Why would you give the Khan's Guard a mace? Or the Sturgian Horse Raider a lance?

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Apocal

Sergeant Knight at Arms
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People have been asking for a second quiver since release. There was an empty slot available. They already had a completely sufficient melee weapon. The glaive is superior to the mace in almost every situation -- the only time it won't be is during a castle siege, standing in a doorway or on one of the stairs in such a direction that they can't perform an overhand. Even in a melee press, the mace isn't doing so hot since the AI can't aim a short weapon effectively.

I guess it could be worse: someone could've put a shield in that spare slot instead.

Also: similar applies to the Sturgian Horse Raider, except even worse. They lost a second set of javelins for a lance that they won't be able to use effectively against anyone with credible ranged troops facing them. Arrows already take a steady tithe of Horse Raiders, even with their circling. Approaching directly means much more accuracy on the part of people loosing/throwing at them so they either need more armor or just to get their second set of javelins restored.
 

Tommy121

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Wait, what! They removed Khans guard bad ass glaives!? Noooo! I think heavy malmuluke cav only have one stack, which is kinda ok caus they have the noble bow.
Sturgia HA losing 2nd stack was as a major downer. Just nearly not as affective anymore. They will deplete a stack in 10 sec, circle, then suicide
 

HalfMetalJacket

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Wait, what! They removed Khans guard bad ass glaives!? Noooo! I think heavy malmuluke cav only have one stack, which is kinda ok caus they have the noble bow.
Sturgia HA losing 2nd stack was as a major downer. Just nearly not as affective anymore. They will deplete a stack in 10 sec, circle, then suicide
They still have their glaives, don't fret. Its just that they have maces now too, which is... alright I guess? Ngl, its odd.

The new weapons are a bit iffy though, yeah. While I think Sturgia's Horse Raiders shouldn't be the absolute best mounted skirmishers, the loss of the second pack stings hard. They could have had a great axe or something instead. At least AI can more reliably line up two handed weapons better than lances.

Sturgian Veteran Warriors gaining spears though is actually alright. Spears still suck in vanilla, but at least now Veteran Warriors just feel a lot more well rounded. I'd say they're the best infantry in the game now. Armour to match Legionaries, a versatile kit and skilled enough to use it all. Their helmets still look dumb, but maybe we'll stop hearing people complain about Sturgia's infantry now.

I'm also liking the nerf to the Darkhan. They're still effective, but they're not as versatile anymore. More comparable to Legionaries now.

Its nice that Oathsworn get javelins, but they still have their riding and athletics the wrong way around. And them and Wildlings are still basically the same in kit.
 

Tommy121

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Didn’t know about there unit changes. Are they in the patch notes? I’m playing sturgia. New play through and building veteran warriors, great news they have spears now and better armour too you say? I love the look of their sturgian shock troops look like hornets but without a shield they get cleaned up my crossbows. Thoughts on the sturgian noble line? Thinking of having a few of them but looking at the inaccuracies of heavy cav even when running down routers is disappointing
 

Apocal

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Wait, what! They removed Khans guard bad ass glaives!? Noooo! I think heavy malmuluke cav only have one stack, which is kinda ok caus they have the noble bow.
Sturgia HA losing 2nd stack was as a major downer. Just nearly not as affective anymore. They will deplete a stack in 10 sec, circle, then suicide
Heavy Mamelukes lost their Noble Bow.
 

HalfMetalJacket

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Heavy Mamelukes lost their Noble Bow.
Oh ****, RIP.

Oh well, they were straight up OP and pretty much outclassed every HA in the game. At least now they feel more like a funky niche unit and not superior to the Khan's Guard. Still a good all rounder unit with good availability.

Its a pity too few were aware of their insane power though.
 

AnandaShanti

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Oh the KG is ruined by 1 stack! Mamelukes I kinda felt it was a balance because they would run out sooner, but were faster and deadlier, not they're just fast...
Did the KG really only have 1 stack before? I really though they had 2.
I guess this gives them a different role then the HHA, but really in most battles just more ammo is better.
 

hruza

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Also: similar applies to the Sturgian Horse Raider, except even worse. They lost a second set of javelins for a lance that they won't be able to use effectively against anyone with credible ranged troops facing them. Arrows already take a steady tithe of Horse Raiders, even with their circling. Approaching directly means much more accuracy on the part of people loosing/throwing at them so they either need more armor or just to get their second set of javelins restored.
I actually like the change. It's true that they will miss second set of javelins against some opponents, but lance makes them more useful all around. I always wished that they get lance, because once they run out of javelins, they are dead against anybody with even cheapest spear. Not to mention that AI have issues using 1H from horseback to begin with. Unless they fixed it lately. I mean my Sturgian horse raiders were attacking target by turning in to opposite direction. They couldn't hit a thing with their short swords.
 

Apocal

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Oh the KG is ruined by 1 stack! Mamelukes I kinda felt it was a balance because they would run out sooner, but were faster and deadlier, not they're just fast...
Did the KG really only have 1 stack before? I really though they had 2.
I guess this gives them a different role then the HHA, but really in most battles just more ammo is better.
They only had one stack before. I would have used a few different words if KG had their second stack taken from them.
 

HalfMetalJacket

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Thinking about it now, I can't help but think that a nerf to the Khan's Guard is inbound. Right now the Khan's Guard lacks the one handed skill to actually use that mace like an elite, but maybe TW will boost it... at the expense of some of their other stats.
 

AnandaShanti

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I noticed today that the HA has a weaker bow then the Raider.... I gonna assume it's balancing thing because their skill works now or something, but it stands out as kinda dum. Like they rank up and use a worse bow, then rank up again and go back to the old bow...... whatever, at least raider have 2 stacks now.
Unless they always did and I was wrong about that too.
 

Slithy

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Personally, I'm most annoyed about the changes to Oathsworn. Really funky having them and wildlings overlap so much. Ironically, the Vlandian Sergeant change actually gave me a substitute for the old Oathsworn.

On the horse raiders, I don't mind them having the spear but I still want them to get another 20ish armor on their saddle to make them viable for the use.
 

HalfMetalJacket

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Personally, I'm most annoyed about the changes to Oathsworn. Really funky having them and wildlings overlap so much. Ironically, the Vlandian Sergeant change actually gave me a substitute for the old Oathsworn.
At least Oathsworn feel somewhat useful in vanilla. I'm still sticking with my own version for now, but javelins have given them something to offer. I'd probably give them a throwing spear, a mace and a little more armour instead though, while giving Wildlings a second set of javelins.
 

Slithy

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At least Oathsworn feel somewhat useful in vanilla. I'm still sticking with my own version for now, but javelins have given them something to offer. I'd probably give them a throwing spear, a mace and a little more armour instead though, while giving Wildlings a second set of javelins.
I'm actually using Horse Raiders and skipping Oathsworn in vanilla. I might prefer a throwing spear, but I would rather they just be a good range-less unit. I also don't think we should be giving as many units maces as seem to be getting them.
 

HalfMetalJacket

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I'm actually using Horse Raiders and skipping Oathsworn in vanilla. I might prefer a throwing spear, but I would rather they just be a good range-less unit. I also don't think we should be giving as many units maces as seem to be getting them.
Horse Raiders and Oathsworn aren't the same thing, but alright.

As they were before though, Oathsworn were a pathetic spear infantry incapable of killing anything in their tier. It doesn't fit Battania's skirmishing style to have infantry without a ranged option either.

I think melee infantry without throwing weapons should just remain the domain of Vlandia. Fits them better in terms of style. I liked Vlandian Sergeants as they were before, wished they didn't take away their short bills. Personally going to let them keep them for my game.

As for maces, I also don't see why more units can't have them. With threats like the Empire around, you'd think kingdoms would arm themselves to deal with their heavy infantry.
 

AnandaShanti

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The KG always prefer to use their glaivs anyways even in bandit hideout hallways.... not that they don't shoot almost everything asap anyways.
Second stack second stack what I want a second stack!