WPL2 Map Discussion

[Aura (Zaffa)]

      Purpose of Thread​

Since having a single discussion thread never works and the admins of the tourney still haven't put up a child's board, I decided to go ahead and make a separate thread for this subset of issues. This thread is for discussion solely about maps for the upcoming tournament. Possible discussions include:

• Which maps should be in the tournament
• How maps can be improved that are presently in the scene
• How maps should be categorized (e.g. Open/Mixed vs Open/Mixed/Closed vs no categories)
• How maps should be picked each week (e.g. fixtures, pick/ban, etc.)
• Etc.

 

[Ebdanian Admiral]

Considering that it looks like picks and bans the bigger the map pool the better.

It would also be neat if we could see a rule where teams couldn't pick the same map two weeks in a row. Hopefully something like this would lead to some variety and stop maps like Verloren and Reveran from being picked every week.

 

[KoA John]

Heres a few maps that have problems that need fixed before being used in WPL or any tournament really, in my opinion


New port assault (still imbalanced docks)
Back to back (super op corner flag)
Frosty Battle (still has stupid hill climbing and ruins is op covering 2 1/2 flags)
Field by the river (really big, needs updated version with big field flag)
Driecksdorf (open or closed?)
Fort of Honor (back corner flag is too op, and broken staircase glitch into side building)
Sandiboush (Love it, but still a campfest)

 

[Ebdanian Admiral]

Driecksdorf (open or closed?)

Now that we are doing picks and bans I think map classification matters much less. I would also love to see back to back eradicated from the face of the earth.

 

[Bubs]

Please put Reveran Village back in. I'm really wondering what idiot(s) made the executive decision on not allowing it to be played on in recent tournaments.

 

[Firunien]

I think there should be 3 Classes of maps where there are 5 in each. Each team should get i think 3 or 4 Bans. I think there should be some classic maps and a few where you need to invent nice strats for.
I didnt put Sandi in because its kind of got too old at least for my taste

Open :
-Field by The River(big field flag of course)
-Silk Road
-River Village
-Ruins
- A new or not often used map


Mixed :
-Castellum
-Reveran Village (maybe change the open flag for it to become mixed)
-Frosthaven
-Mountain Fortress
-A new or not often used map


Closed :
-Fort of Hounor
-Verloren
-Nord Town
-Naval Outpost
-A new or not often used map


I would also like you to consider my own Tannenberg as closed map, i spent two tourney collecting feedback and changing accordingly.
There is  the newest version (just silghtly decluttered from the NASL version)

Spoiler

http://forum.guardofistiniar.org/index.php?topic=10058.msg126422#msg126422

 

[Ebdanian Admiral]

Spoiler

Open :
-Field by The River(big field flag of course)
-Silk Road
-River Village
-Ruins
- A new or not often used map


Mixed :
-Castellum
-Reveran Village (maybe change the open flag for it to become mixed)
-Frosthaven
-Mountain Fortress
-A new or not often used map


Closed :
-Fort of Hounor
-Verloren
-Nord Town
-Naval Outpost
-A new or not often used map

A pretty good list tbh. Maybe replace Naval Outpost with Legacy Town? I think Drieksdorf deserves a spot somewhere on there as well. Also Hepburn forest would make a decent open map as opposed to Silk Road.

Regarding Tannenburg, I personally love the map, but I feel like its going to be a really common ban by good open map teams due to its cramped nature. With that said I would still like to see it as an option. Its not like we need to set an arbitrary limit on how many maps we end up including.

 

[Thunderbeu]

I think with picks and bans we go with a CS:GO approach to maps, we have 7 maps in total I don't always think a huge variety is a good thing as by the time it got to elims most teams were only picking a select few in past tournies.

 

[_Osiris_]

I think the ladder stage should be fixtures so we can add in maps that are not seen often like Tannenburg and give them some showing and then have the double elimination stage as picks and bans. I think its best of both worlds. we get to try out new and lesser seen maps and still have the tactical bans etc when it really matters

 

[Ebdanian Admiral]

I think with picks and bans we go with a CS:GO approach to maps, we have 7 maps in total I don't always think a huge variety is a good thing as by the time it got to elims most teams were only picking a select few in past tournies.

Completely true in an 8 or 9 team tournament, but considering that we are looking at potentially over 30 teams and a 6 week group stage 7 maps would get stale for both players and streamers extremely quickly. Check my math but 15 matches per week with 2 maps per match means that there will be over 180 maps played during the regular season. I don't think having only 7 or 8 maps available total would be a good thing in this situation, especially if we go with the suggestion that was brought up earlier where a team can't pick the same map 2 weeks in a row.

 

[_Osiris_]

i think same day map picks and bans will be far worse to be honest and i think giving teams no chance to practice will lower the quality of the tournament. Problem with pick bans is we see the same maps over and over week in week out like we did in EU, If you go down the pick ban route i think it would need to be modified (pick and bans also lead to heavily one sided maps as ive seen in previous matches)

 

[_Osiris_]

i cant remember maps ever being picked 30 seconds before an official . Map picking just leads to stuff like BeNe vs UK which went 6-1 2-6

 

[_Osiris_]

dont we want teams to be prepared and play to their best? 30 seconds just leads to CHAARGE FOLLOW ME tactics. at least do the pick bans with enough time for a training match or two

 

[Ebdanian Admiral]

dont we want teams to be prepared and play to their best? 30 seconds just leads to CHAARGE FOLLOW ME tactics. at least do the pick bans with enough time for a training match or two

If we did picks and bans it would be done days in advance just like in scramble league. Furthermore with instant flags the tactics will be mostly what you described anyway, with or without fixtures.

 

[_Osiris_]

dont we want teams to be prepared and play to their best? 30 seconds just leads to CHAARGE FOLLOW ME tactics. at least do the pick bans with enough time for a training match or two

If we did picks and bans it would be done days in advance just like in scramble league. Furthermore with instant flags the tactics will be mostly what you described anyway, with or without fixtures.

Ruleset says otherwise. says it will be done on the day unless i misread


i think creating tactics and judging your strengths and enemies weaknesses and coming up with different tactics to suit is as big a part of skill as adapting and making stuff up as you go along. I also think you can pretty much say rip to any less experienced teams who haven't played each map for years and know them all back to front. But i can see we have differing views that wont meet anywhere

 

[Firunien]

Regarding the size of the mappool it shouldnt compare to CSGO in case of size, its to repetetiv.

 

[Ebdanian Admiral]

Ruleset says otherwise. says it will be done on the day unless i misread

Good catch, it still doesn't change the fact that each team will have a few maps they plan on picking going into the picks and bans.

Honestly it doesn't matter when a team picks a certain map during the course of the week. If the team has a good captain they will have prepared for several different maps and situations based on what they think the opponent will pick and ban, as well as the map they themselves want to pick.

My point is that that good teams wont be going into this completely blind because of some banned maps, and if they are caught unaware by a map they have played on 1000 times against the same teams they have been playing against since 2013 its probably their captains fault and not the tournament settings. 

 

[_Osiris_]

true but its also a massive disadvantage for all these new teams we want to entice

 

[Gorlock]

As long as legacy town isnt there, I dont care 

 

[Kragen]

Map pool: ~12 good maps (make a poll)

Spoiler: Suggested Maps

-Field by The River
-River Village
-Ruins
-Amere Village

-Castellum
-Reveran Village (Smileys Version)
-Frosthaven
-Prison Hill
-Desolation Valley

-Mountain Fortress
-Fort of Honour
-Verloren
-SandiBush
-Naval Outpost

Picknight: on Monday; 3-4bans per team
Matches: on Weekend
Roundtime: 3:00
Flagspawn: 2:00
Combat-Speed: Medium
Hacks: Deactivated
LAN: No

No problem