[WNL5] Grand Final and Bronze Match - Apis Europae WNL5 Champions
- 主题发起人 Killfacer
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Sure, sorry.
I think Belendor alreayd deserves a mute...
Pls dont treat him different XD
Pls dont treat him different XD
Ceasar 说:
I do. I do. Would you like to share it to ease my pain when I get it?
Thanks for hosting this tournament
Dr4g0nkn1ght 说:
Nord cav are very easy to counter. Poor shield skills mean that those Rhod xbows can shoot them at will. Combined with the fact that most cav players can't land a jav worth ****, and the Nord all-cav strat is arguably the weakest open map strat you can go with (rivaled only by the Rhodock all-cav strat).
Dr4g0nkn1ght
Sergeant Knight at Arms
WilySly 说:
If you find time to shoot and reload, sure. Which you wont when 8 cavs are just waiting for you to waste your first shot and then kill you.
WilySly 说:
You mean NA cav players cant land a jav hit? Because most EU cavs are capable of doing that. Especially AE cavs.
WilySly 说:
Great analysis WilySly!
TIL: I am decent cav 
Shemaforash 说:
Firunien 说:As i see it decent Cav will land 2-3 Javs out of 5 if they chase other Cavs, good Cav will hit 4-5 like Hives.. if u had a team full of guys like this 8 Cav on Nord is really strong on open map
I....ok
NA has been using all-cav strats since 2012 - we're very good at it. IMO, Nord all-cav sucks vs any competent team.I just watched the Finals. AE only got 6 jav kills over three rounds as Nords, and two of those kills were on downed opponents that were surrounded by AE cav (who were throwing down javs like they were feeding the homeless). The rest of AE's kills were lances - just straight up better cav play.
TL
R - The only change Nord cav needs is improved shield skills. Javelins are effective for the 3-5 players that can use them well -- everyone else going jav cav is just giving me more javs to pickup and throw
Dr4g0nkn1ght
Sergeant Knight at Arms
Obviously your understanding of this game differs from mine so I will not argue about the worth of javs and the strength of nord cavs.
My point was: Changes regarding faction balance in general should be considered for the next tournaments.
My point was: Changes regarding faction balance in general should be considered for the next tournaments.
Just like Swadia's economy should be fixed (they get PAID for the equipment they buy), as well as that all factions earn money buy keeping their horse - all factions get a small sum for keeping their horse alive each round.
Rhodok need a buff, Vaegir and Sarranid infs need a shield-skill buff (especially Sarranid), Rhodok inf needs better polearms and a tier 3 armor between their 23 and 42 armor, like Sarranid infantry needs a small buff in powerstrike and Swadian inf need a small nerf in either ironflesh or powerstrike (or both!). Also, Nords cavs need a nerf with the javelins for sure (K**** and AE has both proven this by now, K**** on FbtR and AE on Desolation Valley).
Khergit could just remove the horse archers and they'd be a super-fun new faction to play around with (why have this not been done yet?) - or just keep the **** horses they get and change their riding skill to 0.
Rhodok need a buff, Vaegir and Sarranid infs need a shield-skill buff (especially Sarranid), Rhodok inf needs better polearms and a tier 3 armor between their 23 and 42 armor, like Sarranid infantry needs a small buff in powerstrike and Swadian inf need a small nerf in either ironflesh or powerstrike (or both!). Also, Nords cavs need a nerf with the javelins for sure (K**** and AE has both proven this by now, K**** on FbtR and AE on Desolation Valley).
Khergit could just remove the horse archers and they'd be a super-fun new faction to play around with (why have this not been done yet?) - or just keep the **** horses they get and change their riding skill to 0.
eventually you'll lose all flavour between the factions other than skin changes to equipment. even if some changes need to be made you won't see drastic ones like no horse archers for khegirts or paying for javs with nords.
That strat is unique in effectiveness on that map and those factions. It will not work against other factions and it will not work on other maps unless they are equally open.
However for those particular conditions it was basically unstoppable, any heavy xbow strat would have been eaten alive, Desolation Valley needs some modifications to improve the upper spawn to add some cover, it probably also needs more cover elsewhere. Lack of heavy cover (there's plenty of light cover) near the spawn is why it was so tough to stop.
Nord cav otherwise are reasonably balanced, they're glass cannons which die very quickly to rangers.
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On the subject of making changes, I like the suggestions oliveran has made towards infantry balance, it's not really practical to give the rhodoks a new armour or change prices, but to remove swadian inf power strike and ironflesh should be workable and given they can get heavy armour first round, it seems a reasonable balance to nerf their stats.
However for those particular conditions it was basically unstoppable, any heavy xbow strat would have been eaten alive, Desolation Valley needs some modifications to improve the upper spawn to add some cover, it probably also needs more cover elsewhere. Lack of heavy cover (there's plenty of light cover) near the spawn is why it was so tough to stop.
Nord cav otherwise are reasonably balanced, they're glass cannons which die very quickly to rangers.
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On the subject of making changes, I like the suggestions oliveran has made towards infantry balance, it's not really practical to give the rhodoks a new armour or change prices, but to remove swadian inf power strike and ironflesh should be workable and given they can get heavy armour first round, it seems a reasonable balance to nerf their stats.
Rhodok would do good with a few price changes - these are not affected for the player, who simply get the prices from the server. Nobody has noticed the issue on IG_BG, but I've already fixed Swadia getting too much money, andn ot a single error has been shown to anyone since adding it (and the money is adding in properly as well) - hence removing the worries off this the issues of changing the economy a bit.
Rhodok could definitely need a buff, as to either get some sort of throwing (war darts are underrated, after all!) or perhaps a better helmet with the white or grey armor without sacrificing their shields so badly.
Sarranid needs some sort of change too, not sure what though as they feel like a generally touchy faction. A shieldbuff to their infs, and faster (not stronger) archers would be a VERY welcome addition.
Nords could use with a small cost to the javs (75-100?), making it a need to perhaps have a dismounted cav on closed maps to get javdrops properly. Their cavs already have infantry-based gear anyway, like good swords, war spear and pretty much the same armor. Why not give Nords better dimsountable cav, while 'nerfing' the normal cav a tiiiiiiny bit by choosing hunter or javs - also would remove the dismounted cav being able to get the splinted leather greaves, that's very ugly without the mail armor! Just a thought.
Rhodok could definitely need a buff, as to either get some sort of throwing (war darts are underrated, after all!) or perhaps a better helmet with the white or grey armor without sacrificing their shields so badly.
Sarranid needs some sort of change too, not sure what though as they feel like a generally touchy faction. A shieldbuff to their infs, and faster (not stronger) archers would be a VERY welcome addition.
Nords could use with a small cost to the javs (75-100?), making it a need to perhaps have a dismounted cav on closed maps to get javdrops properly. Their cavs already have infantry-based gear anyway, like good swords, war spear and pretty much the same armor. Why not give Nords better dimsountable cav, while 'nerfing' the normal cav a tiiiiiiny bit by choosing hunter or javs - also would remove the dismounted cav being able to get the splinted leather greaves, that's very ugly without the mail armor!
Just a thought.
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