Will there be religion in bannerlord?

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vito397

Knight at Arms
WBWF&SNWVC
Religon would definetly add more depth. I don't understand adamant refusal of some of the repliers here, as if the OP requested religion be the focus of the game. If implemented correctly it would really help out with the little info with have on Calradia's history. Perisno, Pendor, Nova Aetas and others have implemented such things. If we already have 1 state=1 culture, instead of 50 countries per culture or one empire spanning over several ones, i dont see why something such as religion, even if just as a lore thing, wouldnt be added.
 

JayWalker

Regular
Religon would definetly add more depth. I don't understand adamant refusal of some of the repliers here, as if the OP requested religion be the focus of the game. If implemented correctly it would really help out with the little info with have on Calradia's history. Perisno, Pendor, Nova Aetas and others have implemented such things. If we already have 1 state=1 culture, instead of 50 countries per culture or one empire spanning over several ones, i dont see why something such as religion, even if just as a lore thing, wouldnt be added.

In Warband there was a backdrop for religion. Lords would mention things, but it had no real impact on gameplay. I would want the same from Bannerlord. Pendor is my favorite mod, and I have played both Perisno and Nova Aetas and they are fantastic, but I think that is where religion belongs: Mods. Mods that can take chances and do whatever they want with their storytelling and make new systems around religion (much as Pendor did with certain knightly orders and evil cults). For the base game though I really just want the base experience, adding religion seems extraneous and pointless unless it is just something in the background or lore.
I think the real problem comes if systems are implemented surrounding an element like religion and then a modder has to figure out what to do with those gameplay elements and systems which are part of the overall balance of the game when they are creating a world without an expressed religion. I mean Native is unlikely to be the game people play most often 5 years from now. I don't even consider Warband native the base game anymore (I tend to think of Diplomacy mod as the base game), and I expect similar things will happen with Bannerlord where straight up improvements will be made on the base game. Religion might be one of those improvements, but I would prefer it in a DLC or mod.
 

The Luminary

Sergeant
Minor factions or clans based on a certain religions would certainly make the game more interesting. Making an alliance or adopting that minor faction or clan's religion could give special perks, companions, items, and units, but perhaps decrease relations with other factions or clans.
 

Aruda

Knight at Arms
VC
I believe you guys have a really euro-centric and somewhat "modern" understanding of "religion". (Which is weird, I assumed most M&B Fans are history nerds). First we do not need "real life religions". That would definitely break the lore. But religion doesn't go against the fantasy concept. Nearly every fantasy world has religions. The Lord of the Rings has religion, ASOIAF has religion, why should M&B has no religion? Actually it would make every faction in the game a bit more unique. In Warband basically nothing differed between the factions except for architecture, troops and clothing. The whole concept of "culture" is some what "bland" in M&B which is a shame.

Religion is not "apolitical". Believing that religion is primarily and individual believe system, in some sort of "higher entity" is a modern understanding of the term. Religion, in ancient times, was an essential part of the political and social sphere. It WAS the social and political system. There was not just no separation between religion and politics, there was no distinction. Religion would provide laws and political principles and it would legitimize the regime/ruler/government. Beside that (based on the theory of Emile Durkheim) religion would "create" a community. A society can only reflects itself or perceive itself by "acting as a society". It therefore becomes a "community". Religion was therefore a major factor in creating a common, social identity. So saying that "this game is about Warfare and Politics, not beliefs" is just an (sorry to say it) ignorant statement.

It is also a christocentric idea to assume that there is a whole "religious sphere" separated from the political sphere. In your text you're some what implying a "church", where religious leaders would try to influence politics. That's christocentric. The concept of a "church" is pretty much unknown to many religions. The "worldly leader" was also often the head of the state religion. Just think about the Roman Emperor and the Emperor's cult. Or the Muslim Caliph. During the height of English Absolutism the King was also the head of the church (and the Queen still is). According to Thomas Hobbes "Absolutism" is not the separation between the religious sphere and the worldly sphere. Absolutism is when monarchy and church fuse into one.

In history there were multi culture and multi religious armies. Yet it was always difficult to create a common bond in such an army, a common identity. With some charsima perks and state policies one could maybe compensate difficulties with multi religious troops. In my opinion it wouldn't take away freedom, it would make things just a bit more challenging and immersive. And before you ask: I have a B.A. in religious studies and I am currently in my M.A. studies

Dude have you really read what I wrote there? Who said real life religions? I merely took Christianisty as an example, the things I said applies to fantasy religions as well. You gave ASOIAF as an example, and I say that I wouldnt want a fanatical sect in Bannerlord similar to Red God belief ruin my gameplay experience with some nonsense objectives, characters etc. Warband didnt have religion, having religion now would destroy the lore. What happened to the Calradians after 11th cent? All became Atheist?
 
There is religions is Warband, NPCs speak about Gods, Heavens, churches and pilgrims, but it does not have a gameplay mechanics. Bannerlord will be probably the same.
 
It seems like many don't want fictional gameplay mechanic into fictional game because they don't like religion in real life. Which is silly.
Its not like religion has to be very major thing that is always present at everything. We could have lot of variety with it. Some groups to whom religion is very important, while some would not care about it at all. Some care about it but it is very private matter to them, not something they talk about.
Maybe initially most factions would have "what ever" attitude towards religion. But if player wants to, they could ally with some cult for example and give them more and more power in the faction, eventually installing never before seen state religion. Or exactly the opposite, getting rid of religious influence. Or not do anything at all.

And just remember how many wars there were between Christians. Crusades did not stop Christians fighting each other, they were just one of the many wars but with different motivation. And 4th Crusade was pretty much just raid of Constantinple badly disguised as religious war for Holy Land. And it was not uncommon to have soldiers from "wrong" religion. Many Islamic rulers had Christian soldiers. The famous Varangian guard was more loyal than many Christian bodyguards, and altough some converted, some would still remain pagan.

Adding religion to game does not need to change anything we do. It can just offer new opportunities to those who are interested.

I think argument that Warband did not have religion is flawed. Just because something was not a gameplay mechanic or not mentioned does not mean it would not exist in the lore. There are always many things that definetly would exist in the lore, but simply were not present in the game. And just look at how different map was in Mount & Blade vs Warband. How do you explain that? It was in different part of Calradia? Or maybe game was just still evolving and not everything was yet present, or how they wanted it.
 

Occyfel

Veteran
Can someone explain me the "Thanks God there is none" ? You're against something that could potentially bring incredible depth to the gameplay and to the lore ?
And T.W doesn't want to offend anyone, best if they leave it out.
 

flavberg

Knight
WBNWVCM&BWF&S
As someone who's made role-playing servers, administrated them and played them in Warband, I must say religion was probably the only thing we faced issues with in terms of lore. There is mention of religion in Warband, it's untrue to say there is not, although very limited, such as some characters speaking briefly about "God", or just mentioning him. We had to make our custom lore most of the time, which ended up being Makerism. You have to take into account there have been thousands of people playing these role-playing servers.

Should religion be something set-in-stone and written up as official, extended lore? Not necessarily, but there should be some mention of religious details. Deities, perhaps even some religious symbols, saints or sites could do. Christianity or Islam would be far-fetched for a fantasy universe like Calradia. For example, Balion and Jumne were always mentioned in Warband as being lands outside of Calradia, having some heroes from there, and from there on, people could extrapolate further on how things are. It's generally a good idea to work lore into your game, so people have a good understanding of the setting and universe.
 

Occyfel

Veteran
Why would they offend anyone if the religions are fictional ?
I suppose they would be fictional but its still a topic that can be touchy idk, I think if the religions were fictional they would still heavily lean towards real religions
 

Tukata

Recruit
I suppose they would be fictional but its still a topic that can be touchy idk, I think if the religions were fictional they would still heavily lean towards real religions
Well, Crusader Kings 2 depicts real religions and it offends no one.
 

Emil

Squire
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
I liked the religion aspect of the Viking Conquest mod/DLC and would love a mod doing something further with the possibilities in Bannerlord. Religion has a finger in a lot of things from war to love, seeing how various religions can cause issues would be neat. I'll of course join the Brotherhood without Banners and fight for the Lord of Light in any upcoming GoT-mod.
 

Strela1408

Regular
M&B didnt have religion before. Not in Warband and not in previous versions, if they were to add religion all of a sudden whole lore would have to be changed and it wouldn't make sense with Warband at all. Bannerlord takes place in 11th~ century while warband takes place in 13th century. We dont have a single indication of religion in warband so what, after the collapse of Calradic empire everyone went ateist? It wouldnt make sense and would destroy the lore.
In the warband, we could not use throwing machines and one person could move the siege tower. And it turns out that after the disappearance of the Calradian empire, everyone became strong, but stupid?
Without religion, we certainly don’t lose much, but you are talking about all of these opportunities as something bad. Crusades and jihadis awesome opportunities for role play and climbing the career ladder, started as a soldier, and ended the campaign with a knight of the Order of St. Harlaus)
 

Timmortal

Knight at Arms
Why would they offend anyone if the religions are fictional ?
"oh this religion always attacking and on the offence slaugtering innocents is just like 'insert religion' and this benevolent religion here is just like 'insert my own religion'" should that be how people work, no, is that how alot of people work, yes. Religion can be a wonderful thing, until someone ruins it for everyone else. My argument against religion was not really because of this though, or anything to do with real religions, my objection was purely for a long game balance perspective. religion as backround thing im fine with, but even how Viking Conquest added it stared becoming bothersome. Its really just a quick way to get a massive amoung of negative relation and opposing religious factions would end up having more wars against each other, witch leads to more war over land taken/lost. It would mean every game would play more similarly than if not implemented. unless relgion maybe was not a faction thing, but a clan thing, meaning a faction could potentially have many religions within it self and it therefor being an internal power mechanic and not a external faction pressure mechanic.
 
Dude have you really read what I wrote there? Who said real life religions? I merely took Christianisty as an example, the things I said applies to fantasy religions as well. You gave ASOIAF as an example, and I say that I wouldnt want a fanatical sect in Bannerlord similar to Red God belief ruin my gameplay experience with some nonsense objectives, characters etc. Warband didnt have religion, having religion now would destroy the lore. What happened to the Calradians after 11th cent? All became Atheist?

1. As many people here have already explained: It is not the case that there was not mention of "religion" in Warband at all. Certain beliefs were implied (npcs mentioning God and Heavens etc.), it was simply not elaborated in detail. Yet it is not a fact that the people in Warband were "areligious".
2. As I said: The whole concept of culture was pretty bland in Warband. Pretty much nothing differed between the factions except for architecture, troops, clothing and titles. No different laws? No differences in political system and tradition? Bannerlord however seems to change that. Just take a look at the dev blogs for the faction. Now factions seem to have their own unique culture and even differences in political order and system. Which is great in my opinion. It adds more diversity to the factions and it makes things more immersive. Were you annoyed by these new cultural differences? Did you say "that breaks the lore, in Warband barely anything differed between the factions"? Come on be honest.
3. Again religion is not just some fanatics trying to kill infidels. Religion (historically) means law, the form of government and tradition. Choosing your faction in Warband was only about aesthetics and troops. With actual different cultures, laws, tradition and types of government being part of a faction would be even more interesting and a way more unique experience.
 

The Luminary

Sergeant
No and I hope they will never add religion. For me the religion takes away the fantasy element of the game.

That argument makes no sense. Most fantasy games have at least some religion in it. Warcraft, The Elder Scrolls, Finals Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Fire Emblem, The witcher, divinity, ect. Don't get me started on fantasy movies/tv shows. Anything to do with gods, destiny, or the chosen one(s) is religion. Whether it is a fantasy world or not you have to have faith in something.
 
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NachoDawg

Veteran

It seems it will be present to some extent.

That's weird I think I feel something telling me to march on Shariz.

Hey, that's an old reddit post of mine :grin:

I think that image is really interesting because it hints at not only a religion but also competing religions. TaleWorlds have said they are keeping a lot of details hush-hush so we have some surprises when the game is released. I wouldn't be surprised if religion was one of them.

It would not be very M&B-esque to make religion a focal point to separate the factions, but it fits well with the idea of Lords and Chivalry. I could imagine NPC lords having a "Piousness" stat that affects their decision-making process. Not in a way where Pious = Good, but in a way where there is ideological reasoning for their choices rather than 1 of X personality types. Good and Bad lords might work together under the same god, two lords in warring factions might be lenient or extra hard on pious lords of another religion. Lots of little details that could make up a complicated behavioral tree.

Point being, I hope lords will be complex people and that no two lords are exactly the same. The Warband list of personalities needs to be done away with because there is no room for nuance. We should as players be rewarded for understanding the lords around us, and I think it should be so complicated that we can't keep track of many more than 10 lords at a time. A foreign Lord should not just be foreign because of the color on their flag, but foreign as a personality as well. Gaining information about lords you target should be rewarding and help the player put together a larger political picture.

All these "religion in MB = bad" folks haven't thought this through :razz:
 

elcapo29

Squire
Hey, that's an old reddit post of mine :grin:

I think that image is really interesting because it hints at not only a religion but also competing religions. TaleWorlds have said they are keeping a lot of details hush-hush so we have some surprises when the game is released. I wouldn't be surprised if religion was one of them.

It would not be very M&B-esque to make religion a focal point to separate the factions, but it fits well with the idea of Lords and Chivalry. I could imagine NPC lords having a "Piousness" stat that affects their decision-making process. Not in a way where Pious = Good, but in a way where there is ideological reasoning for their choices rather than 1 of X personality types. Good and Bad lords might work together under the same god, two lords in warring factions might be lenient or extra hard on pious lords of another religion. Lots of little details that could make up a complicated behavioral tree.

Point being, I hope lords will be complex people and that no two lords are exactly the same. The Warband list of personalities needs to be done away with because there is no room for nuance. We should as players be rewarded for understanding the lords around us, and I think it should be so complicated that we can't keep track of many more than 10 lords at a time. A foreign Lord should not just be foreign because of the color on their flag, but foreign as a personality as well. Gaining information about lords you target should be rewarding and help the player put together a larger political picture.

All these "religion in MB = bad" folks haven't thought this through :razz:
Yea I agree, and I'm excited for all of the features and quests that haven't been shown. I think there will be a lot of content to play around with.
 
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