Would Total War-esque battles improve performance?

[Cochus1]

Total war battles are more aesthetic than bannerlord, but less realistic. Anyway, i think they could take some interesting ideas from TW games that would help them to keep performance in certain situations and give a cohesion feeling.

 

[Reiksmarshal]

The one thing I think TW could learn from Total War is how pikes are use and some of the formations like shield castle in Thrones of Britannia.

Pikes in Total War


Shield Castle Formation


Total war does a better job at formation on formation collision imo.

 

[Sheepify]

I'd rather wait to see what combat AI and formation AI improvements result in first.

Warband combat was far more interesting and engaging than TW's battles to me - and a lot of it had with the fact that once your units went into a fight, they stopped acting like directly-controlled automatons and did their things. Sometimes for the better, sometimes to hilarious "wtfbbq" effect, but always interesting.

 

[mserhatbalik]

It seems like shields actually hinder unit's performance instead of improving.

 

[AverageSturgian]

units in m&b are unaware of the space needed for their own weapons, no respect for even their allies need for space to operate, no concept of friendly fire. how much of this is possible to do without destroying everyones cpu's? I have no clue, but maybe some of it could be faked well enough.

This is one of the most possible explanations about blobbing. Units don't seem to understand space around them. For example. If you fight and the Ai is coming after you, you can go hide behind a tree and the Ai will go and sit on the other side of the tree trying to attack you. If you do not move the Ai will stay there and attack the tree. It is like the AI locks on a target and goes straight to it.

I have no idea how difficult it is to code an algorithm which helps the AI understand space and especially when this algorith will affect individually 1000+ troops. However, taking as reference Total War Games (which i am a big big fan since my childhood), now it is possible to draw the path of your units.

So if formations had somethinng like an orientiation-movement system, maybe blobbing could be mitigated a bit....

 

[HeIsHephaestion]

Has anyone here played the paid warband mod on steam called Han/Xiongnu Wars?
It had pretty fantastic formation AI with and option to zoom out and issue commands in an (albeit clunky) birds eye view.

 

[froggyluv]

I love Total War but they are just dice rolls with unit animations playing it out where as is in this series every swing, block and movement is in real time -totally different animal. Frankly im surprised how well this game handles that kinda minutia with so many units at a decent level

 

[Pensaci]

Sergeant, take over command!

Yep. Every time I hear that I tend to think of a squad like mechanic that group single soldiers into 1 unit. Kinda could extends on existing formation mechanic? The similarity is how army work already with each nobles command their own, which is the feudal way as well ofc. Especially since the setting is surrounding a empire base on late Roman Empire. A proper legion!

In terms of camera tho the bird eye or top down view is quiet different point. The main difference of perspective between M&B and TW in battles is the positioning imo. Well, in the end cold weapon battles can be quiet the same tbh.

I think the big thing is performance actually. From my understanding it would since this will reduce the amount of single solders. And CPU is the bottle neck for me.

 

[Billy Peach]

one thing that might help is that it is okay to have units in the back ranks doing nothing, unlike how now charge results in a disorganized mess, and formations collapse on contact with opponents. deep ranks were noted to boost morale heavily, thinner formations might have maximized your active combatants, but broke very easily. they could relieve exhausted or wounded allies and they also provided protection in case of a flank.

Although I agree with the sentiment, you should play around more with formations. They are reasonably complex. If you keep the units in a shield wall they keep their line. When you put them in a line formation (which they are in automatically) they try to wrap around the enemy and they lose formation. Skein while following you makes them attack while charging but not get into one on one combat. Advancing or holding keeps them in formation, they fall out of formation when you have them charge.
You can also choose the width and length of the formations when telling where to go.

TBH, it gets pretty hectic with four unit groups. When you cant slow down time like TW it would be near impossible to control eight unit groups especially when you're in the thick of it. I think that is why the devs implemented AI unit leaders when you're in an army.

I'm not sure if you had the luck of being able to play the BETA but I found that most other players were really helpful when explaining formations in captain mode, I wouldn't have had any clue otherwise.

 

[kweassa]

I think the day TW integrates a bird eye view and control to the troops, this game will be taken to another level.

I'm not sure people would want to be on that level, because that's not what the game is about.

Total War provides battles at a macro perspective. Even with a lot of restrictions and realism settings on, it doesn't change the fact that you, as the commander, know everything that's happening around from a birds-eye-view instantly.

Mount and Blade series, was always about the personal experience, in the first-person, as a single solder actually standing on the field. And the view from the perspective of that single person is very different from the entire order of battle and formation info made available via a tactical screen. Stand behind the ranks of your own men, and immediately you are engulfed with lack of clear sight. You have no way of knowing how the enemy is positioned over that hill or forest (well, left+ALT ruins it a lot, but it does provide only limited info, thankfully...).

This means, commanding an army as the person that's actually part of that combat on the field, can never be the same as commanding an army from a perspective that offers the entire view of the battlefield.

I love both Total War and M&B franchises, but for different reasons, and I really don't need to have this game homogenized under the standards of a different game, that's supposed to be played differently.