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World Economy vs Gear Economy

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26 hours in and I think I broke the game. i love it, but, it's now definitely broken. I've got two issues with the economy that others are talking about elsewhere, but I'll outline how one fix might help both issues. Without the fix, I'm not playing Bannerlord, I'm playing GodSmith Simulator 1000.:

Costs and incomes regarding fiefs, worrkshops, NPC wages, trading, caravans, and tournaments all seem congruent and consistent with the world (though tournaments don't come with a purse?).

However, the gear economy makes no sense in relation to that same world. Store prices: no way can troops afford their own gear at those prices. Player-forged prices: no way should I be able to make multiple 5 or 6 figure items in a single day and later buy whole kingdoms ("everything has a price").

Rough fix: shave a zero off all gear prices! Seriously, how do multiple $30,000 bows exist? You would have to win 30 tournaments, run a level 1 shop for 200 days, sell 1,000 trade goods on a $30 profit margin, etc to buy a single bow! No one would be buying or making these.

On the smithing end, I shouldn't be able to drain the pockets of an entire market in a town of thousands just by selling a handful of home-forged swords. Even my $2,000 two-handed swords should only sell for like $200 if any poor old Falxman is going to afford it.

If gear costs are intended to limit player progression, no problem: make gear break same as horses do when they're defeated (not dead), or something like that. Your character is defeated? Some of your equipped gear is damaged for % performance reduction (maybe give it a "damaged" tag, like how some weapons have "rusty" in the title). While we're at it, buff smithing (after product values have been reduced as above) by letting smiths fix damaged gear.

TL/DR please fix this! Let us buy top-tier weapons at reasonable prices, and let us sell top-tier items at same reasonable prices! There are much much more interesting ways for us to gain and spend money in this game without saving for eons to get fancy gear on us and our companions, and without spending a day in a shop to unlock kingdoms' treasuries of wealth.

(Ps a more granular fix would adjust prices on a curve. The top 1% of gear would have prices cut by 90%; at the midpoint, prices would be cut by 45%; and the bottom 1% of gear prices would see 0% cut, or no adjustment at all.)
 
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Tryvenyal

Squire
Agreed! And troop- prices should go the other way - especially elite troops should be really expensive compared to how it is.
 

Midnitewolf

Sergeant
I agree for the most part. Something needs to change. It shouldn't take 300 in game days to see decent armor showing up for sale and it shouldn't cost 100k or more to buy it when it does. If there has to be a money sink, increase troop wage costs or the cost of upgrading troops or something.

I also like the idea of armor and items needing maintenance as a money sink. Make it so that I can buy the best armor in the game for 10k but after maybe a dozen battles, I have to spend 5k to fix it or risk it being broken and rendered unusable and unrecoverable. Also feel free to give me less loot after a battle but make it actually be useful loot instead of tons of battered, broken, busted and otherwise useless stuff I will only ever sell not use. Bring the cost of these items down that even the best sword is only worth 10-15k and even if I do get it as loot, it doesn't break the economy, especially in conjunction with having to spend a fair amount of money just upkeeping my armor and equipment.

Anything but what we currently have because what we have is so broken and un fun that I want to cry every time I play.
 
I agree for the most part. Something needs to change. It shouldn't take 300 in game days to see decent armor showing up for sale and it shouldn't cost 100k or more to buy it when it does. If there has to be a money sink, increase troop wage costs or the cost of upgrading troops or something.

I also like the idea of armor and items needing maintenance as a money sink. Make it so that I can buy the best armor in the game for 10k but after maybe a dozen battles, I have to spend 5k to fix it or risk it being broken and rendered unusable and unrecoverable. Also feel free to give me less loot after a battle but make it actually be useful loot instead of tons of battered, broken, busted and otherwise useless stuff I will only ever sell not use. Bring the cost of these items down that even the best sword is only worth 10-15k and even if I do get it as loot, it doesn't break the economy, especially in conjunction with having to spend a fair amount of money just upkeeping my armor and equipment.

Anything but what we currently have because what we have is so broken and un fun that I want to cry every time I play.
+1 on this. I find troops to be way more prized/useful than gear; I'll take increased Tier 4-6 troop costs with decreased gear costs any day, and I think it's one of the most significant economic changes that can/should be made in the game.

Attenuating gear costs would also ameliorate the smithing exploit, as those weapons are waaay over-valued in the current game-ified economy. Adding in a personal or companion gear-maintenance system would both diversify smithing's utility, and be a very reasonable buff after debuffing the financial exploit. (As an example, there could be an added cost to maintaining personal/companion's gear, with more valuable gear accruing a higher cost much like troops and troop wages. It could be tied to item tier. Then, higher smithing might apply a reduction to this cost, much like the other cost-reducing perks/skills. Failure to pay this cost could result not in debt, but in an increasing likelihood that your gear or that of your companions starts accruing debuffs. And, perhaps smithing could remove those debuffs through crafting and materials).
 

Pensaci

Sergeant
Especially agree on the point there is two separate economy existing in the game, that are very inconsistent to each other.

So like the most direct point I think, is you have this Empire's lament armor which is around 220k D$, which is a relevantly insane value, yet you can see these shining metal on best soldiers for only 12-18 D$ wage a day, however which is a relevantly reasonable wage for itself.
 
Yes 🙌 agree with both suggestions. Lower gear prices and increase troop prices. This will reduce loot income, offset this with more tax income for fiefs.
Extra benefit: than you have to take care of you villages, now you can let them be raided and make up the loss from the loot income
 
ECONOMY , LOGISTICS and WARFARE SUGGESTION LIST
This link leads to 4 threads linked together.
2 of these are interested in the topic covered in this thread and specifically want to offer a solution to 3 problems:
1) prices crazy and disconnected from the economy, consequently a more "physical" view of the economy is offered.
2) maintenance of personal and army equipment and maintenance costs of the latter, durability of equipment and loot.
3) rework of the smithing skill by adapting it to point 2. This also allows you to change the loot system.
From the battlefield, you get EVERYTHING that dead enemies had, but you get it in a bad condition.
If you have a lot of party locksmiths and / or are one of them, you can fix all this stuff at a reduced price.
You could repair high-tier equipment by finding it in poor condition and with the right materials, saving money compared to having it repaired by a blacksmith or buying it new.
 
Please no to gear maintenance, I cannot be f'd having to repair my gear and my companions. I remember it in the oblivion series for magic items and it was a drag.
 

andycott

Sergeant
Currently there is no balance. It's a complex problem, which affects too many important things in the game.

All this should be reworked very carefully and implemented when tight balance is found. Otherwise it can lead only to new bigger problems in that same balance. It's not that easy to make good changes in such an aspect. But it's need to be done sooner or later.

In particular there should exist luxury, named, etc. way too expensive things with some unique, but realistic stats. And these should only be available to unique characters, like our hero and companions, kings and generals, etc., but not to any type of hired or upgradable troops, even elite.
Troop upgrade system is broken and should be reworked too. It's way too easy and cheap to upgrade right now, especially top tier soldiers with this enormously expensive gear. 😑
Also all these changes should affect AI.
 
Please no to gear maintenance, I cannot be f'd having to repair my gear and my companions. I remember it in the oblivion series for magic items and it was a drag.
+1

I'm fine with a "maintenance" fee being added to my daily costs, but please don't make me keep track of the condition of everybody's gear.
 

Hexnibbler

Recruit
I agree with the issue but I disagree with the idea of gear "breaking".

Right now most money comes from loot acquired from battle. It's a 10-50k per battle won. It makes "income" relatively irrelevant and you can easily keep your income with thousands denars in the "red" per day. I'm playing ironman / bannerlord difficulty, most of the "loot money" comes from the armor category (fighting sturgia/vlandia mostly but I assume it's across the board)

The problem is that is "shadows" every other income source from the game : quests, fiefs, workshops, trading, raiding, ransoming, etc.
 
I agree with the issue but I disagree with the idea of gear "breaking".

Right now most money comes from loot acquired from battle. It's a 10-50k per battle won. It makes "income" relatively irrelevant and you can easily keep your income with thousands denars in the "red" per day. I'm playing ironman / bannerlord difficulty, most of the "loot money" comes from the armor category (fighting sturgia/vlandia mostly but I assume it's across the board)

The problem is that is "shadows" every other income source from the game : quests, fiefs, workshops, trading, raiding, ransoming, etc.
Yes, I hope this is balanced towards lower loot income coupled with a fewer big battles and much higher tax income and troop upgrade/upkeep cost.
As a benefit raiding a village will seriously effect the enemies income
 

Tryvenyal

Squire
Yes, I hope this is balanced towards lower loot income coupled with a fewer big battles and much higher tax income and troop upgrade/upkeep cost.
As a benefit raiding a village will seriously effect the enemies income
This!

The full picture in just 2 lines! :smile:
 

The Yogi

Squire
M&BWB
I agree and have posted in the same vein of thought - the money sink should be your army, not your personal gear. But I'd like to add, for those who want to own that exorbitantly expensive piece of gear more than they want to conquer an Empire - prices for weapons and armour were historically much less linked to function than to style. Consider this - even a cheap sword will kill an unprotected man as surely as Excalibur. An ultra-high quality sword might more easily penetrate low grade armour (gambesons and the such) and might hold up a little better against nicks, breaking or bending - but it won't actually deal any more damage. Yet it would probably have been vastly more expensive, even unadorned. If we then add in a gilted and bejeweled hilt and scabbard, a silk-wrapped handle and cunningly inlaid gold filigrane on the blade... then we might have to pay a kings ransom to own it. And it still won't kill any deader than a cheap sword for a peasant for 2 shilling.

It's a little less style over substance for armour, but basicly, you wouldn't have been vastly better protected by top grade armour than by decent mass-produced gear - just more comfy and above all, stylish!

The differences in prices can and should be dictated by quality of function, yes, up to 10 or 20 on a 1000 grade scale. Thereafter, it's all about the style and bling!
 
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