WHY?? why swings have to be 180* angle?

[jack786]

You can't outfootwork anybody since any hit has 180* hit angle. I walked behind a fresh recruit and he still hit me not even looking at me with the end of his sword swing -_-

 

[Danny5]

That's a feature unfortunately...

A lot of players do that tactic, where they run forward and you're chasing them, then they'll 180 swing and try to hit you

 

[Terco_Viejo]

The disproportionate arcs of swing have been a constant problem ever since the community, especially OGL among others, brought it to the attention to Taleworlds, who have been absolutely unwilling to address these obtuse swing angles,for both foot and mounted combat..

An essentially root game issue that to this day is still ongoing and presumably everlasting, persistent and endemic in the base game due to Taleworlds' inaction.

 

[Hans 77]

What? You don't like getting kills on opponents who aren't even in your field of view? OP, you my friend, are what the Taleworlds devs would call a 'Warband fossil' and 'hater' of Bannerlord.

Remember, the changes made to Bannerlord's combat (swing speed, animations, turncap, noob-friendly kicks) were because Warband's combat was "too ugly" and "too boring".

 

[Gibby Jr]

The disproportionate arcs of swing have been a constant problem ever since the community, especially OGL among others, brought it to the attention to Taleworlds, who have been absolutely unwilling to address these obtuse swing angles,for both foot and mounted combat..

An essentially root game issue that to this day is still ongoing and presumably everlasting, persistent and endemic in the base game due to Taleworlds' inaction.

Swing arcs are a serious but neglected issue. They contribute to messy and chaotic combat, as in large-scale combat players are often hitting or being hit by swings that would not land with more reasonable swing arcs. It is very frustrating to be hit by someone not even looking at you that clearly had no intention of hitting you. It also makes fighting in closed quarters difficult, as left and right swings become redundant, as they hit the objects around the player, and overheads become the only useful attack. It also creates situations where a person's attack deals damage very late into the arc, unreasonably so, where one would expect it to glance (it absolutely would in Warband).

This all makes it harder to play precisely with left and right swings and contributes to messy group combat.

 

[Terco_Viejo]

Swing arcs are a serious but neglected issue. They contribute to messy and chaotic combat, as in large-scale combat players are often hitting or being hit by swings that would not land with more reasonable swing arcs. It is very frustrating to be hit by someone not even looking at you that clearly had no intention of hitting you. It also makes fighting in closed quarters difficult, as left and right swings become redundant, as they hit the objects around the player, and overheads become the only useful attack. It also creates situations where a person's attack deals damage very late into the arc, unreasonably so, where one would expect it to glance (it absolutely would in Warband).

This all makes it harder to play precisely with left and right swings and contributes to messy group combat.

Exactly, the sad reality ??

I still don't understand how Taleworlds was so "irresponsible" to qualify it in a mild way, by not having taken advantage of the fan-dev synergy that emanated exuberantly from the testing platform that was Misteroutoftime's master server. There was the crème de la crème, as you well remember...

And speaking of group combat... the effects of Taleworlds' failure to fix the swing arcs properly will start to become palpable in the eyes of the more seasoned casual players in "the new battle mode" when they discover how they relate to the current friendly melee damage (team damage).

 

[Honcho]

agree is pretty dumb 180 swings should bounce off or do minimal damage

 

[Etonviper]

I can assure you that 95% of comp skirm players enjoy this feature. Once you understand how it works it’s a useful tool when handling multiple enemies.

 

[Goyyyio]

I can assure you that 95% of comp skirm players enjoy this feature. Once you understand how it works it’s a useful tool when handling multiple enemies.

Huhh handling multiple enemies was a thing in Warband too without this dumb issue

 

[Kripaz]

I can assure you that 95% of comp skirm players enjoy this feature. Once you understand how it works it’s a useful tool when handling multiple enemies.

I would like to know how you came up with that number?

 

[Gibby Jr]

I can assure you that 95% of comp skirm players enjoy this feature. Once you understand how it works it’s a useful tool when handling multiple enemies.

Lol

 

[Terco_Viejo]

@NIN3, maybe you forgot to answer here or here (you are probably very busy lately) but I would really like to know (if possible) if this problem is going to be solved (fixing animations with angle cuts) in the short term by Taleworlds or just the design guidelines do not contemplate such a change.

 

[Krisee]

I can assure you that 95% of comp skirm players enjoy this feature. Once you understand how it works it’s a useful tool when handling multiple enemies.

Actually agree kinda, because there is no working chambers, you can only defend versus multiple enemies unless you abuse this 'feature'.

 

[TheCrusader5]

Maybe it's just because its what I'm used to but I dont have any issues with swing arcs

 

[Runcop]

Idm the swing arcs I have a problem with chambers from behind which I guess could relate to swing arcs

 

[Gibby Jr]

Actually agree kinda, because there is no working chambers, you can only defend versus multiple enemies unless you abuse this 'feature'.

There are also issues with opponents being able to spam attacks too quickly (they are not stunned enough after their attack has been blocked) in 2v1s, which make it extremely difficult for the 1 to return an attack unless they kite obnoxiously. However, other issues like that and problems with chambers do not mean swing arcs should remain as they are to excuse the shortcomings in those areas.

I understand once you’re used to the BL swing arcs you learn to just not face your opponent when you want to hit them because the arc is so wide it’ll land anyway, but that is not intuitive for either new players or people coming from Warband. The arcs should be tight enough that you do actually have to look at the person you want to hit.

Go to 41 seconds on this video:

Spoiler

I don’t look at the opponent to my right as I do a right swing at him for 2 reasons. 1) I have to angle myself like that to avoid hitting my teammate because of how wide the arc is. 2) Even if I miss the enemy to my right the arc is so long it’ll carry on and damage the enemy to my left. To me it’s kinda ridiculous that I am not only forced to be that inaccurate because of the swing arc but that I am actually rewarded for doing so, as no matter what my attack is going to land on one of two enemies in that situation.

 

[Zdzichu]

You should try to play battle. The number of team hits and teamkills are huge. You have to use upper swings almost all the time. These animations are too wide, hitting from behind your back doesn't help
blocking attacks when your opponent is trying to attack your back after missed kick isn't also a problem
the main counter to kicks is the kick

 

[NIN3]

@NIN3, maybe you forgot to answer here or here (you are probably very busy lately) but I would really like to know (if possible) if this problem is going to be solved (fixing animations with angle cuts) in the short term by Taleworlds or just the design guidelines do not contemplate such a change.

I did bring it up internally back then too. Basically for the swing arcs to be reduced even further we would have to adjust the animations at this point. I did push it quite a bit with the last swing arc update, where I made them deal 10% damage on like 85% progress (of the animation) and then faded it out comepletly. Before that (since its a curve) the damage already gets reduced the further away from the perfect hit arc you are as we all know.

Design wise we are blocked to push this any further if the animations wont change, which I dont know if it will happen (doubt it though).

 

[Terco_Viejo]

I did bring it up internally back then too. Basically for the swing arcs to be reduced even further we would have to adjust the animations at this point. I did push it quite a bit with the last swing arc update, where I made them deal 10% damage on like 85% progress (of the animation) and then faded it out comepletly. Before that (since its a curve) the damage already gets reduced the further away from the perfect hit arc you are as we all know.

Design wise we are blocked to push this any further if the animations wont change, which I dont know if it will happen (doubt it though).

Thank you for officially shedding light on something that many of us already suspected would happen (not happen in this case). This was already tuned back in the day:

collision_check_starting_percent + collision_check_ending_percent
+
<managed_core_parameter id="SwingCombatSpeedGraphZeroProgressValue" value="X"/>
<managed_core_parameter id="SwingCombatSpeedGraphFirstMaximumPoint" value="X"/>
<managed_core_parameter id="SwingCombatSpeedGraphSecondMaximumPoint" value="X"/>
<managed_core_parameter id="SwingCombatSpeedGraphOneProgressValue" value="X"/>

I guess you have squeezed as much as possible those parameters and they don't give out anymore. Now almost at the "supposed" pre-final release it seems impossible to modify those animations (it is not of course) but you have had >2 years and you (Taleworlds) have looked the other way as if the problem was going to disappear by itself. I have a very good memory of you (NIN3) in the Beta period (in the Betalords group) and how proactive and close you were... I guess now you are much more tightly bound.

A pity of situation

Thanks for your time and for the info, big hug.

 

[jon01]

Maybe it's just because its what I'm used to but I dont have any issues with swing arcs

That's because you're spamming overheads almost all of the time (judging by the Skirmish matches you've streamed on Twitch), and you were complaining about overhead swings not hitting when they should do plenty of times too.

This thread's topic was in fact discussed back in 2009 during Warband's beta (before some important combat changes were made).

Ares: "What we have now in the way of sideways cuts are huge street-cleaning swipes. I've often clipped a stray horse that happened to run behind or to the side of me and did no damage to the enemy in front that I intended to hit (needless to say I died after that ). I've had teammates run into my attacks from behind and stop them allowing the enemy a free chance to hit me."

Lazarou: "I think diagonal cuts would be best."

Ares: "Basically, the animations should have strikes that focus on the enemy in front."

Plazek: "They just need to implement "weapon hot zones" and "strike hot zones" better."

Berserker: "If any form of ff gets in the game the huge street cleaning attacks will add nothing but frustration to the game."

Armagan: "Many thanks for the suggestions and feedback. I agree with these points in general."

Ares: "Thank you so much! You are fast becoming the best developers to me! (it is a pleasure to beta test with developers like you)"

Armagan: "The pleasure is all mine to develop the game with such wonderful players."

https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/suggestion-huge-street-cleaning-swing-attacks-and-turning-into-attacks.87546/

I wish these kind of heart-warming, pro-community practices had been continued for M&B2's development during all the years (imagine the progress that would've been made) instead of what's mostly ended up being the complete opposite. To be fair, not all of the ideas in the rest of that thread sounded as good, but those that made it into the final game worked really well. Comparing the old beta animations to the final version, it really did wonders for the combat and gameplay.