ell_geezy 说:
kingofnoobia 说:
Or you could just use an axe. Most factions have twohanders that are suited to deal efficiently with shield users. A great axe or bardiche (the short version, it's considerably better against facehuggers) will make short work of even high quality shields in 10-15 blows or so.
True but what about poor old swadia and there great swords or indeed bastard swords..... They have virtually nothing to counteract a turtle now. No Block crush or bonus vs shield weapons. There has to be a somewhat other means of effectively fighting a turtle who has the common sense to know that no matter how well you feint all they have to do is wait until they here a big clunk on there shield before swinging.
Uthred
I thought about that, and I don't think it's a problem. Swadia has plenty unique weapons. They are the only ones who get access to the extremely powerful two-handed swords and great lances. So they are balanced in a number of ways:
1. Swadian infantry may have a harder time against shield users, this balances out the fact that Swadian infantry is probably the best unit to use against other twohanders, due to the powerful swords.
2. Swadians have plenty of other ways to fight turtles. The powerful cavalry and versatile crossbowmen count for something. So if you don't have any particulary skilled footmen on your team, use other classes and teamwork to overcome them. Swadia is good all-round, use that to your advantage.
3. The only faction's shield users Swadia really has a problem with are the Nords, because they have one handed axes and some of the best shields. This is largely justified, because the Huscarl is the Nords' primary unit, while Swadians' is the Man-at-Arms, Nords are
the infantry faction after all. Perhaps this goes for Sarranids as well, to some degree. However, against all other factions, Swadia is more or less on par when fighting shield vs shield, meaning that they can counter, or at least defend against, the style with exactly the same style.
4. You can say whatever you want, Swadian Infantry is, in my opinion, not
that bad against shield users. The two-handed sword is capable of breaking most shields. I'll admit that breaking a Huscarl's Round Shield or a Heavy Board Shield is tedious to say the least, but for any other faction, the twohanders are just fine.
So I think it's fair to say that it isn't exactly a problem for Swadia that kick became harder. In fact, omnipresent kick was quite a major imbalance, because it caused their infantry to be on par with, or even have the edge over, Nord Huscarls. Before 1.130 many people complained that Swadia is way overpowered, I don't think anyone can claim with a straight face that they are now the underdogs of the game.
@Harlequin: Why shield turtles aren't a problem for the Khanate is so glaringly obvious that I'm surprised I actually have to explain. Even if we are going to ignore the large number of maps where Khergits equal 75% victory rate, and cut straight to foot combat, there is no reason why they are underpowered due to the lack of an easy-as-pie kick. First of all: Khergits aren't meant as infantry. They can fight on foot, but they suck at it. Not just against shield users, against everything. They are just as weak against a twohander as against a shield user. It's not a matter of them having problems fighting shield users on foot, it's a matter of them having a problem fighting infantry in general, when they aren't mounted.
That said, the onehanded axes are still reasonable weapons against shield users. They aren't excellent, but if you are a good deal better than your opponent, you can still win. It is justified that, if you are Khergit, you need to be a good deal better than your opponent if you want to beat him in a straight one on one in foot combat. Again, with kick as in 1.127, Khergit infantry was quite a lot more powerful than justified, in regards to their powerful cavalry/horse archer combination.
Secondly, apart from maps like Village or a siege map, Khergits have absolutely no issue with shield users. High mobility and speed outmanoeuvre turtles, a pure shield user is irrelevant during the entire battle, as the Khergits first pick off enemy cavalry and archers, then bear down upon the defenseless shield users.
Also, Harlequin, you're making a major drama out of this. You were one of the first to go all "lern2play" over anyone that said anything about kickslash back in the days, saying that we should all adapt to the new system and that it was perfectly fine. Everyone of course knew that you only acted so because is extremely deeply implemented into your style, and that it doubles your efficiency. Now that kickslash has been made harder, you've been whining in every single thread about it. The difference with the people you used to complain against is that you don't have any sensible arguments. Your posts consist of a single sentence, more often than not a repetition of something someone else just said. Apart from this hypocrisy, what is perhaps the most irritating is that you aren't even a bad player without kick. I know you block and feint very well, and I believe that you're probably damn well capable of beating most turtles without even touching the kick button. I can understand that you are irritated that you lose efficiency, but at least be consistent in your principles.
i like it as it is now, before u could kick any one easy, some times even when they were trying to back peddle(i play cRPG so AGI can catch me in a kick). but now its only for use if they are literally in your face. just an opinion, i used kick more in native but i use sword and board in cRPG(archers *were* OP).
