Winning as a honorable character

[kittehs]

I am fighting as a honorable female pure commander who is also a strong swadia loyalist. The problem is while we are winning battles the wars are being lost. We are often war with multiple nations as it nirmaly is for swadia, so we take a castle and immefietly enemy takes ut back.

- It is impossible to take and hold any land with so many enemy lords running around.

- I dont loot villages as i.am RPing a honorable char and its impossible to keep earning money since trading is stopped. I have enterprises but trading gave me way more (10000+ per week sometime)

- I cant imprison lords without losing honor. So it is an endless attrition battle where I keep beating same enemy again and again

How do I break this stalemate without impridoning lords ? There are too many for me to deal with.

 

[CommonUsername]

The dark side luke! Its the only way 

 

[Galvatron]

The issue you are having is pretty common when playing a Swadian game.  But also the way you are chosing to play will have some draw backs.  Being the good guy is great but wars aren't about being nice, you win by killing the enemy and taking their stuff. 

Perosnaly I dont think looting is a dishonorable thing, just how things go when you take over an area, but thats just me I guess.

You can't fight everyone forever or you will slowly be blead dry, so my suggestion would be to pick a direction and focus your attacking efforts that way.  Granted I dont know how your game is progressing but maybe go deal with which ever faction is causing you the most trouble.  Pick a direction and go, dont go every where at once or you will spread your self to thin.  Yes you will probably lose some ground but you will also be gaining new land as you go, and once you knock off your primary aggressor you can turn around and deal with anyone pushing into Swadia.

Basicly it sounds like you cant fight everyone, so accept that, embrace it, and focus your power in one direction.

A note on honor RPing, at some point you might have to decide what is more important, your personal honor or the well being of your Nation, and intersting set of choices no doubt, and of course thats what makes it fun =P


GL!

 

[Filou]

Depends how deeply you want a honorable character to be.  Is it always going for the thing that gives honor or simply avoiding stuff that removes honor?  If the former, well ... what you are facing is the direct consequence of that kind of roleplay.

If the second, then you have more options.  Capturing lords does not remove honor, so it's not technically a dishonorable thing to do. It's the refusal to accept a ransom that removes honor.
In my current game I gave myself the objective of releasing most lords for relations.  I capture the ones that refer to me or my troops as dogs.  But ironically I also capture most of the ones that I already have good relations with. 

Raiding villages, well that also does not remove honor while you're at war, but the honorable or 'good' companions frown upon it, so you could skip that.  It's a good source of income for you, but I don't think it has such a big impact on wars whether you do it or not.  AI lords raid way more than a lone player can.  There are other sources of income in wartime, like caravans, general loot and prisoners (much more honorable to sell them as captives than to kill them ).

 

[kittehs]

Thanks for the advice guys really helpful.

Now what is the general method for winning wars ? I feel like Rommel here, I have finally figured out tactical command to point I can win while vastly outnumbered but the war goes on....

In my previous save as a Nord I just stocked Huscarls,forgot field battles and went spamming sieges. I won but it was BORING. Swadian Sieges are more fun as I use Sharpshooters to kill the garrision but it is not as fast as a Huscarl steamroller that can take a dozen castles in a week !

In short what is best way to make your nation stronger and defeat other nations in Warband ? Is it worth coordinating with the marshall and other lords ? I generally fight by myself despite having great relations with everyone as byproduct of high honor.

 

[malacka07]

You cant be honorable and swadian in the same time. Everybody lolling on swadia, the losers of the game
(j/k)

 

[Alyiakal]

Swadia excels in field battles. Massed Swadian Knights can destroy numerically superior armies with little to no losses. Pick a direction and attack, running down as many enemy parties as possible (capturing lords is not dishonourable; refusing to ransom them is). You should be able to keep an entire kingdom worth of lords suppressed in this fashion (unless they all mass with the marshal and bring a 2000 strong army to your doorstep).

Winning sieges is a bit more interesting. Swadian Knights perform decently dismounted and in melee, because they pack Morningstars. However, they're extremely expensive and fare poorly against top tier melee in other factions. Swadian Sharpshooters also leave something to be desired, and their infantry are generally not worth using. You may want to stock up on released prisoners belonging to the Rhodoks, Nords, or even Vaegirs, as their infantry perform better in melee. Failing that, you should have a decent pile of mercenary line units that you can quickly upgrade into Hired Blades, which are a slightly better option in a siege than Swadian Knights. Admittedly, however, Swadian Knights are very easy to train, because, much like Khergit Lancers, it's trivial to get enough trainer on you and your companions to bring them to Tier 4, and Swadian Men at Arms are almost as effective as the Knights while on horseback.

The trick when playing Swadia is that since you're in the centre of the map, you want to attack in a single direction until you hit the edge of the map, taking as much territory and towns for yourself as possible (to bankroll the elite Knight armies that you'll need). You'll have to ignore the damage to the rest of Swadia in the process, so let someone else be the marshal.

 

[Argeus the Paladin]

Every time I hear "Mass Swadian Knights" I kill a pony. Please think of the ponies.

I think the biggest issue of a Swadian player is that the lords don't regen quite enough from the beating they get, and the issue snowballs. Ever come to the aid of a Swadian lord and find yourself spawning with a company of useless footmen and skirmishers and maybe half a dozen MAA?

This is an idea I just get: Is there any way we can make the faction reinforcement list respond according to how badly it is being beaten or how many other realms are dogpiling it, so that the more its lords gets beaten up the more reinforcement the kingdom would get? Or is that hardcoded?

 

[bakters]

I am fighting as a honorable female pure commander

  That's how I _always_ play with a faction.  I never actually even tried doing anything dishonorable, and I'm not even sure if I should be proud or ashamed of it.

who is also a strong swadia loyalist. The problem is while we are winning battles the wars are being lost. We are often war with multiple nations as it nirmaly is for swadia, so we take a castle and immefietly enemy takes ut back.

  Just kill'em all. 

- It is impossible to take and hold any land with so many enemy lords running around.

  You are mistaken.  Anyways, attack.  Be hyperaggressinve.

- I dont loot villages as i.am RPing a honorable char and its impossible to keep earning money since trading is stopped. I have enterprises but trading gave me way more (10000+ per week sometime)

- I cant imprison lords without losing honor. So it is an endless attrition battle where I keep beating same enemy again and again

  You can imprison them, you just can't refuse ransom.  That's how I currently play with my own kingdom.  I managed to win against three factions with practically no help from my own lords (I play a pure warrior, so I don't do any persuading nonsense, and I modded the game so they rarely leave their king).

  How do I break this stalemate without impridoning lords ? There are too many for me to deal with.

  If you never imprison anyone, and have everything related on default settings, it may prove difficult sometimes.  What I'm talking about is, that when you win a war singlehandedly and conquer a lot of new land, your faction will have a tendency to implode due to loss of relations when king assigns new fiefs.  But first you should be able to do that.  That is, finish a faction alone, with practically no help from your marshal or other lords. 

My way is to conquer a lot and do not ask for any rewards.  I leave castles undefended and finish anybody who comes around to take it.  If you lose it, just take it back and do it all over again.  I take only strategically crucial cities, sometimes castles, and reinforce them myself.  The rest is a gift for my faction. 

The general idea is to either finish at least one faction, while beating any huge armies other factions might assemble, or to cause so much attrition and take so much of their land, that they eventually ask for peace.  I release every honorable lord with relations to me of less than 100. and I take prisoner every dishonorable one.  I never refuse ransom.  I never loot villages.  I never attack caravans or villagers (I might help someone else though, if they need help).  The only dishonorable thing I ever do is when I betray my former liege when starting my own kingdom, and that's only because of a bug in Diplomacy, and I brand my saves as "betrayal".

Better die with honor then live without it!

 

[bakters]

Swadia excels in field battles. Massed Swadian Knights can destroy numerically superior armies with little to no losses. Pick a direction and attack, running down as many enemy parties as possible (capturing lords is not dishonourable; refusing to ransom them is). You should be able to keep an entire kingdom worth of lords suppressed in this fashion (unless they all mass with the marshal and bring a 2000 strong army to your doorstep).

  When their army is on the move, you should be able to kill a fraction of it if you attack at night.  Attack the first lord or the last one, and reload if you must.  Sometimes they all join, but even then you should be able to simply leave and run away.  Loss of morale should not kill you, considering how much fighting you do.

Winning sieges is a bit more interesting. Swadian Knights perform decently dismounted and in melee, because they pack Morningstars. However, they're extremely expensive and fare poorly against top tier melee in other factions.

  I generally run around with an army which is a mix of archers and cavalry, but I often have a garrison full of top tier infantry too, for difficult fortresses.  If I really have to, I will load with them and attack those annoying strongholds.  What is important, is to be able to win field battles with dismounted army against bad odds too, otherwise it might backfire...

Swadian Sharpshooters also leave something to be desired, and their infantry are generally not worth using.

  They just suck.  Wasted slot, and that's it.  Better to run around with knights only.

The trick when playing Swadia is that since you're in the centre of the map, you want to attack in a single direction until you hit the edge of the map, taking as much territory and towns for yourself as possible (to bankroll the elite Knight armies that you'll need). You'll have to ignore the damage to the rest of Swadia in the process, so let someone else be the marshal.

  Good advice, that.

 

[kittehs]

This is bad. Harlaus indicted Regas my chars husband. I reloaded and same thing happen again because he has like -68 luege relation. I need this guy becausr I usr his castle to stocpile nearly thousand troops without paying any maintainence.

Is there a way to improve a specific lords relation to his liege ?

 

[JosieJ]

Oh, dear, the bad news just keeps on coming!  Unfortunately, as a female character you can mend relations between two vassals, or another vassal and the liege, but you can't mend relations between your own husband and the liege because your husband is the one who gives out those "kiss & make up" type quests!  The only way to even incidentally improve relations between your husband and the liege is to get your husband to attend a feast the liege gives and if the relationship is negative, the only way to do that is to catch your husband in the field and trick him into going to the feast ("The enemy is coming, flee to...").  Needless to say, this only works if you catch things when the relationship is just beginning to sour.  A relation of -68 is just too bad to repair this way.

If you're roleplaying a loyal character who won't rebel, it pays to choose your husband accordingly: one with a decent personality (good-natured, upstanding) who's on good terms with the liege.  Then keep an eye on the relation as the game progresses to make sure it stays good. 

I generally play female characters and have learned to take a castle on my own before joining a faction--makes things a whole lot easier.  In one game, I did marry into a faction and used my husband's castle to store troops and the same thing happened to me: he had a crappy relationship with the king and defected, and all my troops went with him!  I was able to convince him to return to the faction eventually, but I'm not sure if this was a feature of Native or of Diplomacy, which I was running at the time.  You could try it, though; just take a castle on your own in the meantime, so you'll have someplace secure to store your troops if it works.

 

[kittehs]

Well I had enough of Harlaus, I found Isolla and rebelled. Due to high honor and relations nearly a third of Swadia immedietly came over to my side with a little persuation. 

Like Bender in Futurama said I am going to make my own kingdom with blackjack and...infact forget the blackjack.

 

[JosieJ]

You do know how easy it is for female characters to rebel and keep their fiefs, right?  Just convince your husband that you should be queen and you'll start out as your own kingdom, with all your fiefs (castles and towns and their associated villages, that is), and your husband as lord.  You can convince your husband that he should be king, but I've never tried it that way (I'm too much of a control freak!) and don't know if there are any essential differences.  It may not have been as easy to convince lords to join you, though, depending on your right to rule (in a claimant rebellion, you're using the claimant's right to rule to persuade lords to join).