Why was Old Troop Assignment System removed?

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AngryPanCake

Veteran
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The old assignment system is gone! We can no longer assign the troops anymore, it seems it is all done automatically, which causes companions to be assigned without our input.
I've always considered Companions as "personal body guards" and assigned them to a category by themselves in order the have them "Follow Me".
Even though my current experience in the game has not been very extensive, I did not think there was anything wrong with the pre 1.7.0 version and did not read any posts complaining about it. Was there any particular reason it was removed?

PS: I posted this in the e1.7.0 thread, but was directed to this subforum. This is not really a suggestion, but more like a question as to why it was removed since there was nothing wrong with it!
 

CptMuppet

Sergeant
The new system working together with the old one would be perfect. Both could supplement each other because they can serve very different functions.
The new one is simply amazing at managing main troop divisions and at merging different troops types which have similar equipment and purpose in the battle by using filters. On the other hand, the old system can do things that the new one can't, like putting only specific troop types and heroes in different divisions, or making possible to use troops from your party separately from the rest of the allied army.
The new system is a great addition to the game, but removing the old one makes some play styles hard or even impossible to achieve.

Btw, I think adding more euquipment filters in the new system would make it even better. For example adding opposite filters of the existing ones, like "prioritize troops without throwing weapons" or "prioritize troops with light armor". Also it feels like there are missing filters for bows and crossbows, especially because you can make joint division for infantry and archers.
 

Kovvers

Recruit
I've been finding this frustrating too. Training my lower tier troops up to max level is satisfying and I used to put the troops i wanted to fight into specific groups. Then i could tell my max level troops not to fight against looters and let the lower tier ones earn their stripes and get the XP. I don't feel able to do that now, you can select heavy armour for a group but it doesnt seem to work 100% how i want it to and i assume it will select more than the top tier troops.

I wondered if just having a selection for say 'reserves' or 'group 9' in the party screen would mean people could put companions and other troops they dont want to fight into this group, and then we can just leave them at the back when they are not needed.

Or maybe as well as 'heavy armour' and 'polearm' there was a preference selector for max level troops in the new group manager?
 

CptMuppet

Sergeant
I've been finding this frustrating too. Training my lower tier troops up to max level is satisfying and I used to put the troops i wanted to fight into specific groups. Then i could tell my max level troops not to fight against looters and let the lower tier ones earn their stripes and get the XP.
I had been leveling troops exactly the same way. Also, I usually had all my troops in groups from 5 to 8 when I was leading an army. I was usally using it to get as much loot and as many prisoners as possible for myself, and for minimizing troop losses for other parties when I had high Medicine level.

I wondered if just having a selection for say 'reserves' or 'group 9' in the party screen would mean people could put companions and other troops they dont want to fight into this group, and then we can just leave them at the back when they are not needed.
I don't think one group would be sufficient. I mean it would be ok for what you have wrote here, but overall it would be still not enough for some uses in my opinion.
I would like to have all unit groups back in "Party screen" and have it working together with the new Order of Battle system. Also, I definitely would not mind additional "group 9" as a bonus to that.


If I could choose how Order of Battle system is made, I would choose the old groups system as "default formation" for the new system.
The way I see it, the player could put troops into all groups using "party screen", and at the start of the battle the new system would kick in and treat it as "default formation" which you could modify or reset to after modifying it. Also, the player would have an option to save and load modified troops formation for next battles, and to reset it to mentioned earlier "default formation" if they wouldn't like it anymore.
 
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DeMavric

Recruit
Dear Dev Santa: The "old" assignment should be brought back in. At least for companions/family members. Thank you.
 

ldgarrett

Veteran
In response to @MRay 's request to post here:

Absolutely, positively, without any exceptions, -all- Heroes in the party need to be assignable to specific formations irrespective of what the game code determines from their loadout as their unit classification. Family and Companions.

Firmly believe that an extra, "reserve", formation should exist that is not sorted by classification and can have any unit and especially any Hero assigned to it.

Would argue additionally that the "intentionally hybrid" formation types include **2nd Edit: A SINGLE... (you can make these now, but can't have only one apparently)** melee cavalry riding with horse archers (or vice versa), as that choice is like placing polearm troops in a foot archer formation; an intentional strengthening of the formation against enemy melee encounters. Javelin-armed melee cavalry already follow many of the AI tactics rules of horse archers, most pure melee cavalry can not be trusted to freely engage into melee by themselves unless they are in overwhelming numbers, and there are very strong tactical command schemes that place -all- mounted troops in a single player-led formation (f1->f2) to control their manuoever precisely while the foot troops are more generally deployed and advanced as formations.

If more precise information as to tactical "sets" and their use with the available orders would be of assistance, please contact me directly. Accumulating data and experience about just that was one of the goals in each of my last (e1.6.x versions) lengthy playthroughs. I can be reached here or through STEAM messages under the same name, and my hours in game and screenshots are best available there.

edit: note I am 100% a single-player gamer. None of what I do applies to MP.
 
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AngryPanCake

Veteran
Now lords/companions are a different story. Since they're more fluid with their equipment and they're unique, they don't have to conform to the formation types. We can handle them in a different way. This doesn't have to be in the party screen, we can add a separate UI in the formation cards that you could use to put unassigned heroes in that formation as troops. We can save the assigned formation of the hero and not let them be affected from the sliders. I am, personally, not against this and would love to bring it up internally. That's why I asked for a suggestion post, here. If you feel the assignment of heroes to specific formation as troops, not just captains, would be a good addition feel free to leave a comment in that post.

I think this sounds like a great idea if we are doing away with the old Party Screen Assignment system.

I think what I am gathering from the multiple threads/posts about this new OoB and the loss of the old assignment system is that, many players like to assign their Companions a certain way in order to either protect them or inversely, use them to earn XP in order to upgrade them.
Same for assigning the rest of the units. I suspect many of us separate lower tier units from higher ones in order to use lower units to attack looters in order to also earn XP to be upgraded to higher units...or something like that.

At this time, I see the new OoB system being limited to 8 formations that probably stem from the old 8 categories in the Party screen. So my questions are:
Is this a hard limit at this time?
Would it be possible to have let's say 10 formations, which will include the current 8 just as they are with their current filters, and add an additional 2?

The extra two formations can be used as follows:
- Formation IX (9) reserved for Companions/Nobles if they are not used as formation leaders.
- Formation X (10) will be the same as the other 8 with the top filter (inf, Arch, Cav, HA...etc) being the same and the bottom right filter changed to Tiers instead of weapons.
So, if I am attacking looters and I want to only use my low tier Melee troops, I will set up the formation to Melee (top filter) and select Tiers 1, 2 and 3 (bottom right filter). If I want to help my archers earn XP for upgrades, then I do the same thing: Select Archers for top filter and Tiers 1,2 and 3 for bottom right filter so I can order Formation X to charge or Advance and engage the looters.

Thank you
 

Niederath

Sergeant
+ 1 Having a seperate formation group in the OoB, where you can put squeashy companions like your dedicated surgeon or for using them as a personal bodyguard would be nice!
 

Aeddes

Recruit
Thank you I'll relay this internally for discussion ?
Add more options on the "+" tab.
Currently we have: heavy armor, polearms, thrown and shields.
Light armor, one handed, bow, crossbow and two handed please.

This way, we can set light armor plus polearms/one hander for example, and split recruits.
 

Ling*

Knight at Arms
+1 the old feature was quite useful for creating custom "squads" of units that allowed the player to have better control over the positioning of troops on the battlefield. For example I could have a squad of just levy crossbowman, and another squad of just archers and have them positioned on separate locations on the battlefield for crossfire. Overall the new system is great, but restoring this particular functionality is a must have.
 

guims79

Recruit
I created a post and have been sent here for the same reason.
+1 about mixing former and new system.

I like to separate high end soldiers from low end ones. To send only the noobs to the fight, so they gain xp faster.

I like to separate archers and crossbowmen. basicaly because even if they 're both ranged fighters, they're completely different and I don't use them the same way.

The new system could be perfect if we had the possibility to select what type of unit in a group. as in the previous version. Not only by %.
 

CptMuppet

Sergeant
I didn't understand correctly earlier that this is the thread in which all suggestions about new OoB system have to be posted, and I incorrectly posted some sugestions in the other thread. So, I think it would be ok if quote now my message here to have all suggestions in one place.

All in all, assigning formations to normal troops in the party screen is conflicting with changes made in OoB that's why it's removed.
As response to that I wrote the following sugestions:
Well, after all it is not about keeping group selection in the party screen, but about keeping functionalities it provides. Is there a possibilty to do it by adding more filters to the groups then?


Here are my ideas of two new filters which should bring back functionalities that were lost by removing the old system:

#1: Troop type/hero filter.
Description / functionality
- This filter would be in a form of a list that contains specific troop types and heroes which are valid type for picked group. On this list a player would be able to allow, or disallow putting into the group certain troop types and heroes by selecting them on the list, and using group's sliders after that. There would be a separate lists like this for every unit control group. By default, all troop types and heroes compatible with the type of the parent group, would be allowed on those lists. Changing overall main unit type of the group, like from "infantry" to "cavalry", would reset the list and would kick out invalid troop types from this group. Disallowing troop types also would kick them out from the group, after accepting filter changes by closing the list. Also, it could be useful to add a button for allowing/disallowing all troop types which are located on the list.

Example / user story - The player starts some easy battle and wants to create a new group with only imperial recruits and some heroes to level them up faster.
The player picks group 8 and creates there a new melee infantry group, then clicks on the "troop type list" located in this group. After that, the list extends itself, and shows every unit type and hero under player's command which counts as melee infantry.
The player has in his/her party Imperial Legionaries, Imperial Recruits, Imperial Cataphracts, two brothers and a sister with only melee weapons equipped, and few companions with bows. All heroes in the party are on foot, no horses equipped for them.
In that scenario, opened "troop type list" for group 8 shows only legionaries, recruits and all three main hero's siblings - two brothers and one sister. All of these listed troops and heroes are marked as "allowed". At this point, moving any sliders from melee infantry groups can put these troops and heroes into group 8. As we know, the player doesn't want Legionaries in this group, so he/she finds legionaries on the list and clicks on them to disallow them in this group. The player also clicks on the main hero's sister in the list, because she doesn't have good armor yet and might easily die in a fight. Legionaries and main hero's sister are now marked as "disallowed" and cannot be put into this group. After that, the player closes the list which makes this filter's changes to be applied to the unit group.
Now, the player adds only wanted units into group 8 by simply moving its slider to the farthest right position. He/she could also have done that by moving to the farthest left slider of group 1, in which all infantry melee units were put at the start of the battle.

#2: Hero party/other parties filter.
Description / functionality
- This filter would be useful in battles in which the player can command troops from the other parties, like being the leader of an army for example. It would allow the player to separate his/her troops and heroes from the troops of the other parties. This filter could have three or two states picked separately for each group: "allow only troops from own party", "allow any troops", and optional "allow only troops from the other parties". "Allow any troops" would be the starting, default state.

Example / user story - A player is leading an army and wants to minimize loses in a big battle. The idea he/she has is to take the first, hardest hit in the battle with his/her own infantry units, because high Medicine skill gets them mostly unconscious instead of getting them killed. Other lords' Medicine skill is significantly lower which makes their units more vulnerable.
The player wants to make an infantry group responsible for tanking most of the damage by putting all his/her Imperial Legionaries into group 8. The problem is, the other lords in the army also have Legionaries in their parties. Luckly, there is a filter for this. The player sets it to "Allow only troops from own party" for group 8, and doesn't change it for the other groups leaving their filters on the default state "Allow all troops".
Just like in the earlier example, moving the slider of the group is all the player needs to do after setting the right filter.



I think this would be a better solution than just adding one group for heroes and calling it a day, but maybe I am wrong. I am open to other ideas. I also think that proposed by others addition of one group for heroes still would be better than leaving new Order of Battle system at the current state.
 

NPC99

Baron
M&BWBWF&SVC
Now lords/companions are a different story. Since they're more fluid with their equipment and they're unique, they don't have to conform to the formation types. We can handle them in a different way. This doesn't have to be in the party screen, we can add a separate UI in the formation cards that you could use to put unassigned heroes in that formation as troops. We can save the assigned formation of the hero and not let them be affected from the sliders. I am, personally, not against this and would love to bring it up internally. That's why I asked for a suggestion post
Yes please. This would be great.
 

Nordous

Sergeant Knight
I think we also really need an option for off-combat assignment - the troops and heroes we want in the party, but not on the battlefield, so they could safely get a fracture of exp while staying out of harm's way for numerous reasons, like, rest and heal, give passive bonuses or just accumulate exp.
 
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CptMuppet

Sergeant
I think we also really need an option for off-combatassignment - the troops and heroes we want in the party, but not on the battlefield, so they could safely get a fracture of exp while staying out of harm's way for numerous reasons, like, rest and heal, give passive bonuses or just accumulate exp.
It would be a nice feature. Especially for heroes that are kept in the party just to fullfill roles of scout, quartermaster, smith etc., and don't have high combat skills nor good equipment.
 

Vazerio

Recruit
I am also responding to Mray's invitation to comment here about the old troop assignment system.

I will echo what others have said and wish for a way to assign companions and specific troop types to something like an auxiliary unit.
I have always liked to keep my physician companion in reserve and out of combat.
I also enjoyed assigning Beni Zilal royal guard and Khan's Guard to a unique(ish) troop type (VIII) that was otherwise absent from my army so that I could turn command of all other units over to AI sergeants and keep those specific troops under my character's command as a retinue guard.
 

Dogacan

Regular
WB
I agree that changes needed to be made to the old system. Around the mid-game you start adding varying units to your party which kept needing to be put in a specific formation in the party screen. However, currently the new system is not working as I imagine it was intended to work. Some (around 20~25%) of the 2-handed infantry formations are joining shield infantry formations and vice versa. The same thing happens when you try to seperate heavily armored unit formations and lightly armored formations. Currently even some of the Tier 1 infantry units are joining Tier 5 infantry formations. All of the above happens with horsemen/horse archers as well. Also completely agree that heroes should be able to have their own formation. (y)
 
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