Workshops [How the work]

[Korven]

I would like to see the code to understand how they work.

Test: Ocs Hall
Towns: Hardwood, Clay, Flax

Shop money/day:
Tannery: Day1 77 / D2 206 / D3 224 / D4 330 / D5 339 / D6 483 / D7 477
sec try: Day1 49 / D2 155 / D3 189 / D4 263 / D5 279 / D6 344 / D7 363
2* Tannery: Day1 49#44 / D2 123#161 / D3 152#177 / D4 237#256 / D5 236#246 / D6 255#304 / D7 248#280

Clothier: 15 / 27 / 36 / 44 / 50 / 54 / 58
sec try: 12 / 21 / 29 / 35 / 40 / 44 / 48

Brewery: 48 / 83 / 110 / 129 / 144 / 152 / 158
Velvet Weavery: 128 / 148 / 126 / 97 / 73 / 55 / 40
Vinter: 17 / 26 / 32 / 35 / 36 / 33 / 32
Potter: 35 / 60 / 78 / 89 / 96 / 99 / 100
Oilpresser: 29 / 48 / 59 / 67 / 70 / 69 / 66
Carpenter: 13 / 23 / 30 / 37 / 41 / 44 /48
Ironmonger: 14 / 7 / 1 / 0 / 0 / 23 / 20
Silversmith: 10 / 4 / 8 / 12 / 13 / 19 /24

I was locking at Hides / Fur / Leather / Hogs in traid with 2 Tanners but no clear pattern.
With 2 Brewers grain was stabel ( but they have there from 700-900 Grain -> bad place)
Beer was rising in Trade: Start 37 / 48 / 68 / 81 / 89 / 93

I think the hardwood from the Town was not enough or tradet to a other place -> Carpenter not realy working there.
Clothier is also not working with the Flax in this town.
The Clay with the Pottery was ~~~~~

Most Guids tell to go from Town productions but it seams in this case way off.

Do Workshops use raw materials ?
Tannery -> ? Hogs / Hides / Fur,...
Can 2 Brewerys starve a city from Grain ?
,........
So many questions but no answers.

 

[Pejot]

I would like to see the code to understand how they work.

Test: Ocs Hall
Towns: Hardwood, Clay, Flax

Shop money/day:
Tannery: Day1 77 / D2 206 / D3 224 / D4 330 / D5 339 / D6 483 / D7 477
sec try: Day1 49 / D2 155 / D3 189 / D4 263 / D5 279 / D6 344 / D7 363
2* Tannery: Day1 49#44 / D2 123#161 / D3 152#177 / D4 237#256 / D5 236#246 / D6 255#304 / D7 248#280

Clothier: 15 / 27 / 36 / 44 / 50 / 54 / 58
sec try: 12 / 21 / 29 / 35 / 40 / 44 / 48

Brewery: 48 / 83 / 110 / 129 / 144 / 152 / 158
Velvet Weavery: 128 / 148 / 126 / 97 / 73 / 55 / 40
Vinter: 17 / 26 / 32 / 35 / 36 / 33 / 32
Potter: 35 / 60 / 78 / 89 / 96 / 99 / 100
Oilpresser: 29 / 48 / 59 / 67 / 70 / 69 / 66
Carpenter: 13 / 23 / 30 / 37 / 41 / 44 /48
Ironmonger: 14 / 7 / 1 / 0 / 0 / 23 / 20
Silversmith: 10 / 4 / 8 / 12 / 13 / 19 /24

I was locking at Hides / Fur / Leather / Hogs in traid with 2 Tanners but no clear pattern.
With 2 Brewers grain was stabel ( but they have there from 700-900 Grain -> bad place)
Beer was rising in Trade: Start 37 / 48 / 68 / 81 / 89 / 93

I think the hardwood from the Town was not enough or tradet to a other place -> Carpenter not realy working there.
Clothier is also not working with the Flax in this town.
The Clay with the Pottery was ~~~~~

Most Guids tell to go from Town productions but it seams in this case way off.

Do Workshops use raw materials ?
Tannery -> ? Hogs / Hides / Fur,...
Can 2 Brewerys starve a city from Grain ?
,........
So many questions but no answers.

Workshops use raw material available. They produce at certain ratio and sell it in town. What You get is the difference of buying price of raw materials and selling price for producer goods in the city.
To be more precise every workshop has a base capital of 10k and You get 20% of the money above 10k (you can see current capital in clan menu->other when You choose workshop).
Prices fluctuate a lot and are based on prosperity/demand. If the city produces a lot of grain but have no beer on the market You can get good money from brewery if no caravan delivers beer to the city before paytime.
The best income I've got was 800 from brewery at Zeonica (beta 1.3.0).


Edit:
As for raw materials. Tannery uses furs (I think it was furs) to produce leather and then it uses leather to produce leather armor.

 

[Korven]

How many raw materials the use?
-> Grain is a good exampel, what happens if you build in every City 2 Brewrys, would it drain the Grain from the market?

Why are some ressources not in the City from the Towns or not enough?
-> Ocs Hall: Hardwood, Flax, Clay Towns but what works?
Carpenter no, Clothier no, Pottery not really,....
There may be a distribution problem with the raw materials.

I would like to infestigate this a little more.

 

[Botlike]

I think Pejot is correct on how they should work , but apart from tannery ( which is OP ) the rest seem extremely underwhelming.
So personally , when they nerf tannery , i'll stop buying workshops all together or find a mod. Buy [insert clan rank number]x tanneries and move on imo. Brewery is kind of OK in my tests ( around 150$ ) , propably because all towns got grain. Or there is a serious drinking problem going on...
Tanneries work for me on every single town. I haven't checked , but i highly doubt all of them had fur on all my tests. So it seems like a broken system to me.
Also , buying a workshop that uses nearby town raw materials seemed to work fine at the start of EA , but now you can , for example , buy a vintner on a town that has a grape village , get some very minimal earnings and on some days NOTHING.

 

[Korven]

I looked into it a bit more in Vlandia, what ressources ~ should be enough in Town.

Pravend: Grain, Grapes, Olives

Sargot: Flax, (Grain 129?)

Ocs Hall: Grain 400 ? Clay ~100(green) test was ~ 100 Gold/day, Hardwood was constantly buyed as i walked -> to low
and Flax (green) only ~58 Gold / Day?

Galend: Grapes, Olives

Jaculan: Olives, some Wool, (Grain146? but red)

Charas: Olives

Ostican: Flax, ~~~ Grain/Grapes/Olives ? hard to tell if enough

Rovalt: Grain, Olives, Flax (Iron Ore red, not enough produktion,..)

Grain/Brewery seams the way to go, there is more in the market.
I think the system is also not very flexibel -> Every place will have 1,2 Workshops that work and no other.
The flow of materials will most likely stay the same.

Traders Option, to bring Ressource xy to Workshop would help. (maybe Quests as Bonus)

 

[Dionaea]

There may be a distribution problem with the raw materials.

Bandits or war could be preventing villagers from supplying grain thus creating a shortage and inflating the price of grain, at the same the beer doesn't get sold very well due to caravans having a harder time to reach it.

There's a Battanian town that has 3 sources of clay so a pottery workshop there should do really well but it's horribly bandit infested and in a location that makes it impossible for villagers to avoid the bandits. That has an effect. If I have the spare money I usually flood the market with the raw material my workshop needs to drive down the price for it. Aditionally I read you should check if nearby towns have the same type of workshop since that competition can also influence the income of your workshop.

I remember I started a Vlandian campaign once and based on this map chose Galend to set up my olive oil workshop. It didn't really become profitable until I cleared all bandit/sea raider/forrest bandit hideouts in the area and constantly hunted for bandits, so the villagers from the surrounding villages could consistently trade with the city

 

[Pejot]

There's a Battanian town that has 3 sources of clay so a pottery workshop there should do really well

This pottery shop won't do well there cause there's low demand on pottery. From what I saw pottery has higher demand in cities producing wine and oil but I'm not sure what causes this cause I didn't saw pottery as material to produce them in the files.
Also your workshop sell only to the local market so only local prices affect it.

 

[Korven]

Bandits or war could be preventing villagers from supplying

That is a funny part -> the raw material is there in some places but the money is low at best.

Ocs Hall:
Flax -> Linen from 9Gold green Flax ~40-54Gold/day
Maybe the Linen market was full,..
Would be nice to see the files.

I didn't saw pottery as material to produce them in the files.

Maybe not at the producing stage from the shops -> demand from Town maybe listet?
Would make it simpler to just take Olives and Grapes to make a price.
Olives/Grapes + Pottery price is maybe wonky.

 

[Tozze101]

I've tried several types of workshops in different regions but i can never get a stable profit out of them. I tried checking the trade goods etc in towns etc to see what goods i could make most profit out of and what raw materials was cheap and plentiful etc. The ONLY real stable workshops i've found is in Balgard, Varnovapol, Sibir, Omor and Tyal. One tannery in each of these usually stays at 400-600 in profits no matter which faction owns it or how much the prosperity suffers. I've done this in 3 seperate playthroughs from version 1.1.0 to 1.2.1 up to a couple of years into the game.
One major upside to them is that the price is often 13-14k for the workshop spot. Sucks if you are at war with them but you can always sell them before you go to war or when you feel they have served you well enough

 

[Pejot]

I've tried several types of workshops in different regions but i can never get a stable profit out of them.

It's impossible to make a stable profit cause prices fluctuate very fast. Even if the town have stable production filling the demand you have other factors like villagers attacked and couldn't deliver the resource, village raided, caravan buying goods from the market. Except from taxes that are stable as long as fief is safe no income is stable.

 

[Tozze101]

It's impossible to make a stable profit cause prices fluctuate very fast. Even if the town have stable production filling the demand you have other factors like villagers attacked and couldn't deliver the resource, village raided, caravan buying goods from the market. Except from taxes that are stable as long as fief is safe no income is stable.

True, but then again i don't get why these tannerys in these specific towns always stay stable for me. We all know how buttf-ed the Sturgians usually get with most of their villages in flames 90% of the time. Unless they have a passive income of fur not included in caravans

 

[Pejot]

True, but then again i don't get why these tannerys in these specific towns always stay stable for me. We all know how buttf-ed the Sturgians usually get with most of their villages in flames 90% of the time. Unless they have a passive income of fur not included in caravans

Hmm villages produce fur? I haven't checked Sturgian villages and never found any in other terrain that produce fur. Or I'm blind xD It always bugged me how do they get them.

 

[Tozze101]

I believe one village north of Omor produce fur. Other then that it's mostly Battanian lands. I can't speak for 1.3 though. That version broke alot of my favorite mods so i had to downgrade

 

[Dionaea]

Here's the map again of all goods produced and workshop locations. It seems it's not entirely correct but most of it is

 

[Old One-Eye]

Both Battania and Sturgia have villages that produce furs in 1.3 Beta. However, there are also Hides, which potentially could be involved in the production of leather. Not sure but I don't believe any villages produce Hides so I assume they come from villages with cows, horses, sheep and hogs.
I would think the primary material in leather would actually be hides, not furs.

 

[StewVader]

Hogs, sheep, and cows produce hides. Its in the game module files. Furs are not an input for tannerys. Just look around in the sandbox module and look under workshops and you will see all the inputs and outputs for each workshop.

 

[madgar29]

i understand the nerf or i should say fix exploit, not workshops need to be reworked i am sorry but they do. If you create a workshop in a city with each town say makes clay, make a pottery. the amount of gold should not just be 100-200 i spent a 15k investment on a business that should be producing goods at a very very very low price, maybe add a fuction of where u want to sell them and add a RISK FACTOR say u wanna sell them where there is no clay but due to the distance u might lose some of the ware there due to raiders....... keep is safe make 100-200g a day sure make it rishky lets make 500-600 a day with a risk of losing that shipment WHY NOT.... lets spice up workshops because right now in my personal opinion.

yes 15k investment for 100-200a day is worth it because it doesnt cost a damn thing and its extra passive income i get that and i support that. but lets spice it up? also lets balance workshops i make 500g a day off pottery but yet i make a METAL SMITH i only make 50-90g a day village near by has iron..... why is this not balanced. forget the logistics of economic at the moment..... but pottery should not be making more than metal smithing...... unless its italian glass and its being bought by the english. COME ON. a clay pot should not be selling more than metal armor and weapons..... but that is my opinion

 

[Badcritter]

Economics yo.

The ticket price of the end product is only one aspect of profitability. What was paid for materials? How many units get sold? Because those aspects are controlled by the simulated economy, "fixing workshops" is complicated because the economy simulation is a dynamic input that you don't have direct control over.

If you have the patience for it you could go and tweak the volume of inputs required to produce outputs in the game files (find them where @StewVader said) to try and normalise the earnings of the different kinds of workshops. Some people (myself included) enjoy doing that kind of thing, but personally I have not felt motivated to do so in this case because of the excessive amount of time you would have to invest in observing the results on sufficient scale to prove you were actually making things better. Dev/debug tools are needed to make that workload manageable. Even with those it won't be easy and will require re-checking and rebalancing every time changes effect one of the input and output factors of the rest of the economy - right the way down to the frequency and location of caravan and villager party interceptions by hostiles.

 

[Hammer of Mawds]

What iv done to make money is bought 3 pottery shops in pen cannoc, as all the villages produce clay then bought all the other pottery shops in the world, changed their production an sold them to eliminate competition, then I'm the only Pottery seller, take my product and sell for a hefty profit

 

[Badcritter]

I should add that Leather is consistently expensive, and that's the core reason why Tanneries are highly profitable. I don't trade in Leather most of the time because I almost never find opportunities to buy it more cheaply than I know I can sell it somewhere else. This means that demand for Leather in the game world is too high (or supply too low), and making Tanneries more efficient so they can satisfy demand better won't stop them being profitable, it will make them MORE profitable.

Either the demand needs to be lessened (something we as players can't influence, and is probably too complex to casually mod) or the supply has to be increased by means other than the player. @Hammer of Mawds strategy for making his Potters profitable gives a hint to how that solution to the Tannery problem could be achieved. There probably aren't enough NPC controlled Tanneries in the world, if there were more it would increase competition and bring down the price of Leather, reducing the profitability of each Tannery.