry behind and unprotected from Finnish machinegun fire, the tanks itself were not protected by the infantry which allowed the Finns to literally crawl on the tank and rape it, and the people inside.

True! My grandfather has been telling couple of stories conserning tank killing. Finns often used pieces of birch to **** up the tracks of the t-34:s in this case. After that a molotov coctail into the engines intakes, where was no armor, and the engine itself was easy to burn. After the tank was stopped, it was easy to open it and throw couple of nades inside. Better yet, if the crew members tried to attac themselves out from the tank, Finns got and pretty deasent t-34 without ****ing it up more than the tracks, whitch are easy to fix of course.

Sorry for my bad english and my bad spelling.

Eric_C
 
There are books about the Winter War.  Winter of 1939-1940.  USSR invaded Finland to grab territory.  So it was national defense.  Finns fought on, severely outnumbered but expert in winter warfare, surrounding numerous Soviet columns and cutting them into battalion-size pockets, and doing raiding attacks on ski.  (Battle of Suomussalmi)

Stalin killed his best generals, by first accusing them of imaginary crimes, then saying they did commit those crimes  (i.e. a communist purge),  and had unjust execution of all of them.  To kill off anyone competent enough to potentially lead the country, that way he had complete safety of power.

So the Soviet troops did terrible in the Winter War.  If the Finns had enough reinforcements, they would have massacred the entire Soviet army in front of them.  But there were not enough people of military age to replace the dead Finns, even if the kill ratio was like 6 to 1.  The Soviets had tanks and air planes.  The Finns didn't.  So the Soviets got a piece of land on the Karelian peninsula, though considering their casualties it really wasn't much.

Finland is the country in the middle.  Karelian peninsula is all that is red on the bottom.
ceded1940.gif


That's the Winter War.  Quite glorious.  There are books about it (one titled "The Winter War"), really good read.  There is also a movie about it "Talvisota".  The cinematography is awesome.  Please watch it.


When Hitler invaded the USSR in June 1941, the Finns went into war as well.  They didn't go because they signed a pact with the Axis side, they went to war to recover the land that Stalin stole.
The Finns also have a military symbol that is a half-Swastika, but they had it as a Scandinavian symbol long before Hitler was born, and it has nothing to do with national socialism. 
fi-t50.jpg


So they fought until they recovered their land lost in the Winter War.  Then they stopped just outside of Leningrad, tying up many Soviet units, but not actively fighting/invading for the Germans.
Later the Germans lost the Battle of Kursk 1943 (Stalingrad 1942 was bad, but not as bad as Kursk) and the tide turned.  So the Soviets invaded Finland again, and they fought the Soviets to a ceasefire.

movie: Tali-Ihantala    I actually haven't read any book on the Continuation War, but it should be very interesting.


I know nothing about the Lapland War till today.  I don't think the Finns really fought the Germans because the Germans never occupied Finland (the Finns were as good as, or better fighters than, the Germans) and as far as I know the only German units inside Finland were "lend-lease" Luftwaffe units.  The Germans also sold to Finland (I don't think they gave for free) quality materiel like anti-tank weapons (Panzerfaust and Panzerschreck) and assault guns (Sturmgeschütz), which consist of a non-rotating turret built on the tracks of a tank.  It is way harder to maneuver in combat since you have to rotate the entire vehicle, but it is cheaper and faster to manufacture.  Without those, the Finns would have had a difficult time stopping the T-34s, who were much better built than the T-70 and T-26 of the Winter War.  So I really don't think the Finns would fight the Germans when the latter helped them survive the hordes of Stalin.
 
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