Workshop upgrade

[Moton]

Is upgradable workshops something that will come to the game later on? When you open your clan window and go to the tab where you can see your workshops they have a level but I've never seen any of them above 1 and cant find a way to upgrade them. I guess it's a feature that is planed?

 

[Flesson19]

I am sure down the road they will but at this time I highly doubt it is on their radar, bigger problems to fix that have been around for weeks and still not handled, if they do I would think it would be in development update vide

 

[Monkey]

I am sure down the road they will but at this time I highly doubt it is on their radar, bigger problems to fix that have been around for weeks and still not handled, if they do I would think it would be in development update vide

It's not impossible that the upgrading of workshops (and other previously planned features) become a scrapped feature, despite how sad that would be.

 

[Pensaci]

I doubt it. There is clear info shown to player that is inconclusive. And workshops eventually have to deal with high-end/end-game stuffs when they enter the game, as workshops is the supposed producer of all the better things besides basic things in the game.

But in the sense like castle building and village forming level of advanced workshop, I agree it's most likely.

 

[Berzerker Jay]

I hope planned features don't get scrapped. That's the problem with early-access, and since this game went early-access for basically full price...well, I could feel ripped off, depending on the features....

 

[Midnitewolf]

I hope planned features don't get scrapped. That's the problem with early-access, and since this game went early-access for basically full price...well, I could feel ripped off, depending on the features....

There are already a ton of scrapped features. Remember Early access was only supposed to last about 1 year so that means Early access should be ending sometime in March if all goes to plan. Do you really think the game is going to change all that much in another 2-3 months? The answer is not likely.

Honestly I think we will see the biggest changes to the game coming from mods where many of these scrapped features will be added by modders.

 

[Berzerker Jay]

There are already a ton of scrapped features. Remember Early access was only supposed to last about 1 year so that means Early access should be ending sometime in March if all goes to plan. Do you really think the game is going to change all that much in another 2-3 months? The answer is not likely.

Honestly I think we will see the biggest changes to the game coming from mods where many of these scrapped features will be added by modders.

I'm not one of those gamers who expects preliminary timelines for development to be concrete, especially at the expense of the game. I respect Taleworlds a lot, and hope they don't fumble this to the tune of CDProjekt Red.

If this comes out of early access next month, I'll actually be disappointed. I am satisfied with the pace of development and the level of playability being maintained in the Main Branch while the game's still under development. Hasty development wrecks great games.

Look at Kenshi, one of the first early-access games ever, and it missed its timeline by practically a decade. The game's pretty impressive, and having followed and played it from the beginning, I am glad they didn't just hastily release it to put a schedule ahead of making a good game. I hope Taleworlds sees fit to do the same, because I believe they're making a masterpiece here.

 

[Berzerker Jay]

Delivering on promises is far more important than meeting arbitrary deadlines.

Anyone who has ever managed a project knows that you only have the foggiest idea of the timeline when you set out, and that any number of objectives may face unexpected delays or unforeseen problems to solve. It can be a good thing that a project takes longer than initially forecast.

 

[Midnitewolf]

I'm not one of those gamers who expects preliminary timelines for development to be concrete, especially at the expense of the game. I respect Taleworlds a lot, and hope they don't fumble this to the tune of CDProjekt Red.

If this comes out of early access next month, I'll actually be disappointed. I am satisfied with the pace of development and the level of playability being maintained in the Main Branch while the game's still under development. Hasty development wrecks great games.

Look at Kenshi, one of the first early-access games ever, and it missed its timeline by practically a decade. The game's pretty impressive, and having followed and played it from the beginning, I am glad they didn't just hastily release it to put a schedule ahead of making a good game. I hope Taleworlds sees fit to do the same, because I believe they're making a masterpiece here.

Delivering on promises is far more important than meeting arbitrary deadlines.

Anyone who has ever managed a project knows that you only have the foggiest idea of the timeline when you set out, and that any number of objectives may face unexpected delays or unforeseen problems to solve. It can be a good thing that a project takes longer than initially forecast.

I don't know that I agree honestly at least with everything. Often when you start a project you have a grand vision of what you would like to accomplish but at some point you start to realize that there is a different between real and ideal and rarely does reality allow for you to reach your ideal vision. At that point you have to start asking just how close to that ideal is good enough.

For example, while "its ready when its ready" is generally a good ideal, I honestly feel that in reality the fact that Bannerlord is still in early access is bad for the game as a whole. The reason I feel this way is that I feel that mods are critical to the success of Bannerlord and the fact that 80% of the Mods on Nexus have been abandoned, many due to modders finding it too much work to update their mods constantly due to patches, is a very bad things for the game.

Most of the "features" that are missing will be added in later by modders once the game is in a stable release state. Same goes for much of the remaining balancing issues that people comment on. If you feel armor doesn't protect enough or the Horse Archers are too powerful, I can guarantee you a modder with address this and there will likely be a mod you can use that makes the game play just as you would like it to but this is only going to happen once the game releases.

So sure, there are features I wish had made it into Native that are likely not going to be there but as long as Taleworlds focuses on the core framework of the game and provide exceptionally versatile modding tools, those features and more will be added by modders. Again those that isn't going to happen until the game releases.

As it stands now, you have a subset of potential players that have an eye on the game but haven't bought in because they won't buy an early access game. Then you have a ton of modders who aren't modding because the game is still in early access. Then you have a subset of players who enjoy a modded gameplay experience that aren't playing because they are waiting for the game to stabilize so that the modders start updating and creating their mods again. Finally every day the game is in early access, your bleeding players. The hype is gone now, everyone who bought the game on hype bought in last March. Your also bleeding potential modders who were hype to mod for this game but now that a year has almost past, they have moved on to something else. That can only weaken the game and it will weaken it a lot more than the game missing a few promised features.

As far as the Cyberpunk 2077 reference. Despite everything nearly 78% of Steam user rated the game a positive gameplay experience and they sold over 13 million copies despite the controversy and refunds. That shows that it is a pretty successful game launch if you ask me and most of the controversy is from people who own 7 year old consoles expecting AAA performance out of the most performance demanding game of 2020. If Cyberpunk would have just limited their release to next gen consoles and PC rather than trying to offer backward compatability onto this old obsolete 7 year old consoles that had poorly performing hardware even new, then Cyberpunk 2077 would probably have been game of the year.

Bannerlord already has an 87% positive rating. Releasing with a few promised features missing isn't going to tank that rating and make it a bad game. Talking to long to finalize and release it WILL make it irrelevant and old news however.

 

[XDaron]

I'll be happy if i can somehow stash raw resources into a workshops inventory so it can be refined without having to buy ram materials from the market

haven't discovered a way to do it yet, not without the more settlements actions mod anyway

 

[Berzerker Jay]

I don't know that I agree honestly at least with everything. Often when you start a project you have a grand vision of what you would like to accomplish but at some point you start to realize that there is a different between real and ideal and rarely does reality allow for you to reach your ideal vision. At that point you have to start asking just how close to that ideal is good enough.

For example, while "its ready when its ready" is generally a good ideal, I honestly feel that in reality the fact that Bannerlord is still in early access is bad for the game as a whole. The reason I feel this way is that I feel that mods are critical to the success of Bannerlord and the fact that 80% of the Mods on Nexus have been abandoned, many due to modders finding it too much work to update their mods constantly due to patches, is a very bad things for the game.

Most of the "features" that are missing will be added in later by modders once the game is in a stable release state. Same goes for much of the remaining balancing issues that people comment on. If you feel armor doesn't protect enough or the Horse Archers are too powerful, I can guarantee you a modder with address this and there will likely be a mod you can use that makes the game play just as you would like it to but this is only going to happen once the game releases.

So sure, there are features I wish had made it into Native that are likely not going to be there but as long as Taleworlds focuses on the core framework of the game and provide exceptionally versatile modding tools, those features and more will be added by modders. Again those that isn't going to happen until the game releases.

As it stands now, you have a subset of potential players that have an eye on the game but haven't bought in because they won't buy an early access game. Then you have a ton of modders who aren't modding because the game is still in early access. Then you have a subset of players who enjoy a modded gameplay experience that aren't playing because they are waiting for the game to stabilize so that the modders start updating and creating their mods again. Finally every day the game is in early access, your bleeding players. The hype is gone now, everyone who bought the game on hype bought in last March. Your also bleeding potential modders who were hype to mod for this game but now that a year has almost past, they have moved on to something else. That can only weaken the game and it will weaken it a lot more than the game missing a few promised features.

As far as the Cyberpunk 2077 reference. Despite everything nearly 78% of Steam user rated the game a positive gameplay experience and they sold over 13 million copies despite the controversy and refunds. That shows that it is a pretty successful game launch if you ask me and most of the controversy is from people who own 7 year old consoles expecting AAA performance out of the most performance demanding game of 2020. If Cyberpunk would have just limited their release to next gen consoles and PC rather than trying to offer backward compatability onto this old obsolete 7 year old consoles that had poorly performing hardware even new, then Cyberpunk 2077 would probably have been game of the year.

Bannerlord already has an 87% positive rating. Releasing with a few promised features missing isn't going to tank that rating and make it a bad game. Talking to long to finalize and release it WILL make it irrelevant and old news however.

I don't know. For a personal project, sure you might follow whatever whim you like as far as planning -- you have no one to disappoint for failing to deliver on your promises but yourself. But this is an early-access game that sold for full price on the basis of what was promised -- kind of like if you hired a contractor to complete a set of tasks and you pay part of the price up front. If the contractor just arbitrarily starts deciding not to give you what you already paid for, that's a bad contractor.

Same with developers. If Taleworlds does honestly act according to your suggestion, I would lose a great deal of respect for them. I've used them as an example of what a great developer looks like, but I wouldn't again.

The contractor who decides not to deliver on promises will either be forced to renegotiate, or they will be taken to court for breach of contract. That's not good. I'm not saying devs should be taken to court, though in some extreme cases maybe it's warranted, but early-access provided in exchange for money represents a contract of sorts.

At the very least, fundamentally those who break promises have their credibility adjusted accordingly.

I'm not worried about the modding community, especially before Workshop has been launched or anything like that. Anyone making a mod for this game now knows the deal. Anyone too impatient to deal with it likely isn't going to be delivering or maintaining any quality mods. The real dedicated modders with actual visions for this game will be excited for its completion and likely want more to work with. I definitely do not think a good game is being made by giving up on development partway through because of impatience, either on the part of players or devs, and leaving it to modders to fix and make it good.

In all honesty, I actually preferred Warband without the mods, more often than with. Viking Conquest was the only one that got serious attention from me. Seriously, you'd ruin this game for me, and I'm grateful you're not making the call.

 

[Berzerker Jay]

Think about this, too -- if Taleworlds gives up on its promises so easy, why with future games will I take any of their promises seriously?

You want to talk about losing opportunities, but imagine Taleworlds at a future E3 showcasing the next installment of the Mount and Blade franchise, and everyone just rolling their eyes at promised features because the devs got a reputation for overpromising and failing to deliver?

 

[Midnitewolf]

Think about this, too -- if Taleworlds gives up on its promises so easy, why with future games will I take any of their promises seriously?

You want to talk about losing opportunities, but imagine Taleworlds at a future E3 showcasing the next installment of the Mount and Blade franchise, and everyone just rolling their eyes at promised features because the devs got a reputation for overpromising and failing to deliver?

I really don't know one game that ever delivered on everything that they have promised so I would look at things realistically and ask myself if overall, what they delivered was fun and enjoyable to play.

Honestly, if your expectation is that your going to get everything that a developer promises in every game, then you must suffer a lot of disappointment with your gaming experiences. There are just so many things that sound good on paper and may even sound feasible in the conception stage but end up not working as intended or become unfeasible for many reasons, that they need to be cut that I sincerely doubt any project has ever delivered 100% on how it was concepted.

Every game has these. For example originally in Bannerlord you were supposed to be able to grow a village into a castle and eventually a town. The player being able to found a village, then grow it into a castle, then finally a town sounds amazing.....when you look at it as one village being upgraded into one town.... however, you take it to the logical conclusion and every village and castle in the game would eventually be upgraded to a a town, what then? Obviously you have a broken as hell game. Promise not delivered, game better because of it in my opinion. However, as you point out, they failed to deliver their promise so they failed and we can't take any of their promises seriously anymore. Obviously this isn't logical.

At the end of the day, sure, a developer should attempt to deliver as many of their promises as they feasibly can but they key word there is feasibly. What we need to judge is how close they came to delivering what they promised and remember, just because a game is released doesn't mean things can't be added. Taleworlds can absolutely add things down the road. Hell a prime example of this is No Man's Sky. They completely over promised and undelivered however, they didn't stop working on the game just because it released and now it is an amazing game.

Anyway, it has been nearly a year of Early Access. Taleworlds needs to start wrapping it up. Fix the major issues, deliver on what they can and release the game. Modders will fix most outstanding issues once the game releases. Then, like No Man's Sky, maybe on a quarterly basis, Taleworlds can patch in a large content patch adding some of the stuff that didn't make the final cut as well as adding new feature and improving the game. I can guarantee you that the player community will appreciate a strong commitment to periodic improvements over time more so than taking another 6 months to a year to add a few missing features and then abandoning the game once it is released.

 

[Berzerker Jay]

I really don't know one game that ever delivered on everything that they have promised so I would look at things realistically and ask myself if overall, what they delivered was fun and enjoyable to play.

Honestly, if your expectation is that your going to get everything that a developer promises in every game, then you must suffer a lot of disappointment with your gaming experiences. There are just so many things that sound good on paper and may even sound feasible in the conception stage but end up not working as intended or become unfeasible for many reasons, that they need to be cut that I sincerely doubt any project has ever delivered 100% on how it was concepted.

Every game has these. For example originally in Bannerlord you were supposed to be able to grow a village into a castle and eventually a town. The player being able to found a village, then grow it into a castle, then finally a town sounds amazing.....when you look at it as one village being upgraded into one town.... however, you take it to the logical conclusion and every village and castle in the game would eventually be upgraded to a a town, what then? Obviously you have a broken as hell game. Promise not delivered, game better because of it in my opinion. However, as you point out, they failed to deliver their promise so they failed and we can't take any of their promises seriously anymore. Obviously this isn't logical.

At the end of the day, sure, a developer should attempt to deliver as many of their promises as they feasibly can but they key word there is feasibly. What we need to judge is how close they came to delivering what they promised and remember, just because a game is released doesn't mean things can't be added. Taleworlds can absolutely add things down the road. Hell a prime example of this is No Man's Sky. They completely over promised and undelivered however, they didn't stop working on the game just because it released and now it is an amazing game.

Anyway, it has been nearly a year of Early Access. Taleworlds needs to start wrapping it up. Fix the major issues, deliver on what they can and release the game. Modders will fix most outstanding issues once the game releases. Then, like No Man's Sky, maybe on a quarterly basis, Taleworlds can patch in a large content patch adding some of the stuff that didn't make the final cut as well as adding new feature and improving the game. I can guarantee you that the player community will appreciate a strong commitment to periodic improvements over time more so than taking another 6 months to a year to add a few missing features and then abandoning the game once it is released.

There's a big difference in trying to deliver on promises, and simply giving up based on your rationale.

At this point we're only talking a difference of opinion, and there's not really a reasonable argument to show for your insistence that the game must be fully released within a year. I like Taleworlds because they ignore that rationale, and because they instead deliver good games. Look at how long it took just for us to get this far -- and I fully approve of that.

How many years did we have to wait just for early-access? They pushed back the release, and do you honestly wish they hadn't? Do you wish the game had seen less development and refinement than it already has?

I rest my case. I don't think there's anything more that needs to be said.