[WNL3] Division C - Week 3 - Deadline 29/04

[Hives]

Wow, no idea how you do this wk. Playing that good with such pings. Nice, congrats!

 

[raptorjesus]

VR 12 - 4 DAM

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隐藏: ID's

隐藏: PRAISE THE SUN MAJESTY!!!

GG

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[Erminas]

PaD 11 - 9 Habichtorden

After OT map.

First map was Verloren:

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Second map was Frosty Battle:

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Overtime map was Winterburg with Nords and Rhodoks:

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Very well played HO.It's (sadly) rare to play with friendly clan these days without any problems whatsoever.
Really best of luck in the rest of WNL

PS. @Emilio odlicno si igrao druze
Rekao sam nasima da si odlican ranger pre meca ali 12-0 u jednom setu je fenomenalno

 

[WilySly]

Thank you for the match, Veche. Good Games 

 

[ReneKB]

Oh, I'm sorry about this confusion. To be honest I wasn't concentrated at all and messed up to read the line above the tiebreaker-rule while I checked this out. I'm so sorry for this mistake especially for both teams.

 

[Erminas]

I am waiting for an official statement.

In Swiss System there are no draws.

And even if you decide it is a draw then first of all Division C is not using a Swiss System.And that would also mean HO and PaD are playing again next week since we will be the only ones with 4 points so this rule is useless then:

Division C consists of only one stage and fixtures will be made using Swiss System. This means that teams will be matched with opponents with the most similar record. This will be done first by points, then by matches won and then by round difference. However, two teams may not face each other twice on consecutive fixture weeks.

 

[ReneKB]

There is no need to play next week again because Division C is running with the Swiss System that means draws give you and HO 1 point. We now assume that you didn't play the tie-breaker -- I know, it was also a big stupid mistake of mine (which shouldn't happen as admin) and I'm sorry for this cause. That means now, that you and HO get 1 point for this match in the table.

 

[captain lust]

[...]

That rule needs fixing imo since it's not how fixtures are being handled anyway.

 

[Duken96]

Our final decision is that we will count the match as a draw and both of you will be given 1 point. The tie-breaker rounds won't be counted therefore the final score will be 8-8. We apologize for the unlucky mistake.

 

[Erminas]

Our statement will be posted later after i talk to Viglaf.

Personally i am losing patience with all these "unlucky mistakes" and apologizes that follow. Happened more then once in WNL2 to my team and is happening again. In WNL2  I didn't want to make problems for admins so we didn't post anything, but this keeps on happening over and over again and it's frustrating...

 

[Duken96]

Personally i am losing patience with all these "unlucky mistakes" and apologizes that follow.Happened more then once in WNL2 to my team and is happening again.In WNL2  I didn't want to make problems for admins so we didn't post anything,but this keeps on happening over and over again and it's frustrating...

There is no need to bring WNL2's issues in this discussion and i can tell you that we do not have anything against your own team. We are putting all our effort to make sure everything is fine and fair but we are humans and we may make mistakes aswell. We already apologized for that.

 

[Scar]

[...]

I think we also asked the teams to read the rules themselves. Yes, it was a mistake by Rene, he apologized for it, and you should have known yourself anyway. Waiting for your post then.

 

[Shemaforash]

Rene among with other referees has volunteered to assist teams participating in tournaments voluntarily. Referees and teams are supposed to know the rules, while Rene did an honest mistake neither of teams decided to read the rules section.

 

[Erminas]

We did read the rules.And,as we were not 100% sure what to do,we went to an admin who should know rules,no?

In the rules it is stated that for Div C Swiss System is being used.And i keep saying there is no tie/draw option in that system.
Admin team has realized that now,so they are changing rules.
So don't talk to me that we didn't read rules because we did.And so did Rene.He read them again yesterday before making decision and his call was to play tiebreaker.

So,drop the attitude about us being the "bad guys" here

PS.This is not our final statement.It will be posted later.

 

[Scar]

We did read the rules.And,as we were not 100% sure what to do,we went to an admin who should know rules,no?

In the rules it is stated that for Div C Swiss System is being used.And i keep saying there is no tie/draw option in that system.
Admin team has realized that now,so they are changing rules.
So don't talk to me that we didn't read rules because we did.And so did Rene.He read them again yesterday before making decision and his call was to play tiebreaker.

So,drop the attitude about us being the "bad guys" here

PS.This is not our final statement.It will be posted later.

The rules are 100% clear regarding draws.

During the knockout and playoff stage of the tournament matches may not end in draws. Should the match be a draw after the final round has been played then teams have to play a tiebreaker.

This means that draws may not happen during the KO/PO phase of the tournament. There is nothing said regarding the normal matches, which obviously means that draws may happen.

Furthermore, we explained how the Swiss System works in the rules themselves. We are not using the Swiss System for the overall tournament itself, only for the matchmaking in Division C if you see what I mean. So there is no point in insisting that there are no draws in the Swiss System, since we don't even use it to run Division C itself. We've pointed that out numerous times now, and the only bit we need to fix is that line about not matching the teams on consecutive weeks since the rules regarding matchmaking got changed once, we and forgot to edit that bit as well. This has, however, not caused any problems so far.

Regarding reading the rules, I'm not sure if you read them, I guess you did but you still didn't know that there are tie-breakers for normal matches, such as yours. You did the same mistake as Rene in the end, who apologized for it. And if you're talking about the "bad guy" attitude, I wasn't the one pointing fingers at the "bad tournament admins and them doing mistakes over and over again", Sir.

As Duken and many others said already, we are only humans, we all do mistakes, and Rene apologized for it. I can understand your frustration, but considering you don't even argue about the decision itself but about the bad tournament administration, I can only ask you to accept Rene's apology and move on. We are all only Warband Fans, we are not getting paid for anything, and we can't do more than admitting the mistakes we do and apologize for them. I sure you understand that mistakes can happen, I mean you are an admin yourself for the WWC. I can assure you that we do everything to prevent these mistakes from happening, it's not like I enjoy writing apologies and sorting out these mistakes.

 

[captain lust]

The rules are 100% clear regarding draws.

During the knockout and playoff stage of the tournament matches may not end in draws. Should the match be a draw after the final round has been played then teams have to play a tiebreaker.

This means that draws may not happen during the KO/PO phase of the tournament. There is nothing said regarding the normal matches, which obviously means that draws may happen.

It doesn't mention anything about what happens for draws during "normal" matches in that rule.

Teams will be awarded 3 points for a win, 1 point for a draw and 0 points for a loss.

Here it is stated that teams can get a draw but that could easily be understood as something which only takes place in Division A/B. There is also nothing in the rules which defines what a draw is and how it takes place (for example it could be something which only occurs if a match cannot be played, for whatever reason).

Implication does not qualify as "100% clear" in my opinion. The teams turned to tournament admins for clarification (their last port of call) and were provided with incorrect information. As a result they played out the tiebreak on Winterburg and were probably thrilled to have won what was obviously a very long and tense match. For that to then be swept out from under them the next day is understandably aggravating.

Rene seems to be a nice guy and does a good job with the servers but honestly seems to struggle a little bit as an admin, in terms of both knowledge and decisiveness. If the rules are incomplete in places and teams can't be confident that the admins will provide them with accurate clarification when required, there is a significant problem in my opinion.

 

[Scar]

It doesn't mention anything about what happens for draws during "normal" matches in that rule.

Here it is stated that teams can get a draw but that could easily be understood as something which only takes place in Division A/B. There is also nothing in the rules which defines what a draw is and how it takes place (for example it could be something which only occurs if a match cannot be played, for whatever reason).

Implication does not qualify as "100% clear" in my opinion. The teams turned to tournament admins for clarification (their last port of call) and were provided with incorrect information. As a result they played out the tiebreak on Winterburg and were probably thrilled to have won what was obviously a very long and tense match. For that to then be swept out from under them the next day is understandably aggravating.

No it doesn't because draws have always been possible. And I'm not implicating something, I'm just not preventing a possible outcome from happening. It has been like that in WNL 1, in WNL 2 but now we need to start picking on something that has never been a problem. Seemingly we have to clarify all these rules now as well, so yeah sure, go ahead, send me a private message with all the common sense rules that have never been a problem and I'll clarify every single one of them.

Rene seems to be a nice guy and does a good job with the servers but honestly seems to struggle a little bit as an admin, in terms of both knowledge and decisiveness. If the rules are incomplete in places and teams can't be confident that the admins will provide them with accurate clarification when required, there is a significant problem in my opinion.

Rene made a mistake, he apologized and learned from it. I'm sure it won't happen again.

Edit:

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By the way, how can this rule

During the knockout and playoff stage of the tournament matches may not end in draws. Should the match be a draw after the final round has been played then teams have to play a tiebreaker.

be interpreted like that

Here it is stated that teams can get a draw but that could easily be understood as something which only takes place in Division A/B. There is also nothing in the rules which defines what a draw is and how it takes place (for example it could be something which only occurs if a match cannot be played, for whatever reason).

 

[ReneKB]

It won't happen again, that's for sure. As I said I'm sorry for my mistake but I'm not able to fix this now. I was on time-pressure, confused with other things and wasn't concentrated at all. I know, I shouldn't make these mistakes as a WNL-Admin but I did unfortunately. Mistakes can happen everyone...

 

[The_Great_White]

All I can say is that we checked the rules as well, but just like the PaD guys, we were not 100% sure, so we preferred to ask an admin, rather thank taking the risk of reacting wrong. Just a bit unlucky that we kind of caught Rene off guard, distracted.

Things like that just happen, and I think it should be fine now!

 

[Surkan]

Somewhat silly to pick at Rene for a small mistake.