Witcher netflix series

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So...

They replaced Henry Cavill with Liam Hemsworth, of all people. It was already rough knowing that they will be diverting even further from the sources until completely different, but this seals the deal. It's really not worth watching anymore. If they could turn a super-fan to quitting the project because of direction, that's a big yikes.
 
I was never that impressed by the show (although it started out fun), and certainly not after season 2.
So it's no big loss that Cavill leaves. A lot of actors can play that part just as well.
Why not Hemsworth (although I'm trying to picture him in a white, long haired wig, and it's not a nice image I'm getting, lol).
 
In this case i am sad for i am not going to be seeing Cavill as the Witcher anymore (i found him to be born to play that character), but am very happy for him as a fan, for leaving that traitorous sinking ship.

This is just another in a recent line of examples of when a writers room think they can do better than the source material, in this case where the showrunner also "vowed" to follow the source 1:1, and then stomped on it.

Once the writers and producers think they know better, or they want to lecture instead of entertain, that's when we get Game of Thrones season 5 and after, Rings of Power and The Witcher, especially season 2.
 
What changes have they made from the source? I didn't like the books, so that actually sounds like good news for me :grin: Maybe I should give S2 a watch next time I have netflix.
 
Well if you haven't watched season 2, then it's futile for me to talk about the changes to the source material.
I always come back to the ****talk the showrunner had during PR period.
She was saying the books are her main inspiraton and "sole source material", even though she introduced a creature that wasn't even in the books, but only in the games (not that i would complain either way, but she obviously unprovokedly lied)
When you watch the season 2, come back so we can have a laugh at it together.
 
There were considerable changes to the source. If you don't like the books though, odds are these changes wouldn't annoy you. To huge fans though, like Cavill? It was enough to drive him away. Which probably means we're looking at Wheel of Time level disastrous changes. lol

I was never that impressed by the show (although it started out fun), and certainly not after season 2.
So it's no big loss that Cavill leaves. A lot of actors can play that part just as well.
Why not Hemsworth (although I'm trying to picture him in a white, long haired wig, and it's not a nice image I'm getting, lol).

S2 really showed its iffiness. And Liam Hemsworth cannot act in any capacity. It was like taking a Twilight actor and jamming him into there. lol
 
I'm not disputing that there were changes, I'm asking what they were. Are they just changing the background lore or are they fully deviating from the story?
 
Both. I can't tell you exactly what without badly spoiling it for you and anyone reading.
It's not an all bad season, but they should've marketed the show as "The Witcher universe inspired", and it would've been simply fine.
 
I'm not disputing that there were changes, I'm asking what they were. Are they just changing the background lore or are they fully deviating from the story?

They range from all sorts of changes, from minor to crucial. They announced they will deviate even further from the books for S3 and onwards, too. Here's a short list of things they changed. Please do not read if you do not want to be spoiled for the books or the show:

  • Yennifer; her entire origin story was crafted for the show (whilst good, it's not canon)
  • Characters being where they should not be (Triss being in Temeria when Geralt fought the striga etc etc)
  • Cahir sending a doppler after Ciri (this is actually huge, not just for Ciri, but for Cahir too!). Also, he gets imprisoned for failing to capture Ciri and we see him two books later. He's also not a cartoon villain in the books, and I don't want to spoil why but...trust me! Or go read the books! :smile:
  • How Ciri and Geralt met is altered considerably. Initially, Geralt happens into Brokilon Forest and finds a dying man asking him to protect " the princess". He travels through the forest, and fights a monster to save what he assumes is a hafling, but it turns out to be Ciri. They go their separate ways, reuniting again when Ciri escapes Cintra. So, there's a big difference there.
  • Eskel is not Eskel. They are completely different characters and that, itself, is a truly sad thing. This actually upset a LOT of people, too.
  • Istredd, Stregobor, Francesca and Fringilla are made more important than they actually are. So all of the stories you see concerning these characters, or most, are all fanfiction. Especially for Istredd and Stregobor.
  • Vesemir never tried to make more Witchers, which makes the whole "using Ciri" to make more a really dumb addition.
  • Nilfgaard has been dramatically changed, in every way possible. They are simply not the same. At all.
  • Fanfiction OCs (original characters) inserted, like Voleth Meir.
  • The monoliths is not a story in the books, so another fanfic creation implemented
  • Geralt using Ciri as bait. He would NEVER do this, and never did.
  • Yen never loses her magic (she's blinded by Fringilla but recovers), she also never considers sacrificing Ciri for herself. She is also not captured by Nilfgaard, and far more for Yen.
  • Djikstra was made into a dumb drunk, when he's so far from that it's hilarious
  • Jaskier/Dandelion is wittier in the books, and not a massive comedic relief.
  • the "no true blooded elf born" thing is a Netflix creation and is absurd
  • The politics surrounding magic is different in the books.

And far, far, far more than the above. It is not a joke or some exaggeration when people say S2 is majorly different from the books, and if barely any of canon made it into S2, S3 is almost certain to be entirely "fanfic".
 
Yup, read all of the books, the series is like watching an alternative story set in the same universe, but it shares maybe 15-20% of the books’ story, or probably less.

They’ll surely go all in with Ciri’s lesbian bandit arc eventually though, trust me on that one

Too bad for Henry, you could see he really cared about the character.
 
Oh, they certainly will and completely tune out everything else surrounding it.
like her stint with that dude. :lol:
😅

Yeah, I feel kinda bad for him. He really loved the character and world, and for the show. He's gotta do what's right by him though, so good for him for ditching while he could. Probably didn't want to experience something akin to Game of Thrones.
 
Game of Thrones had 4 full seasons of awesomeness, before spiraling down.
The showrunner and the writers of The Witcher series managed to spoil to me an even better franchise in just arround 5 episodes.

Now fans organize petitions for writers to be fired and a former producer came out with information that behind the scenes some writers openly said they disliked both the games and the books and they were mockingly talking about them.
Just complete chaos.

Why do people who hate franchises take upon themselves to write and produce a series on one is what i will never understand. I don't accept "money" as an answer, as there are infinite other ways of making money for them, including working on something they don't dislike.

EDIT: some spoilers ahead
Also, let's not forget that in the Roach death scene, the showrunner Lauren Hissrich wanted to "punctuate the moment with a bit of comedy", that's how delusional she is, but Cavill strongly protested repeatedly and said that a soulful dialogue ought to be put. She caved in the end and told him to write it by himself and not even pitch it to her, she trusted him, as he is a "Witcher encyclopedia", how they called him on set.
He was spot on with that farewell and captured Geralt's bond to his horse faithfully.
 
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Yes, that's true. It caused a huge backlash when it came out. They're treating the series with such disrespect and contempt it is just creepy. If they do not like the games, or the books, why did they sign on? Oh, right...the money. They wanted that next Game of Thrones and that sweet, sweet cash.

I have the same rage about Wheel of Time, but at least the creators for that weren't openly flaunting how much they hated the books, they pretended they liked it despite the criminal destruction they did to it. I mean, obviously they don't like the source and the show was absolute garbage, but...
 
I don't understand how you can so vehemently hate the Wheel of Time show and like The Rings of Power. They're basically the exact same thing.

They are most certainly not even close to being the same thing. How far did you go in either show and have you read the books of both, if I might ask? I ask because whilst Rings of Power might reshuffle some of the time line to condense into TV format, altered or invented some backstory for characters (some of which they are apparently legally not allowed to use, such as Annatar being swapped for Halbrand but retaining pretty much the same concept as a background), or even condensed two characters or plotlines together, it still retains a core concept of the books that is undeniably Silmarillion and Lord of the Rings.

Whereas Wheel of Time has changed even the most basic principles of the series, such as how the One Power works, and the Dragon Reborn, and the Aes Sedai, which if anyone here reads the books understands as being crucial parts of the story that once scrapped, changes literally everything. So nothing is similar to the books, except in location name and character name. And beyond that? Rings of Power is enjoyable even if you saw it as stand alone, whereas Wheel of Time is not because it has the cheesiest YA CW show quality in the world, just with a higher budget, and that is all.

Now I can see the complaints Rings of Power has had, but most of it is painfully overblown. I mean, yes, obviously there is a lot different, like with Mithril and Finrod, but changes are expected. It's about how changes are made though, that can effect the way a show is seen. And the Witcher and Wheel of Time? They don't do it well at all. I say all of that as a massive fan of both Middle-Earth and Wheel of Time. There's just way too much wrong with WOT Amazon on top of it just being bad media. I can't even recognize Robert Jordan in that comedic cow dung, where as I can at least still gleam tons of J.R.R. Tolkien (and his son's notes) out of Rings of Power.
 
They are most certainly not even close to being the same thing. How far did you go in either show and have you read the books of both, if I might ask? I ask because whilst Rings of Power might reshuffle some of the time line to condense into TV format, altered or invented some backstory for characters (some of which they are apparently legally not allowed to use, such as Annatar being swapped for Halbrand but retaining pretty much the same concept as a background), or even condensed two characters or plotlines together, it still retains a core concept of the books that is undeniably Silmarillion and Lord of the Rings.

Whereas Wheel of Time has changed even the most basic principles of the series, such as how the One Power works, and the Dragon Reborn, and the Aes Sedai, which if anyone here reads the books understands as being crucial parts of the story that once scrapped, changes literally everything. So nothing is similar to the books, except in location name and character name. And beyond that? Rings of Power is enjoyable even if you saw it as stand alone, whereas Wheel of Time is not because it has the cheesiest YA CW show quality in the world, just with a higher budget, and that is all.

Now I can see the complaints Rings of Power has had, but most of it is painfully overblown. I mean, yes, obviously there is a lot different, like with Mithril and Finrod, but changes are expected. It's about how changes are made though, that can effect the way a show is seen. And the Witcher and Wheel of Time? They don't do it well at all. I say all of that as a massive fan of both Middle-Earth and Wheel of Time. There's just way too much wrong with WOT Amazon on top of it just being bad media. I can't even recognize Robert Jordan in that comedic cow dung, where as I can at least still gleam tons of J.R.R. Tolkien (and his son's notes) out of Rings of Power.

I cannot count the number of times I have read The Lord of the Rings, The Hobbit and Children of Hurin, I've read the Silmarillion only twice. I've read the Wheel of Time effectively twice, I re-read the entire series in anticipation of A Memory of Light which I have only read once. As for the shows, I technically watched four episodes of The Rings of Power, although I fell asleep during episodes two and four, and I watched two episodes of The Wheel of Time. I'll note that I've read summaries of the full runtimes of both shows, which, along with this erstwhile essay, is about the maximum amount of time I'm willing to spend on either.

Help me understand what you mean by "core concept". In every sense of the word I see both these particular adaptations as a complete failure on almost every level, and my particular hatred of The Rings of Power stems precisely from its inability to grasp anything resembling a "core concept" of Tolkein's work. It's a lazy and tiresome slog through a visually attractive yet vapid world, devoid of meaning or character beyond the smallest glimmers of something greater which I can only assume the show's creators stumbled upon accidentally. I didn't find The Wheel of Time nearly as offensive purely because I firmly believe that Tolkein's work is probably the most significant contribution to Western literature of the past century, and that in turn colours my expectations for any adaptation of it. But the problems with these two shows are the same, and it's hard to see The Wheel of Time as anything but a testbed for The Rings of Power.

Let me just dispense with the inevitable (and I think I've written this in the Rings of Power thread) and say that in terms of adaptation, I am not nitpicky in the slightest when it comes to matters of adaptation. Peter Jackson's movies are incredible and have set the golden standard for fantasy films and TV series to the point where The Rings of Power continues to unceremoniously ape their general aesthetic - that being said, the films took significant liberties with the actual plot and, in some cases, characterization. You'll see few people lamenting Tom Bombadil's exclusion, but there are plenty of hardcore Lord of the Rings enthusiasts who hate what the movies did to Faramir's character, or to Denethor, or to Aragorn and Elrond. I am completely fine with all of that, for one very simple reason - they are fantastic films. They were made with care and where liberties were taken with the main story, they were done in a way that made sense with the general pacing and structure of the medium. They made sure to put emphasis where it was needed, and most of all, they kept the major themes of the story at the forefront - heroism, from the ordinary to the extraordinary, a sense of wonder and scale, the sublime, and the presence of real evil, along with its corrupting influence. The plot points may have changed, but the story was the same due to that underlying morality and sensibility, and that is why I consider those movies to be, to date, the best adaptation of Lord of the Rings.

Which brings us to the billion-dollar turd lately plastered, albeit briefly, all over my Amazon packages. The reason why I find these shows to be the same is because they are both cynical products of an industry that seeks to occupy your attention for the brief moment it will take to squeeze the next dollar out of you, and nothing more. I hold no illusions about why Peter Jackson's movies were made, but we now live in a highly-accelerated media landscape where massive corporations vacuum up intellectual properties in order to chase the next trend and the almighty dollar. In this case, Amazon Studios has been relatively up-front in broadcasting their intention to produce the next Game of Thrones, and their ploy in doing so was to snag one of the greatest fantasy properties of all time, and one of its best imitators (at least initially).

As I said, The Wheel of Time was the prototype in this case, and it's hard not to see it that way - it shares the same issues of terrible writing, plot tumors, awful pacing, and a generally lacklustre production that The Rings of Power does. I could not give less of a **** if they change how the One Power works or relatively-minor issues like the Aes Sedai or whatever - I just want them to tell a good story based on the source material. They failed at that while doing what you describe, and this was no more than pure carelessness and poor craftsmanship on the part of the writing team. Why change the way the Dragon works in the story? For no reason, other than a cheap mystery-box plot arc for a few episodes. Why change Rand and Egwene's relationship? For some cheap sex scenes and a manufactured romantic plot tumor. It's short-term thinking from the creators for the simple reason that they don't care about the plot or even the long-term viability of the story nearly as much as you do - they only care about whatever they can do to keep as broad an audience as possible "engaged" so that they can in turn consume the next bit of "content".

And what of The Rings of Power? The one credit I'll give the show is that it resisted the urge to include the now-mandatory lurid sexual content found in its peers. As for the rest, it's very much the same as The Wheel of Time. As an example, episode one's interaction between Galadriel and Gil-Galad is a Middle-Earth'ed version of a scene from a cut-rate cop drama, where Galadriel is the loose cannon and Gil-Galad's asking for her badge and gun and shipping her off to Valinor. This is offensive on multiple levels - beyond the **** writing in general, it cheapens our conception of Valinor and the elves. The show is full of this nonsense - script elements and plot beats Frankensteined together from past popular shows and lazily thrown together, throwing a mountain of **** at the wall and hoping some of it will stick and generate "engagement". The persistent presence of, again, cheap mystery-box plot points serves to illustrate both just how little the writing team evidently cares about what they're creating as well as how little they care about the long-term viability of the project as a whole. The whole Harfoot plot essentially boils down to "it was Gandalf the whole time", something any viewer with even a casual interest in Lord of the Rings probably guessed to begin with, but which was not only conceived of as a good idea for a central plot thread but also strung along as an actual mystery for the entirety of the season, revealing that he "IS GOOD" to absolutely nobody's surprise. What is the point of this plot thread existing? Why does it exist to begin with? Simply because it crams a cheap mystery into the show's opening act, unstealthily sneaks a pointed connection to something that just reminds you that Peter Jackson's far better movies still exist, and, importantly, connects to the other big mystery that unfolds over the season - where's Sauron?

That one in particular is deplorable for the typical reduction of a grand-scale conflict of good and evil to petty interpersonal drama. Galadriel hates Sauron because he murdered her brother; Sauron, in turn, is content, apparently, to chill on his vacatipn yacht until Galadriel jumps into the middle of the ocean and happens to find him, and is so annoying that she reminds him why he wanted to enslave the world again. She subtly falls for not-Aragorn (and I feel like we were one board of directors meeting away from getting a sex scene here) because he, too, is a loose cannon cop until she realizes it was actually Sauron, and the real evil was HER! Oh no! I honestly have no words for how bad this plot is. I could go on and on about other stuff, like Trump's Numenor, the IT WAS MORDOR ALL ALONG, the lack of scale, the laughable attempt at what they were trying to do with Adar, but hopefully I've gotten my point across.

Cheap is the word I would use to describe The Rings of Power - for the immense amount of money that went into its creation, it thinks remarkably little of itself as a work of art, because it isn't. It is merely "content", it knows this, and you can even trace the point where Amazon turned off the money valve to generate interest and "engagement" from the various bought-and-paid-for publications. It is poorly-written, disastrously-plotted, and made in the sincerest spirit of mediocrity. Its existence offends me, not because of its quality as a Tolkein adaptation, a criticism I was more than willing to leave at the door, but because it is an utterly inferior cultural product masquerading as something with greater pretensions.

It fails completely even if it were an original setting with original characters. That you claim to enjoy it and not The Wheel of Time is simply mind-boggling to me. I fail to understand this on any level. What do you like about it? Why? Try to describe the story of the show without any specific reference to characters or events. If you're having a hard time, it's not a good story.
 
What do you mean "like Trump's Numenor"? Donald Trump?

(This belongs more in the Rings of Power thread.)

By the way, a teaser for The Witcher: Blood Origin (prequel show) has been released.
And boy, does it look bad. As if The Witcher show wasn't bad enough.

 
When a book is already massively popular and brings a guaranteed audience, much more respect should be shown to the source content. The current trend of allowing TV/Film hacks freedom to script their own mediocre and at times disinterested take on lore/characters/worlds is irritating. The LOTR films and GOT TV series remained broadly faithfully to the spirit of their source material. I was very disappointed by pointless changes foisted on the WOT series. However, while I consider the script writing on ROP bad, I blame them less as the copywright wrangles ensured Amazon acquired rights to make a TV series about events without much detailed source material, leaving it wholy dependent upon mediocre modern hacks.
 
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