Workshop efficiency

[vadeN]

As of now it seems like workshops are capped at 200 denars/day.
There is also a cap of how many workshops you can have.

This means you are very limited in terms of both wealth and the amount of troops you can have.
In the case that you split your companions into different troops, it's not viable anymore, especially taken into consideration that you have to pay for these troops.

It also means you have less ways of playing the game, which makes it less fun for the player.

My suggestions would be:
* Workshops should have a much higher cap.
* You should be able to have more workshops.
* Balance it by making paying for companions troops much cheaper or have them pay for their own troops.

 

[CascadeHush]

I agree that the 3 workshop limit seems a bit limiting especially since you can hit it quite early. I presume this limit will change, perhaps based on your clan level.

A return of 100 per day is 36,500 per year. Based on an investment of 15,000 that is an absurd rate of return. If it operated anything like how real-world economies work, you'd be getting more like 4 per day. (We have long standing economic information over a few milennia showing that interest rates, business and investment returns tend towards about 10% PA. All this is based on clear profit after paying costs including wages.)

But this is a game, so you are getting 25-50 times what you should expect.

And ultimately it's free money.

Caravan's OTOH are an order of magnitude more improbable, profitability wise. But from a gameplay point of view you have to invest a companion, so the trade-off feels about right to me.

So yeah, given how easy it is to make money (through loot, trade and quests), and to roll that money into caravans and businesses for even more money, it all seem pretty well balanced from a gameplay point of view even if it is completely absurd when looked at from an economic perspective.

 

[ABBAZABBA]

I was hopping to also get some more to do in the shops. In the old game if you put the raw material the shop needed to make its product in the shops inventory the shop would make more profit. another cool thing would to be able to label your product so if you saw it in the shop you would know it was from your shop. like naming the beer. maybe going to a tavern and talk about it to further sales. or going to merchants at other citys and talking about your product to get them to order some. Also if you own a shop maybe we could work in the shop to cut down costs and raise profit for a day? maybe there could be some random problems at the shops that a messenger brings us quests that we can go do and if we dont the shop dosnt make money that week ? like gang members in the city stealing stuff or demanding money ? or material shortages that we need to go find. or a fire? idk the shops feel like a side note and i think it could be way better.

Also where are all the inventory's ? I cant store things at my castle ? i go to my keep and see all these chests but i cant use them... i would love to leave some gold or items at my castles. same for my shops i should be able to put guards at my shops to help protect agenst gangs.

Also just an idea about the balance of gold in the game you could go to a copper silver and gold system make copper really common silver uncommon and gold rare. i do agree that it is way to easy to get gold in this game. in just a one day of playing i had over 100K.

Mostly due to the lack of draw back from number of live stock in your party. not saying it should count as weight but it should slow down your party. also the unlimited number of horses is way op. not saying you should limit number of horses just make it so there are some management issues with them. like if you have 100 people and 100 horses then your the fastest you can be. but the more extra horses you have then troops it slows you down a little. also mules and other carivan purposed live stock should slow you down.

 

[vadeN]

But this is a game, so you are getting 25-50 times what you should expect.

And ultimately it's free money.

This is where i disagree.
First and foremost, it's not free money. I have paid from my pockets to buy a business.
It costs around 14000 denars to buy a workshop.
If the workshop gives me 200 denars/day, that means it will take 70 days just to get my moneys worth which i paid in the beginning.

The second thing to consider here is also that the workshop will not make 200 denars a day in the start, sometimes it will lose money in the start and then gradually build up towards the cap.
This means it will probably take even longer, around 100-200 days until i get back what i originally paid for.
In that time i could just have bought more troops and gained even more money from attacking other faction members.

 

[57312]

I made an account on this forum just now because I bought the game with the whole intention of buying everything.

I wanted to buy every workshop in EVERY city and spend the play through as a caravaneer, if I just happened to kill some bandits along the way then bonus.

The game felt super slow trading my way up, the XP rates are garbage and the perks are kinda pointless in the current situation but when i finally felt like I was making progress I have just hit this stupid wall of not being able to own any more.

So now i'm going to buy caravans, are there a limit of 3 of those too? I kind of think on the character selection screen this info should have been available. If I knew that the trader bonus would be so pointless in my trader playthrough I would've gone for one with movement speed and been a speed boi trader in the exact same position.

 

[CascadeHush]

I was hopping to also get some more to do in the shops. In the old game if you put the raw material the shop needed to make its product in the shops inventory the shop would make more profit.

I presume they are going to add options to allow you to add stock to your business and also ask them to not sell and allow you to pick it up and trade it yourself. At least I hope they do, it was a good aspect of the old game and could lead to big profits if you could be bothered to manage it.

Also where are all the inventory's ? I cant store things at my castle ?

I don't have a castle, but I have a city (they call them settlements for some bizarre reason). There is a 'Stash' option in the menu that gives you an inventory you can put stuff. I presume castles have a similar setup but I can't verify that.

Mostly due to the lack of draw back from number of live stock in your party. not saying it should count as weight but it should slow down your party. also the unlimited number of horses is way op.

Yeah, I agree. Livestock should have a movement penalty as should having a large number of horses beyond what your party can reasonably use and manage.

 

[Deer]

I don't mind the daily income right now. With three workshops I'm ahead of my upkeep of a party size 60+ with over 100 denars pr day.
I would like to see some renown or skill/feat gain from being a successful trader and owner of workshops. Even if I'm not a renowned general and warrior, being a merchant prince(ss) should make one quite influential. Maybe you could even lend money to lords to finance their endless wars. And if your caravans feed a city, this would make you a big name there (and possibly hated if you overcharge for the daily bread)

 

[CascadeHush]

I wanted to buy every workshop in EVERY city and spend the play through as a caravaneer, if I just happened to kill some bandits along the way then bonus.

Yep, you should be able to play the game that way. In fact you can, but at some point it kinda tops out. I hope they raise the limit, even if they balance it out with some kind of management issue (like the more workshops you have, the more discord you have amongst your workers and some kind of rivalry mechanic.)

In Warband I did have a game where I bought a workshop in every city.

The game felt super slow trading my way up, the XP rates are garbage and the perks are kinda pointless in the current situation but when i finally felt like I was making progress I have just hit this stupid wall of not being able to own any more.

The XP rates are much better in the 1.1 beta, you'll enjoy that when it goes to the live branch (or now if you want to switch).

I agree some of the perks are rubbish, but then this seems to be a trend in a lot of games now... 5% bonus to something that doesn't happen very often is a very common kind of perk I see in games now; frankly it's just bad game design and a waste of brain cells even worrying about.

OTOH, my 1 influence per day perk really snowballed into something big for me. Also +3 hitpoints in a game where you aren't supposed to be a tank is reasonable, I think.

But maybe trading your way up is supposed to be slow... it's not easy if you go the recruit and loot way either, and least not if you want to be honorable and not attack villages. I did a mix of trading, looting and errands and managed to get my first 15k quick enough to be challenging and rewarding. It probably took about 5-10 hours to get to 15k, and now I'm 30 hours in and I have about 400k and I'd have half a million if I didn't just go on a spending spree for armor and weapons.

So now i'm going to buy caravans, are there a limit of 3 of those too?

Caravans require a companion to operate and companions are very limited. The returns are greater but you have to invest a companion and there is a risk the caravan will get attacked and then you have to set it up again from scratch. I just lost one of my caravans but not before I made a lot more back it helped me progress.

 

[CascadeHush]

I would like to see some renown or skill/feat gain from being a successful trader and owner of workshops. Even if I'm not a renowned general and warrior, being a merchant prince(ss) should make one quite influential. Maybe you could even lend money to lords to finance their endless wars. And if your caravans feed a city, this would make you a big name there (and possibly hated if you overcharge for the daily bread)

Yeah, renown/influence for trading would be good, especially if it is just a trickle from workshops or only when you do a really big trade.

Also being able to finance a war with a return incentive, risk of losing your investment and possible intrigue based on who you support would be totally awesome. You really should make that it's own topic, I think.

 

[Deer]

Yeah, renown/influence for trading would be good, especially if it is just a trickle from workshops or only when you do a really big trade.

Also being able to finance a war with a return incentive, risk of losing your investment and possible intrigue based on who you support would be totally awesome. You really should make that it's own topic, I think.

Good point. I will. And thanks

 

[CascadeHush]

It costs around 14000 denars to buy a workshop.
If the workshop gives me 200 denars/day, that means it will take 70 days just to get my moneys worth which i paid in the beginning.

Wow, a whole 3 months to get your entire initial investment back. Can you imagine if the money in your bank account doubled every 3 months, that would be pretty sweet... no, it would be horrendous economy breaking hyperinflation. But I know basic economic arguments are wasted here. And also the devs aren't stupid enough to give you what you are asking for because at least in this case they know how to balance a game for fun even thought it's still absurdly high as it is.

You can earn about 2k from a 'find the missing daughter' missions, which are relatively common and very easy. You can earn 600-800 transporting cattle from one village to another; these missions are probably even more common, take longer in game time but are a no-brainer as a player. Do a little trading on the way and getting to 14k should take no longer than an hour or 2 at the most if you are really that bothered and want to rush the process.

 

[ABBAZABBA]

Daybreak Game Company

I don't have a castle, but I have a city (they call them settlements for some bizarre reason). There is a 'Stash' option in the menu that gives you an inventory you can put stuff. I presume castles have a similar setup but I can't verify that.

Yeah I have some city's and castles and i found the stash in the city but their isn't one in the castles.