WHY?? why swings have to be 180* angle?

[Terco_Viejo]

Exactly jon01. I'm reminded of Orion's comment which can be applied to practically the whole spectrum of the MP gameplay experience (Battle mode, class system... and a long etc).

Orion said: It's almost as if Warband had this exact same problem in the beta [...] Yet here we are, 10 years later, repeating old mistakes. [...]

As for the animations, there are some that I miss 100% (especially the 1h left to right diagonal hit) which could have been improved for Bannerlord but no... now we have to eat all these unrealistic wide and unpractical swings. Check this out... much better Warband ones:

A pity, I honestly say...

 

[TheCrusader5]

That's because you're spamming overheads almost all of the time (judging by the Skirmish matches you've streamed on Twitch), and you were complaining about overhead swings not hitting when they should do plenty of times too.

For context this is when I was playing in EU with 90+ ping. That has nothing to do with the swing arcs I was complaining about ping related issues in a coping sense.

 

[jon01]

Well, people in EU with low ping have been complaining about overheads not hitting, as well as horizontal swing arcs being too wide.

 

[Brandis.]

I guess this means hitboxes are bound to the animation?

 

[Goyyyio]

Why animations can't be changed though? I understand it's a lot of work, but what is the point of having animations that break the gameplay? This is a core design problem, this is something that needs to be revamped as soon as you can because in release it will completely hurt the rest of the game. People can get used to? Sure, but what do you want to have, a game players have to make extra effort to make it playable, or have a game that works for the players' needs and enjoyment

 

[King_Bark]

Why animations can't be changed though? I understand it's a lot of work, but what is the point of having animations that break the gameplay? This is a core design problem, this is something that needs to be revamped as soon as you can because in release it will completely hurt the rest of the game. People can get used to? Sure, but what do you want to have, a game players have to make extra effort to make it playable, or have a game that works for the players' needs and enjoyment

Changing animations is more work than they're willing to do this late in development. what the players want actually is bad and doesn't make it better either. If a player gets killed by something and they can't replicate it and do it themselves, then they will complain until the devs listen and game is ruined and the playing field gets leveled.

 

[King_Bark]

If the swing arc gets reduced again, then the turn cap can be removed, right?

 

[King_Bark]

There are also issues with opponents being able to spam attacks too quickly (they are not stunned enough after their attack has been blocked) in 2v1s, which make it extremely difficult for the 1 to return an attack unless they kite obnoxiously. However, other issues like that and problems with chambers do not mean swing arcs should remain as they are to excuse the shortcomings in those areas.

I understand once you’re used to the BL swing arcs you learn to just not face your opponent when you want to hit them because the arc is so wide it’ll land anyway, but that is not intuitive for either new players or people coming from Warband. The arcs should be tight enough that you do actually have to look at the person you want to hit.

Go to 41 seconds on this video:

Spoiler

I don’t look at the opponent to my right as I do a right swing at him for 2 reasons. 1) I have to angle myself like that to avoid hitting my teammate because of how wide the arc is. 2) Even if I miss the enemy to my right the arc is so long it’ll carry on and damage the enemy to my left. To me it’s kinda ridiculous that I am not only forced to be that inaccurate because of the swing arc but that I am actually rewarded for doing so, as no matter what my attack is going to land on one of two enemies in that situation.

This. The meta is like speed paddy cake where you take turns doing 1 block and one attack until someone's block fails and there's not much you can do to break up the tempo. I want to be rewarded for playing smart and using footwork and feints, but I'm forced to play as fast as possible at a speed where doing cool things is not allowed. I think this also happens because once someone gets close to you, they're pretty much stuck to you like glue since backing up is slower than moving forward.

 

[Terco_Viejo]

Why animations can't be changed though? I understand it's a lot of work, but what is the point of having animations that break the gameplay? This is a core design problem, this is something that needs to be revamped as soon as you can because in release it will completely hurt the rest of the game. People can get used to? Sure, but what do you want to have, a game players have to make extra effort to make it playable, or have a game that works for the players' needs and enjoyment

Exactly. What I don't understand is the sense of priorities and how management/team leaders/decision makers apply it. "Recently" in e.1.6.1, a rework of the kick animation was introduced, so that is already a proof that it is possible to rework certain animations. In parallel, we also know that cutscenes with various animations for are being created which should keep Gökalp Doğan, Abdullah Nakipoğlu, Olcay Mancılıkçılar, and Sten David Oom busy. Why cutscenes and this kind of animation are prioritary than combat core animations (transversal to SP and MP btw)? Who knows... why™ right? ?

How is it possible to welcome the inactivity of a problem that is part of the foundations of the game? I don't get it... Of course it takes work... but I ask myself, couldn't even a less exaggerated repositioning of the "act_ready" animations be carried out and let them blend in with the rest of the swing. That would cut out a lot of unnecessary part of arc trail...

Here is the idea in an image taken from the video of this previous comment:

I'm not even talking about a total rebuild of the animations... but that a revamp isn't even a possibility... oh boy.

 

[OurGloriousLeader]

I did bring it up internally back then too. Basically for the swing arcs to be reduced even further we would have to adjust the animations at this point. I did push it quite a bit with the last swing arc update, where I made them deal 10% damage on like 85% progress (of the animation) and then faded it out comepletly. Before that (since its a curve) the damage already gets reduced the further away from the perfect hit arc you are as we all know.

Design wise we are blocked to push this any further if the animations wont change, which I dont know if it will happen (doubt it though).

Thanks Nin3 for all the hard work pushing for good changes internally, not just these but all the other changes, it's a shame that significant animation changes weren't allowed (especially considering how early they were identified as issues).

I suspect we'll eventually see a mod with much improved combat animations, which is fine but mods are a barrier between new players and the community.

 

[jon01]

 

[Roy1012]

 

[Terco_Viejo]

I raise the ante :

 

[OurGloriousLeader]

I raise the ante :

This is what I don't get, the huge swing arcs and tiny friendly unit capsules not only suck for multiplayer, they make SP armies unable to attack half the time as well??

 

[Terco_Viejo]

This is what I don't get, the huge swing arcs and tiny friendly unit capsules not only suck for multiplayer, they make SP armies unable to attack half the time as well??

Oh my dear OGL...??

That is why I always appealed that this kind of animation fixes should always be applied across the board, both to MPs and SPs alike. Since the beginning of the MP alpha beta period (2019-2020) this problem has been persisting and appearing in parallel in SP since the beginning of the EA.

 

[Turnaround]

I raise the ante :

Would that count as a teamhit?

 

[Terco_Viejo]

Would that count as a teamhit?

No. But this problem has been ongoing since 2019 with the consequent inconsistencies it causes in the type of CQB combat. I've been looking for the thread but... it's been 84 years... I don't remember if it was Noudelle's or another prolific tester from that period who has a thread commenting the issue.