Will you lose all hope if the next patch isnt HUGELY oriented towards MP ?

Kentucky James VII

BioAfrikaner
Duke
Best answers
2
Multiplayer will never be realistic or even sensical, to some extent. The game has to be fair above all else. Stuff you can get away with in singleplayer and more casual modes like captain just won't fly in TDM or Skirmish, and picking up weapons without restriction is one of them. You also have to consider what kind of gameplay that promotes: how would the game function competitively if the best option is to wait for teammates to die and then loot them?
 
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0
Oh just a little



That's purely captain mode I have barely played SP

Do you have any idea how fun ruining and stupid and unrealistic what you're suggesting is. Do you have any clue how pathetic it would be as a new player, to see a guy get dehorsed, and think "oh i'll grab the horse" but he can't because he's not the right "class"

This game is so unbelievably good, and the fact that, like in a real battle, you can pick up other peoples ****, is a huge part of that.

Maybe I get banned for this (worth it) but if you don't get that you are a ****ing moron, and god help you (doubtful)
Your argument is as convoluted as you are. Why would someone who isn’t a cavalry class automatically think he can ride a horse??? When I kill a Pyro in TF2 do I automatically think I can pick up his flamethrower? Does killing mercy in overwatch give me the ability to suddenly heal?? Sit down

I can partake in discourse with Rektsaurus about this because at least he’s respectful and knowledgeable but you are a special breed of special.
Also unless you want to duel get out of my DMs
 

LingLing

Recruit
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0
Multiplayer will never be realistic or even sensical, to some extent. The game has to be fair above all else. Stuff you can get away with in singleplayer and more casual modes like captain just won't fly in TDM or Skirmish
While I get your point, it irks me when people don't consider Captains mode to be competitive or to have a competitive scene. We actually have a vibrant tournament community for captains mode, while it may not have the same mass appeal as Skirmish, there is a different type of skill and playstyle that is required to be successful in high level captains mode. If you are ever actually curious about the competitive captain mode scene, www.captainleague.com come check out this discord, there's another tournament on July 11th. The players take it extremely seriously and have full 6 stack teams that compete against other teams, if you think you can enter and beat these players casually, you are in for a rude awakening.
 
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0
While I get your point, it irks me when people don't consider Captains mode to be competitive or to have a competitive scene. We actually have a vibrant tournament community for captains mode, while it may not have the same mass appeal as Skirmish, there is a different type of skill and playstyle that is required to be successful in high level captains mode. If you are ever actually curious about the competitive captain mode scene, www.captainleague.com come check out this discord, there's another tournament on July 11th. The players take it extremely seriously and have full 6 stack teams that compete against other teams, if you think you can enter and beat these players casually, you are in for a rude awakening.
Captain mode is SUPER fun but not my cup of tea. I think what he meant was that the balance for a class in Captain and Skirmish should be considered 2 separate entities. Obviously classes will perform different in groups of 10 than in groups of 1.
 

LingLing

Recruit
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0
Captain mode is SUPER fun but not my cup of tea. I think what he meant was that the balance for a class in Captain and Skirmish should be considered 2 separate entities. Obviously classes will perform different in groups of 10 than in groups of 1.
Agreed entirely, I'm hoping they go with this route and split the classes between modes.
 

CdJrcxx

Sergeant
NW
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0
I think what he meant was that the balance for a class in Captain and Skirmish should be considered 2 separate entities. Obviously classes will perform different in groups of 10 than in groups of 1.
I've had the same thoughts. I'd say it would be pretty difficult to balance the game so that both big armies of AI engaging and small 6v6 are equally satisfying. We saw it in Warband that the individual combat and overall balance was great for players to master mechanics but lacked really in depth commanding of AI and tactics. It wasn't too hard for a skilled player to literally 1v100 armies and singlehandedly win wars. This issue is not as prevalent in BL. I haven't played Captain since beta but I imagine the way the game is overall composition and strategy is what wins and not just being able to annihilate the bots as one person. This is great, but now the actual combat and balance seems to not be polished and its not aspect that brings the game alive (and quite frankly is killing it atm).

Perhaps as Eb suggested just creating different balancing would benefit both modes so devs aren't trying to find the tedious "feels right" parameters that fit both modes simultaneously and just going with what makes sense for the individual modes.
 
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Agreed entirely, I'm hoping they go with this route and split the classes between modes.
I've had the same thoughts. I'd say it would be pretty difficult to balance the game so that both big armies of AI engaging and small 6v6 are equally satisfying. We saw it in Warband that the individual combat and overall balance was great for players to master mechanics but lacked really in depth commanding of AI and tactics. It wasn't too hard for a skilled player to literally 1v100 armies and singlehandedly win wars. This issue is not as prevalent in BL. I haven't played Captain since beta but I imagine the way the game is overall composition and strategy is what wins and not just being able to annihilate the bots as one person. This is great, but now the actual combat and balance seems to not be polished and its not aspect that brings the game alive (and quite frankly is killing it atm).

Perhaps as Eb suggested just creating different balancing would benefit both modes so devs aren't trying to find the tedious "feels right" parameters that fit both modes simultaneously and just going with what makes sense for the individual modes.
This is one area where the much maligned class system would actually shine. Severely limiting player options for captain mode has also ensured that creating separate balances for all the game modes will not be that challenging because there are fewer variables to work around.

I’ve always felt that the current class system was perfectly reasonable for captain mode. It’s shortcomings are not things that are mandatory for captain mode to be successful.
 

Yukmouth++

Veteran
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0
Agreed entirely, I'm hoping they go with this route and split the classes between modes.
Absolutely, they just cant balance 2h classes the same way for Skirmish and Captain mode. 2h classes perform well in Captain mode because AIs have bad aim with bow, crossbow and throwing weapons. When you try to pull off playing 2h class in Skirmish, its a whole different game. Players dont miss their shots on you, its like absolutely unplayable. Not only are you so vulnerable to projectiles, but the 2h weapons are heavier, so harder to block with. + they have bad armor. 2h classes are WAY too underpowered and unplayed in skirmish.

edit : and dont get me wrong, i enjoy playing Captain mode to an extent, maybe not as much as i enjoy skirmish, but still. But i have this weird feeling that taleworlds are balancing the classes the same way for all modes, which makes literally no sense. It makes 0 sense that berserker and menavlion infantry were nerfed in skirmish... And considering how hyperstrong menav are in Captain, i assume they nerfed the class because of Captain mode.
 

Sundeki

Sergeant Knight at Arms
M&BWB
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0
Perhaps as Eb suggested just creating different balancing would benefit both modes so devs aren't trying to find the tedious "feels right" parameters that fit both modes simultaneously and just going with what makes sense for the individual modes.
Absolutely, they just cant balance 2h classes the same way for Skirmish and Captain mode.
Agreed entirely, I'm hoping they go with this route and split the classes between modes.
Several of us called this out ~8-9 months ago. While there are minor balance changes that differentiate the modes, the core gameplay systems of the two are exactly the same. Many can agree that these systems work perfectly fine for Captain's mode, but the issue is that all of the other modes are shackled to these Captain's mode systems, to their extreme detriment. They're simply too different. If TaleWorlds didn't listen to reason then, they're certainly not going to listen now. Good luck, though.
 

Rektasaurus

Sergeant
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0
Oh just a little



That's purely captain mode I have barely played SP

Do you have any idea how fun ruining and stupid and unrealistic what you're suggesting is. Do you have any clue how pathetic it would be as a new player, to see a guy get dehorsed, and think "oh i'll grab the horse" but he can't because he's not the right "class"

This game is so unbelievably good, and the fact that, like in a real battle, you can pick up other peoples ****, is a huge part of that.

Maybe I get banned for this (worth it) but if you don't get that you are a ****ing moron, and god help you (doubtful)
Yeah, I nerdraged for a bit too. I don’t think eb deserves that though, you may regret using that tone. He’s very reasonable and agreeable except for this one issue. There are others who agree with him too. It’s actually inexplicable to me. I get the point with tf2 and I can think of other games which pull off a rigid class system well. Gw2 was an old classic. Bf games as well. But these are games which can’t be truly competitive. I just can’t for the life of me imagine a real competitive game without the feature to be able to use every item with the same proficiency as every other player. That is like the ultimate balance.

The ability to respawn in the same round is actually also too casual for my tastes. It really should be one life. I feel like I hit the jackpot every time I get to jump back into the round and continue doing damage and if the team has a strong carry, then forget it. That’s where the snowball really starts, not what the carry picked up off the ground, just the fact that the carry can come back and continue doing damage. If the devs change anything big about mechanics, that should be among the first. And then the other things can be looked at, like balancing melee weapon proficiencies. Are they balanced? Idk if they are, I keep forgetting the skill levels.

Captain mode is indeed very well done and I’ve had some of the most fun and best coordination with teammates in that mode. But I also can’t see captain becoming the spectator competitive mode when skirmish is around and really hope it doesn’t. It’s because the ai is actually too rng for competitive. Like when it really gets down to it, it’s just not fair enough to work at a really high level and wouldn’t be as engaging to watch as skirmish would be, even if I might enjoy playing captain mode more.

I don’t see any problem with troops being identical in both modes, I hope they are and that they stay that way. It would be good for the game as practice in one will for sure carry over to the other, and the only differences are really in the introduction of ai units and a larger scale. Applying a change to one would impact the other in the same exact way. It wouldn’t be appropriate for there to be any differences in troop loadout, skills, etc.

The potential for skirmish is so strong, it’s literally bannerlord’s combat system being put to a rigorous test in a form that is immediately accessible to anyone and with some work and the continued support of this community I can really see bannerlord topping the charts.

I have been trawling through the older posts trying to dig up info on fighting mech. I’ll tell you hwat I don’t know what happened but it’s like the discourse took a dive off a cliff like 3 months ago. I was surprised to see that armagan would be posting.

I tend to agree with some of what others posted:

Please fix servers. Please address ping vs gameplay discrepancy. Please tweak combat mechanics. And please communicate with us and give us something to sink our teeth into beyond “we’re removing the city from captain mode rotation”. I don’t think I’m alone in wanting to read some official announcements that are well thought out, rational, and that I can get hyped on.

I’m all about rioting until the next update drop tho don’t get me wrong
 
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KSHMR

Regular
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0
To give you my honest opinion, if I was a developer at TW, and saw that ''**** TW'' meme, I would have laughed my ass off. Frankly, this is just childish behaviour. Sort your personal life out please :smile:
 

Alyss

Master Knight
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0
Oh just a little



That's purely captain mode I have barely played SP

Do you have any idea how fun ruining and stupid and unrealistic what you're suggesting is. Do you have any clue how pathetic it would be as a new player, to see a guy get dehorsed, and think "oh i'll grab the horse" but he can't because he's not the right "class"

This game is so unbelievably good, and the fact that, like in a real battle, you can pick up other peoples ****, is a huge part of that.

Maybe I get banned for this (worth it) but if you don't get that you are a ****ing moron, and god help you (doubtful)
What you see in Hollywood movies isn’t realistic. It takes between 4 and 5 year to have the accuracy of a bannerlord archer approximately. Now in real life you need between 10 and 15 years to master horse archery. So no, what you suggest isn’t realistic. Oh and btw, even though I already stated it: most classes can’t possibly be horse archer because of their armor. You need a flexible armor in order to bend your body to shoot backwards, also you can’t have gloves or mail mittens if you want to be able to use the bow. Realism ? No. Just your child fantasy.


So now that we have established that your vision of realism is completely wrong, what are your arguments for the current items picking ? More interesting gameplay ? No, ruins the actual purpose of having classes. Some weapons should be available for all classes: Spears swords or shields. Because all class has the possibility to buy a shield at first (most units). There is no valid reason to let the current picking system. It’s not good for realism and not good for gameplay.
 
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Yukmouth++

Veteran
Best answers
0
Picking up anything on the Ground is fine, every class being pro at every type of Weapon on the other hand = not okay. A non archer class picking a bow should have the same lame aim that we have at the beginning of a single players campain.

Just like non cav classes should not be good at driving horses and just like non inf classes should not have good athletism compared to inf (swing speed for one)
 

Alyss

Master Knight
Best answers
0
Picking up anything on the Ground is fine, every class being pro at every type of Weapon on the other hand = not okay. A non archer class picking a bow should have the same lame aim that we have at the beginning of a single players campain.

Just like non cav classes should not be good at driving horses and just like non inf classes should not have good athletism compared to inf (swing speed for one)
Would be better but I still don't think archers and infs should be able to mount horses.
 

Gibby Jr

Marquis
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0
Picking up anything on the Ground is fine, every class being pro at every type of Weapon on the other hand = not okay. A non archer class picking a bow should have the same lame aim that we have at the beginning of a single players campain.

Just like non cav classes should not be good at driving horses and just like non inf classes should not have good athletism compared to inf (swing speed for one)
exactly.

what's the difference between the legionary and cataphract classes? they're essentially the same in armour and weapons, yet there's a 60 gold difference between the cost of the two. the heavy horse is worth 60 gold because of how strong it is and how much of an impact it makes. the idea of a player being able to inflate the value of their class by 60 gold just by finding a stray heavy horse is absurd from a balance perspective. similarly, if infantry and cavalry can pick up and use bows with excellent accuracy, then once the enemy archers are dead the team that won that engagement can field horse archers and numerous heavily armoured ranged units. it's bad for balance because it's unpredictable and can massively inflate the value of certain classes simply by them coming across a horse or a bow/xbow.

not only does it not make sense from a balance perspective, but if we're talking realism (as many like to) then it's even more absurd. why should a peasant know how to ride? why should a legionary be able to use a bow accurately? the logic is flawed from a balance and a realism perspective.

i agree with any class being able to pick up and use any weapon because the balance impact of an individual weapon is much less significant than that of a horse. i don't mind if TW balance this by making inf/archer classes have a really low riding skill or if they make inf/cav really inaccurate with a bow, or if they outright remove the ability for these classes to mount/pick up these items. either way the end goal of making it non-viable and balanced is achieved.

i also think that archer and cavalry classes should be weaker in melee, as they were in warband, to make infantry more important as a component in each team. right now infantry are still by far the weakest class and the BEAST actually has class limits because of the imbalances. that isn't where the conversation is right now on this thread but i think different stats for different classes is a huge deal and should be a much higher priority, especially since it would make balancing much simpler and a matter of tweaking unit stats rather than fundamentally changing how different roles work.
 

Yukmouth++

Veteran
Best answers
0
Would be better but I still don't think archers and infs should be able to mount horses.
I just created a SP game, and with 0 riding skill and a bad horse in a tournament, let me tell you it would be VERY lame to manoeuvre that in Town outskirt. So bad you might as well not ride at all. It feels like trying to make a ship turn. They should recreate this sort of bad riding performance for non-cav classes.
 

Alyss

Master Knight
Best answers
0
I just created a SP game, and with 0 riding skill and a bad horse in a tournament, let me tell you it would be VERY lame to manoeuvre that in Town outskirt. So bad you might as well not ride at all. They should recreate this sort of bad riding performance for non-cav classes.
I am mostly talking about the comp community. I agree that for tdm it wouldn't be gamebreaking, but it could for the comp scene.

Also, since I don't see that often. Mailed Horses should be MUCH slower and have less maneuverability
 

Yukmouth++

Veteran
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0
exactly.

what's the difference between the legionary and cataphract classes? they're essentially the same in armour and weapons, yet there's a 60 gold difference between the cost of the two. the heavy horse is worth 60 gold because of how strong it is and how much of an impact it makes. the idea of a player being able to inflate the value of their class by 60 gold just by finding a stray heavy horse is absurd from a balance perspective. similarly, if infantry and cavalry can pick up and use bows with excellent accuracy, then once the enemy archers are dead the team that won that engagement can field horse archers and numerous heavily armoured ranged units. it's bad for balance because it's unpredictable and can massively inflate the value of certain classes simply by them coming across a horse or a bow/xbow.

not only does it not make sense from a balance perspective, but if we're talking realism (as many like to) then it's even more absurd. why should a peasant know how to ride? why should a legionary be able to use a bow accurately? the logic is flawed from a balance and a realism perspective.

i agree with any class being able to pick up and use any weapon because the balance impact of an individual weapon is much less significant than that of a horse. i don't mind if TW balance this by making inf/archer classes have a really low riding skill or if they make inf/cav really inaccurate with a bow, or if they outright remove the ability for these classes to mount/pick up these items. either way the end goal of making it non-viable and balanced is achieved.

i also think that archer and cavalry classes should be weaker in melee, as they were in warband, to make infantry more important as a component in each team. right now infantry are still by far the weakest class and the BEAST actually has class limits because of the imbalances. that isn't where the conversation is right now on this thread but i think different stats for different classes is a huge deal and should be a much higher priority, especially since it would make balancing much simpler and a matter of tweaking unit stats rather than fundamentally changing how different roles work.
Agreed, but definitely not high prio.
 

MArdA TaleWorlds

Localization
Community Support
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
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2
We are aware of this and working to address this issue.
We are testing many combinations of perks and equipment to improve the Troops, expect some adjustments after the Combat changes go live.
Just for a reminder, we are aware of the issues regarding troop skill levels and we are working to address this issue. Probably not right away, though.