If it's information that the team members that are alive already know, then why don't they communicate it themselves?
The idea behind a mutual restriction on this type of ghosting is to add a desirable trait of realism to the game-play, in which if you are dead... you're dead, and dead men don't speak. The point is to let the people that are still alive win the round through their own means, much like you would have to if this were real, in this particular case, Sota should have communicated that Achilles was shooting, not Vorn. Now of course, this is a game, so really you can say whatever you want in ts when you are dead, but this is something that the community back then decided was a good addition to the way matches should be played, and mutually agreed to respect this unwritten rule. At least it was a thing that was accepted back then, maybe it's changed now or the newer players were never told, not sure what happened there. Anyway, I suppose now you could just call it an improvised RP element to matches.
I agree, in these particular cases, Vorn's calls were rather inconsequential, and wouldn't have really changed the outcome of the match. But what you can't say is that there isn't a potential for these type of calls to actually save a teammate's life, potentially also in a very important situation, that's the bigger picture, and why doing it at all is scummy if a majority of us still subjecting ourselves to the slight disadvantage by respecting this unwritten rule. At this point maybe we should all stop doing it now?
I know from our own scrimming experience that there have been many times where we just watch one of our guys get slaughtered by someone he did not see but we did (while we were dead), and out of respect of this old traditional unwritten rule, we let the game play out without saying it as it should be, and let him die as the warband gods willed it. Ghosting in this way would have prevented quite a few kills actually, especially on archers that use the zoom constantly that cuts out their field of vision that you don't get to see as a spectator. You could potentially be calling out something on the corner of YOUR screen that they weren't seeing themselves because they were zooming in on someone else on THEIR screen. On top of that, viewing someone from a player perspective allows you to control the Y axis fully, so if they are fighting someone under a staircase, you could watch your teammates back for him, informing him on views he isn't actually seeing himself.
Example
You could literally just let him ground feint against someone and just have a dead teammate that is locked onto him inform him of everything happening on the stairs without the help of anyone else alive, potentially calling out an archer shot that he had no way of knowing was going to be directed at him.
Because of these possibilities, I think the argument "It's fine and not ghosting because you can only see what your teammate is seeing" is flawed and untrue. It would be true if Locked to team member's view followed both the x axis and y axis, as well as zooming in whenever your teammate zooms in, otherwise, you have the ability to see things that he isn't actually seeing. Again, this is a problem because of a flawed spectating system that allows it to happen, so the blame cannot be placed entirely on individual players.
Alright now that the explaining is out of the way... given that enforcing a rule against such ghosting would be difficult and tedious, we could all just take the easier route and dismantle the entire ghosting meta and declare an open season for this type of ghosting. If you see anything helpful through your teammate view, you can call it out now, it's absolutely no longer considered ghosting anymore by any means. Be freeeeeeee! Make the Dead Spectator Class Great Again!
The idea behind a mutual restriction on this type of ghosting is to add a desirable trait of realism to the game-play, in which if you are dead... you're dead, and dead men don't speak. The point is to let the people that are still alive win the round through their own means, much like you would have to if this were real, in this particular case, Sota should have communicated that Achilles was shooting, not Vorn. Now of course, this is a game, so really you can say whatever you want in ts when you are dead, but this is something that the community back then decided was a good addition to the way matches should be played, and mutually agreed to respect this unwritten rule. At least it was a thing that was accepted back then, maybe it's changed now or the newer players were never told, not sure what happened there. Anyway, I suppose now you could just call it an improvised RP element to matches.
Guaccmoleboy said:
Your examples of the things you would say if your screen blacked out already fall in line with the ghosting meta that has been used for over 5 years now. What you would say wouldn't even count as ghosting right now anyway.Fidel Lagstro said:
Guaccmoleboy said:
I agree, in these particular cases, Vorn's calls were rather inconsequential, and wouldn't have really changed the outcome of the match. But what you can't say is that there isn't a potential for these type of calls to actually save a teammate's life, potentially also in a very important situation, that's the bigger picture, and why doing it at all is scummy if a majority of us still subjecting ourselves to the slight disadvantage by respecting this unwritten rule. At this point maybe we should all stop doing it now?
I know from our own scrimming experience that there have been many times where we just watch one of our guys get slaughtered by someone he did not see but we did (while we were dead), and out of respect of this old traditional unwritten rule, we let the game play out without saying it as it should be, and let him die as the warband gods willed it. Ghosting in this way would have prevented quite a few kills actually, especially on archers that use the zoom constantly that cuts out their field of vision that you don't get to see as a spectator. You could potentially be calling out something on the corner of YOUR screen that they weren't seeing themselves because they were zooming in on someone else on THEIR screen. On top of that, viewing someone from a player perspective allows you to control the Y axis fully, so if they are fighting someone under a staircase, you could watch your teammates back for him, informing him on views he isn't actually seeing himself.
Example
You could literally just let him ground feint against someone and just have a dead teammate that is locked onto him inform him of everything happening on the stairs without the help of anyone else alive, potentially calling out an archer shot that he had no way of knowing was going to be directed at him.
Because of these possibilities, I think the argument "It's fine and not ghosting because you can only see what your teammate is seeing" is flawed and untrue. It would be true if Locked to team member's view followed both the x axis and y axis, as well as zooming in whenever your teammate zooms in, otherwise, you have the ability to see things that he isn't actually seeing. Again, this is a problem because of a flawed spectating system that allows it to happen, so the blame cannot be placed entirely on individual players.
Alright now that the explaining is out of the way... given that enforcing a rule against such ghosting would be difficult and tedious, we could all just take the easier route and dismantle the entire ghosting meta and declare an open season for this type of ghosting. If you see anything helpful through your teammate view, you can call it out now, it's absolutely no longer considered ghosting anymore by any means. Be freeeeeeee! Make the Dead Spectator Class Great Again!
